Khal Shaggydog Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Lets at least agree to one thing - dragons CANNOT be warged. (warging is for wolves and direwolves, cmon people).We don't know either way if they can be controlled by skinchangers, but I don't see why they would be completely off the table. I do, however, think it would be exceedingly hard, and exceedingly dangerous to try it. Like Varamyr with his polar bear, and Bran with Hodor, the stronger the beast, the harder they can fight off a skinchanger. The Starks are OK with their animals because they are connected beyond a normal skinchanger/beast relationship - but I would hesitate to try and jump into, say, Shaggydog, for fear that he would then come and psycho-attack me. It doesn't seem that the earlier Targs controlled their dragons by skinchanging, they seem to have more of Stark-direwolf connection with their dragons. (Although didn't Bran briefly jump into Shaggydog?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Chevrolet Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Magic did exist, but it was strengthened by the return of dragons, and the day dany hatched her dragons wasn't the return it started before that, as she had dragon dreams and felt the egg hot.Magic follows the dragons. Magic was still around, but mostly dormant, prior to Game of Thrones because the dragons were around, but mostly dormant, at that time. This happened to Brandon Stark very early in Game of Thrones:He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise.In other words, those dragons were dormant but stirring when all the early-Games of Thrones magic was starting to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya rules Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Dragons can only be warged under special circumstances. First, you must be a warg. Also, you must have faceless training. Most importantly, you must have a skinny sword that is inserted in the dragons rectum for steering control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where is Rickon Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 When Varamyr said that any creature that walks, swims or flies can be warged, I believe he meant ANY creature. Maybe he didn't know about the existence of the dragons, but he knew about the Others and didn't exclude them. And you can say that others are magical and even that they are flesh made of ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 When Varamyr said that any creature that walks, swims or flies can be warged, I believe he meant ANY creature. Maybe he didn't know about the existence of the dragons, but he knew about the Others and didn't exclude them. And you can say that others are magical and even that they are flesh made of ice.depends on whether he considers others as creatures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where is Rickon Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 What else can they be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 What else can they be?if others existed in our world I doubt people would consider them creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manting Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 There is no evidence that Hagon knew of the Others. They only reappear at the begining of GoT. Hagons training of Varamyr was 15 or so years before this so Hagon would not know of the others at that point - no one would.As for the dragons bringing back magic - Bloodraven has been performing magic for DECADES. Way before Illyrio gave Dany the eggs and before she was even born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illrede Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 That theory is a good one. It makes sense.I also think Drangons can be warged, but they need to be warged by an expert skinchanger. Bran couldn't do it by now.What's an expert Skinchanger? Bran's a strong skinchanger, but they're all different. Both Jon and Arya warg while waking and active. Bran wargs strongly, but he does it to get the heck out of Bran Stark. I'd pick both Jon and Arya warging a dragon enough to ride on it before I picked Bran for warging a dragon enough to control it outright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 When Varamyr said that any creature that walks, swims or flies can be warged, I believe he meant ANY creature.When does he say this? I can't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crannogman Pride Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 The Six-Skins prologue alluded to Jon warging Ghost. It forseshadowed nothing about warging dragons. I doubt the word dragon was used at any point of that chapter. And there's also no evidence--circumstantial or otherwise--that Dany warged Drogon or that she's shown any skin changing ability whatsoever.I bet that Dany has a skinchanger-like connection with Drogon. She was with the dragon since it was a baby, and she has dreams about Drogon too. She will continue to skinchange into Drogon, and others can bond with the other two dragons.There was a slight hint that Dany might have skinchanging ability, but it might be a stretch:"The khal had commanded the handmaid Irri to teach Dany to ride in the Dothraki fashion, but it was the filly who was her real teacher. The horse seemed to know her moods, as if they shared a single mind." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I don't see why it wouldn't be possible, I think Bran will do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Wyman Manderly Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 When does he say this? I can't find it.As close as I could find is...Varamyr could take any beast he wanted, bend them to his will, make their flesh his own. Dog or Wolf, bear or badger...Thistle, he thought.Page 11 first line and second lines.Earlier he recalls Haggon telling him " Some skins you never want to wear, boy. You won't like what you'd become." