Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

wolfmaid7

The Cold, The Wight and The Wight Walker

Recommended Posts

What "purge" though? What "imbalance"? What else is there to suggest that there is an unbalance or there needs to be a purge?

I am posting from my phone so I don't have the exact pages of the citation I want to use so forgive me .

Leaf in her speech to Bran while they were in the cave ( ADWD) indicates that there is/ was a balance at work between the magical creatures that inhabited the land before men came.

" the gods gave us long years but few numbers less we overrun the land like deer". She went on to list of the animals that are no more or dying off then she ends it with " the giants are almost gone, they who were our brothers and bane". A bane has two definitions ; death and keep from going further.

Later when men came to the land they massacred most of the COTF those who sang the song of earth. In the end they were left the haunted forest and beyond. Man had no natural predator so they reproduced multiplied and consumed. The long night was basically a cleansing of men from the land. Now the same conditions existing whereby "the cold" is making a comeback attracted no doubt to the amount of death.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am reposting my analysis from Redriver’s WINTER FELL thread since it discusses some of the points I have been following in this thread. I do wonder about the importance of the WIND and how it relates to the “cold” and the White Walkers. What follows are a few of my observations.

“WORDS ARE WIND”

The WIND is a powerful force in Martin’s series ASoI&F, and one I nearly overlooked because I instead focused on the mystery of the White Walkers appearing in conjunction with the COLD. After carefully deconstructing passages in search of recurring language patterns associated with WINTER, the weather, the White Walkers, and the COLD, I could not ignore the relationship that the wind shares with the enigma that is the old gods, that is the heart tree, and that is winter.

In AGoT, Bran finds peace in the godswood with his direwolf Summer. Sitting beneath the heart tree, Bran prays to the old gods, asking them to protect his brother Robb and his retainers on their journey south:

"If Robb has to go, watch over him," Bran entreated the old gods, as they watched him with the heart tree's red eyes, "and watch over his men, Hal and Quent and the rest, and Lord Umber and Lady Mormont and the other lords. And Theon too, I suppose. Watch them and keep them safe, if it please you, gods. Help them defeat the Lannisters and save Father and bring them home."

Immediately following Bran’s prayer, Martin personifies the wind by endowing it with a voice that “sighs” and with leaves that “stir” and “whisper”:

“A faint wind sighed through the godswood and the red leaves stirred and whispered. Summer bared his teeth.”

Evidently, as is often the case, an animal will sense a presence or hear a sound that a human might not be able to sense. Summer baring his teeth indicates that he hears “something” out-of-the-ordinary that Bran as yet cannot hear.

Osha makes her presence known by asking Bran:

"You hear them, boy?"

AND

"They are my gods too . . . Beyond the Wall, they are the only gods."

Bran quizzes Osha: "Tell me what you meant, about hearing the gods."

"You asked them and they're answering. Open your ears, listen, you'll hear."

Bran listened. "It's only the wind," he said after a moment, uncertain. "The leaves are rustling."

"Who do you think sends the wind, if not the gods? . . . They see you, boy. They hear you talking. That rustling, that's them talking back" (577).

Martin establishes that the old gods send the wind that causes the leaves in the heart tree to rustle, or to “talk back”. Bran consequently understands that he will need to develop the insight to understand what the old gods are trying to communicate to him. More importantly, once Bran becomes a part of the godhood, he will have the wind at his disposal to make his presence known.

In ADwD, when Bran first slips his skin to go into the roots of the weirwood, he finds himself looking through the eyes of the heart tree in Winterfell’s godswood where Bran sees his father cleaning Ice:

Lord Eddard Stark sat upon a rock beside the deep black pool in the godswood, the pale roots of the heart tree twisting around him like an old man’s gnarled arms. The greatsword Ice lay across his lap, and he was cleaning the blade with an oil cloth.

Winterfell,” Bran whispered.

His father looked up. “Who’s there?” he asked, turning . . .” (457).

