Emperor of Thorns (The Broken Empire Trilogy #3) by Mark Lawrence (SPOILERS)

[Mark Lawrence]

I like Jorg, I know he's not a good person, but he's a good character to have a story written about, and that's what makes an author great. Can't wait to see what's next.

That would be Prince of Fools - out in June

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18191460-prince-of-fools

[Captain Sheepf*cker]

That would be Prince of Fools - out in June

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18191460-prince-of-fools

Love how it already has 4.83 stars. That someone gave it 4 is hysterical. Fucking Goodreads. Those people are idiots. On a side note, can't wait for this. Sounds great.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

According to the new blurb from Prince of Fools (The Red Queen's War #1),Jorg Ancrath will be making an appearance in it :

From the critically acclaimed author of THE BROKEN EMPIRE series comes a brilliant new epic fantasy series, THE RED QUEEN’S WAR.

The Red Queen is old but the kings of the Broken Empire fear her as they fear no other.

Her grandson Jalan Kendeth is a coward, a cheat and a womaniser; and tenth in line to the throne. While his grandmother shapes the destiny of millions, Prince Jalan pursues his debauched pleasures. Until he gets entangled with Snorri ver Snagason, a huge Norse axe man, and dragged against his will to the icy north.

In a journey across half the Broken Empire, Jalan flees minions of the Dead King, agrees to duel an upstart prince named Jorg Ancrath, and meets the ice witch, Skilfar, all the time seeking a way to part company with Snorri before the Norseman’s quest leads them to face his enemies in the black fort on the edge of the Bitter Ice.

Experience does not lend Jalan wisdom; but here and there he unearths a corner of the truth. He discovers that they are all pieces on a board, pieces that may be being played in the long, secret war the Red Queen has waged throughout her reign, against the powers that stand behind thrones and nations, and for higher stakes than land or gold.

http://www.harpercollins.co.uk/Titles/84791/prince-of-fools-mark-lawrence-9780007531530

[red snow]

that blurb feels more like a synopsis. Gives away a bit too much in my opinion.

[Jussi]

A different blurb from the American publisher Ace:

Hailed as “epic fantasy on a George R. R. Martin scale, but on speed” (Fixed on Fantasy), the Broken Empire trilogy introduced a bold new world of dark fantasy with the story of Jorg Ancrath’s devastating rise to power. Now, Mark Lawrence returns to the Broken Empire with the tale of a less ambitious prince…

The Red Queen is old but the kings of the Broken Empire dread her like no other. For all her reign, she has fought the long war, contested in secret, against the powers that stand behind nations, for higher stakes than land or gold. Her greatest weapon is The Silent Sister—unseen by most and unspoken of by all.

The Red Queen’s grandson, Prince Jalan Kendeth—drinker, gambler, seducer of women—is one who can see The Silent Sister. Tenth in line for the throne and content with his role as a minor royal, he pretends that the hideous crone is not there. But war is coming. Witnesses claim an undead army is on the march, and the Red Queen has called on her family to defend the realm. Jal thinks it’s all a rumor—nothing that will affect him—but he is wrong.

After escaping a death trap set by the Silent Sister, Jal finds his fate magically intertwined with a fierce Norse warrior. As the two undertake a journey across the Empire to undo the spell, encountering grave dangers, willing women, and an upstart prince named Jorg Ancrath along the way, Jalan gradually catches a glimmer of the truth: he and the Norseman are but pieces in a game, part of a series of moves in the long war—and the Red Queen controls the board.

http://edelweiss.abovethetreeline.com/ProductDetailPage.aspx?group=related&sku=0425268780

[red snow]

Can anyone remember if Jalan has been in the "thorns" books? I'm terrible with names so have possibly forgotten or are these new Jorg anecdotes?

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Can anyone remember if Jalan has been in the "thorns" books? I'm terrible with names so have possibly forgotten or are these new Jorg anecdotes?

Nope,no Jalan in the first trilogy.According to the blurb above, the only characters from the 1st trilogy who will be appearing in the new series are Jorg and the Silent Sister.

[red snow]

Nope,no Jalan in the first trilogy.According to the blurb above, the only characters from the 1st trilogy who will be appearing in the new series are Jorg and the Silent Sister.

I thought the Red Queen was in Vyene? Maybe not. I guess the silent sister could have been turning up throughout Jorg's trilogy without us knowing ;)

[Calibandar]

Currently reading "King of Thorns" and quite enjoying the flow of this.

Good characters, and that makes a book. Definitely feels like Abercrombie in terms of the group traveling aspect.

The new book out next year has a cool synopsis as well. Huge Norse axe warrior in this world, I can see it.

[The Pita]

I loved the book, hated the end. For a lot of the reasons posted here.