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Man Has Said Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 There have been a lot of issues addressed here, pardon me if I don't multiquote a bunch of posts.Can dragons be skinchanged? I don't know, I don't recall any textual evidence to show that they can't, so I would assume until we see something to the contrary that they can - although it may present some difficulties due to the fact that they're not naturally co-operative by nature.The most commonly and easily skinchanged beasts are dogs, wolves and direwolves. This is explained a couple times in the books. It is sufficiently more common that it has its own name - warging. I think it's because being pack animals they are predisposed to trying to please whowever they think of as the leader of the pack.It would be more difficult to control a shadowcat, probably even more an eagle, (but Orell had no trouble doing it) so you could assume that a dragon would be more difficult again, but probably less difficult than a human. Varamyr skinchanges a human with great difficulty in his prologue, and Bran does it easily with Hodor, without really even meaning to the first time. He has great natural ability.I think we've got enough clues to the nature of this talent (especially from Jojen) to distinguish between Bran's, Arya's and Jon's wolf dreams and true skin-changing. In the first case we see the human entering the animal's consciousness and seeing the world through their senses, but not really controlling it. Just going along for the ride, so to speak.Thanks to Jojen's tutelage, and his being aware what's going on (Arya has never even heard of warging - she does it, but she doesn't understand what it is and she's never consciously tried to control Nymeria) Bran has become a true skinchanger. He directs Summer's actions when in Summer, and he completely controls Hodor when he's in him.One other thing; we know from the Varamyr point of view that the 'magic' of skinchanging was just as strong north of the Wall before the red comet and the quickening of Dany's dragon eggs, so it's in a different category than the fire magic that Thoros and Mellisandre employ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahl Trollo Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 It matters because dragon brought back magic to the world so they are not like a polar bear or a wolf.I don't believe this is correct. It's taken from the Warlocks in Quarth, who have a viewpoint very centric to themselves, not a world view like the reader has.To them, yes, there was the birth of the dragons, and then their magic returned... but it goes back further than that. The Others awakening is the earliest thing we've been shown. After 8000 years they wake up... then we have a list of things happening from the dragons, to the warlocks, the awakening of another greenseer, the fire mage in the marketplace, the augmentation of production speed of wildfire, the glass candles, the list is pretty long.IMO even the wakening of the Others is just a part of this list - not the catalyst. Something has happened and it's building momentum. It started with what you'd consider 'magical beasts' and as it builds is bring back the more 'mundane' magic of men.People can dismiss that as they wish, but the fact remains that birth of dragons weren't the first magical event of the series... though it's easy to see that a group of people with only that as a point of reference would see it as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drexyon7 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Why wouldn't you be able to skinchange a dragon? If its because they're magical aren't giants and direwolves magic? you'd think Hodor's giants blood or Shaggydogs being a magical direwolf would've stopped Bran...Why would magic not work on other magic anyway?If its size Varamyr's polar bear is massive. It's described as bigger then at the very least the smaller of the two dragons so If you could Hulk out of being skinchanged I'm sure the polar bear would've done it by now. (That being said I do think you can break free of warging/skinchanging with brute power but the only beings i could imagine being capable of this are fully grown dragons/kracken.)If its intelligence/willpower? well Hodor is dim but he's capable of speech (not really) and understanding (kinda). That still puts him well above any of the dragon's intelligence levels.So add that to what Hagon said and I am 98% sure you can skinchange a dragon. The remaining 2% of uncertainty is because they're freaking dragons and that is a totally viable reason for them not to be able to get skinchanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pollo Loco Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 My guess is that at the very least they can shatter the connection forged through the use of a magic horn. I also guess that only Jon/Bloodraven and/or Bran/bloodraven can do it and/or once a dragon has been skin changed then other skin changers could do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Chevrolet Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Daenerys is already in the early stages of skinchanging all three dragons. The way they sense her moods is very similar to the descriptions of the early stages of skinchanging the direwolves. Also, I think Princess Rhaenys is experiencing her second life in Balerion the cat. Unless the Martells have a history of skinchanging, she got this ability from her father's side of the family. She only skin changed Balerion the cat because Balerion the dragon wasn't available by the time she came along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthRemembers10 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 It could be a possability but I'm not putting money on it. If they could Warg, I feel that only Targs could warg into them considering that dragons are made of fire and since Targs cant be burned that they should be the only ones that can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 It could be a possability but I'm not putting money on it. If they could Warg, I feel that only Targs could warg into them considering that dragons are made of fire and since Targs cant be burned that they should be the only ones that can.Targs can be burned :blushing:, although they are a bit more heat resistant then other humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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