Bran returns from his “weirnet” visit to tell his companions what he has experienced. Lord Brynden’s advice to Bran echoes that which Osha says to him in AGoT:

A man must know how to look before he can hope to see . . . Those were shadows of days past that you saw, Bran” (ADwD 458). Then, Lord Brynden explains that “time” is different for trees. Regardless, Bran insists his father heard him, to which BR says, “He heard a whisper on the wind, a rustling amongst the leaves” (ADwD 458).

Bran sees his father in the “past”, which retards his abilities to speak with him.

So, is it possible that Bran’s powers exceed BR’s in that those whom he speaks to in the “present” might be able to hear what the rustling leaves have to say in real time?

Bran attends the wedding of Ramsay Bolton and “fake” Arya by watching through the eyes of the weirwood, from which he observes the mummer’s farce of a wedding. It is Theon who notices the heart tree’s expression, presenting a far different countenance from the “long and melancholy” features it wears in scenes depicted in AGoT.

“The weirwoods carved red eyes stared down at them, its great red mouth open as if to laugh. In the branches overhead a raven quorked” (ADwD 488). The mouth indicating a laugh suggests that at least Bran can see some humor in the blasphemy playing out in the godswood. That is, Bran IS behind the weirwood “mask”. Obviously, Bran has some magical control over certain natural elements, and in the “Winterfell” POV in ADwD, Bran is a skilled “multi-tasker” – Bran is in the trees, the wind, the whispering leaves, the crows, the ravens, the weirwood, etc. Perhaps Martin limits Bran’s POV’s so that his readers can infer the lordling’s progress in exercising his newly conceived powers – what if Bran can command MORE THAN ONE “essence” at a time? It seems likely, especially since Arya can be in both a “cat” and in “herself”, as evident when she divulges the identity of the person who has been beating her in the HoB&W.

Moreover, Bran commands the attention of Theon Greyjoy, who is aware of supernatural forces that he suspects are taunting him. But the mischievous entity controlling the winds is Bran, and he has a bit of fun tormenting his late father’s ward, the turncloak who betrayed the Starks.

“It had been a lifetime since any god had heard him. He did not know who he was, or what he was, why he was still alive why he had ever been born.

Theon,” a voice seemed to whisper.

His head snapped up. “Who said that?” All he could see were the trees and the fog that covered them. The voice had been as faint as rustling leaves, as cold as hate. A god’s voice, or a ghost’s? How many died the day that he took Winterfell? How many more the day he lost it? The day that Theon Greyjoy died to be reborn as Reek. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with shriek.

Suddenly he did not want to be here.

Once outside the godswood, the cold descended on him like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth. He lowered his head into the wind and made for the Great Hall, hastening after the long line of candles and torches. Ice crunches beneath his boots, and a sudden gust pushed back his hood as if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers, hungry to gaze upon his face” (489).

Martin describes the “cold” descending upon Theon “like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth.” The simile comparing the cold to a wolf definitely suggests a very STARK influence in the godswood. The airy force which is commanded by Bran seemingly taunts Theon in a mischievous way that definitely hints at Bran.

Note that a “sudden gust” [of wind], which IS Bran, pushes back Theon’s hood as “if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers” and the ghost is “hungry to gaze upon his face.”

I also wish to point out that the comparison of Bran to a “ghost” is significant: in AGoT, Bran envies Jon’s name choice for his direwolf: “Ghost”. This is, in part, due to Bran’s wish to be “a ghost”, an entity that is invisible while he can spy on others, which ironically comes to pass as Bran sits the weirwood throne.

Martin creates an eerie ambience in the godswood with the persistent mention of the color “grey” and the mists, and these “mists” appear in Bran’s three-eyed-crow dream in AGoT, wherein Martin describes a grey mist that surrounds and seemingly protects Bran until he returns to his bed, then it dissipates. Six times is the grey mist referenced in Bran’s dream, so the appearance of the mist indicates the presence of Bran and the three-eyed-crow.

“He had never seen the godswood like this, though – grey and ghostly, filled with warm mists and floating lights and whispered voices that seemed to come from everywhere and nowhere” (487)

“The mists were so thick that only the nearest trees were visible . . .”