Jorg was probably the most blatantly evil protagonist I've ever read of. You can have him work for the good of the world, close the gate to magic, do any of the things he did in the books. But softening him ruins the main success of the trilogy. I remember the author saying some time before book 2 came out that he wanted to see how evil he could make a character and still have the audience root for him. The brilliance of what he achieved was that in the second book, the person you thought was the antagonist was actually a very good and decent person and yet you still rooted for Jorg. Turning him into a loving, caring person, along with the Dead King (and BTW I don't mind the Dead King being William), is problematic. If the Dead King and Jorg could've cooperated when they were evil, that would've been a great ending. But even with a main character who was going a little soft at the center, this ending was irritating.

[Mark Lawrence]

AncalagonTheBlack, on 22 Oct 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Nope,no Jalan in the first trilogy.According to the blurb above, the only characters from the 1st trilogy who will be appearing in the new series are Jorg and the Silent Sister.

I thought the Red Queen was in Vyene? Maybe not. I guess the silent sister could have been turning up throughout Jorg's trilogy without us knowing ;)

There are a number of appearances from the Broken Empire trilogy in the new book, I guess the blurb just mentioned highlights.

And yes, the Red Queen is mentioned in the earlier books and appears at the end of Emperor.

[red snow]

I loved the book, hated the end. For a lot of the reasons posted here.

Jorg was probably the most blatantly evil protagonist I've ever read of. You can have him work for the good of the world, close the gate to magic, do any of the things he did in the books. But softening him ruins the main success of the trilogy. I remember the author saying some time before book 2 came out that he wanted to see how evil he could make a character and still have the audience root for him. The brilliance of what he achieved was that in the second book, the person you thought was the antagonist was actually a very good and decent person and yet you still rooted for Jorg. Turning him into a loving, caring person, along with the Dead King (and BTW I don't mind the Dead King being William), is problematic. If the Dead King and Jorg could've cooperated when they were evil, that would've been a great ending. But even with a main character who was going a little soft at the center, this ending was irritating.

I still don't really buy the "he went soft". He killed a bunch of innocent guards to ensure the safety of his son? That's tough love and even the most evil of people can still be protective of their offspring (possibly moreso than an average person in terms of what length they'll go to).

Plus it was Jorg's force of will that was key. While this lead him to do evil things it's also what allowed him to fix things and go against the rules. Could the Prince of Arrow have done this? Possibly, but the fact he was killed by his own brother highlighted this was a world where only the rulebreakers and ruthless survive.

[The Pita]

It's great that he killed people to protect his son. I don't mind a bit of a soft, mushy core. It's been properly developed for the past few books, with him feeling remorse for Degran and Gelleth, more and more decency to the people around him, his relationship with Gorgoth, and many other things. But the afterlife sequence (and the tone the story takes for that chapter and the one after) really bugged me. It was like the protagonist was suddenly replaced with a "typical" fantasy character.

[Frank Fitzpatrick]

Finished Prince yesterday, in near enough one sitting. Really enjoyed it. Started the second today and thus far I'm enjoying that too.

[PhoenixFlame]

I'm stoked for Jalan to bump into Jorg. In Emperor it was really cool reading the POV of the character hanging out with him. It's always refreshing to see a 1st-person character from someone else's perspective.

I don't think Jorg became too soft in the end, 'cause

It was set up long in advance how his brothers' deaths royally fucked him up. He might be a hardass but he's got cracks packed with ice. Also, the final bit was from the "copy's" POV. Modeled after Jorg, but it wasn't quite Jorg.

Ehehehe, I loaned my books to a friend. She texted me, "WTF Jorg you fucking little scamp." An apt description.

[Mark Lawrence]

I'm stoked for Jalan to bump into Jorg.

49 days to go ... It's 'interesting' waiting to see what people will make of a new character. On the plus side though, Robin Hobb finished the book yesterday and really liked it.

[Starkess]

49 days to go ... It's 'interesting' waiting to see what people will make of a new character. On the plus side though, Robin Hobb finished the book yesterday and really liked it.

Shameless name dropping. :P

(To be clear, that's a jealous smiley!)

[red snow]

49 days to go ... It's 'interesting' waiting to see what people will make of a new character. On the plus side though, Robin Hobb finished the book yesterday and really liked it.

Pat seemed to like it too. He also seemed pretty confident that Jalan would be a character everyone would like (or at least not be as divisive as Jorg).

[Mark Lawrence]

Pat seemed to like it too. He also seemed pretty confident that Jalan would be a character everyone would like (or at least not be as divisive as Jorg).

I always saw Jorg as a uniter! After all, the empire was broken, and what does he try to do? Rule all of it.

[red snow]

I always saw Jorg as a uniter! After all, the empire was broken, and what does he try to do? Rule all of it.

Fair enough within the book :) In terms of readers he's more divisive though. If only he could conquer the readers or threaten the naysayers into silence.

As an aside, do you know if you'll be signing stock for Forbidden planet this year? I've got 2 out of 3 books signed so should try and keep up the habit.