“Then the mists parted, like the curtain opening at a mummer show to reveal some new tableau” (487).

I cannot help wondering if the WIND is a force that is part of Bran’s powers and that Bran, either consciously or unconsciously, is governing IT to a purpose.

One other note about the WIND: it appears that the WIND is also behind Jon turning back to find his direwolf Ghost:

“Halfway across the bridge, Jon pulled up suddenly.

“What is it, Jon?” their lord father asked.

“Can’t you hear it?”

BRAN COULD HEAR THE WIND IN THE TREES, the clatter of their hooves on the ironwood planks, the whimpering of his hungry pup. But Jon was listening to SOMETHING ELSE” (AGoT 20).

Apparently, the wind in the trees, which indicates the old gods, is the power that harkens Jon to return and to find his direwolf pup Ghost.

The oft-repeated expression “words are wind” takes on a deeper meaning IF the powers that are the old gods are, or will be using the wind to cause problems with drifting snows, as we see at Winterfell, the Wall, and Stannis’ army’s location.

Martin’s next novel THE WINDS OF WINTER also takes on a greater significance if, indeed, the wind is a power attributable to the old gods, Bran, and quite possibly, the WIND brings the COLD and THE OTHERS?

Now, if we parse the Prologue of AGoT, WIND is mentioned frequently, personified as having TEETH, FINGERS, and HOWLING. Martin, on many occasions, DESCRIBES THE WIND in terms of a WOLF – but I am just beginning to document the evidence, so I do not know where it will take me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am reposting my analysis from Redriver’s WINTER FELL thread since it discusses some of the points I have been following in this thread. I do wonder about the importance of the WIND and how it relates to the “cold” and the White Walkers. What follows are a few of my observations.

“WORDS ARE WIND”

The WIND is a powerful force in Martin’s series ASoI&F, and one I nearly overlooked because I instead focused on the mystery of the White Walkers appearing in conjunction with the COLD. After carefully deconstructing passages in search of recurring language patterns associated with WINTER, the weather, the White Walkers, and the COLD, I could not ignore the relationship that the wind shares with the enigma that is the old gods, that is the heart tree, and that is winter.

In AGoT, Bran finds peace in the godswood with his direwolf Summer. Sitting beneath the heart tree, Bran prays to the old gods, asking them to protect his brother Robb and his retainers on their journey south:

"If Robb has to go, watch over him," Bran entreated the old gods, as they watched him with the heart tree's red eyes, "and watch over his men, Hal and Quent and the rest, and Lord Umber and Lady Mormont and the other lords. And Theon too, I suppose. Watch them and keep them safe, if it please you, gods. Help them defeat the Lannisters and save Father and bring them home."

Immediately following Bran’s prayer, Martin personifies the wind by endowing it with a voice that “sighs” and with leaves that “stir” and “whisper”:

“A faint wind sighed through the godswood and the red leaves stirred and whispered. Summer bared his teeth.”

Evidently, as is often the case, an animal will sense a presence or hear a sound that a human might not be able to sense. Summer baring his teeth indicates that he hears “something” out-of-the-ordinary that Bran as yet cannot hear.

Osha makes her presence known by asking Bran:

"You hear them, boy?"

AND

"They are my gods too . . . Beyond the Wall, they are the only gods."

Bran quizzes Osha: "Tell me what you meant, about hearing the gods."

"You asked them and they're answering. Open your ears, listen, you'll hear."

Bran listened. "It's only the wind," he said after a moment, uncertain. "The leaves are rustling."

"Who do you think sends the wind, if not the gods? . . . They see you, boy. They hear you talking. That rustling, that's them talking back" (577).

Martin establishes that the old gods send the wind that causes the leaves in the heart tree to rustle, or to “talk back”. Bran consequently understands that he will need to develop the insight to understand what the old gods are trying to communicate to him. More importantly, once Bran becomes a part of the godhood, he will have the wind at his disposal to make his presence known.

In ADwD, when Bran first slips his skin to go into the roots of the weirwood, he finds himself looking through the eyes of the heart tree in Winterfell’s godswood where Bran sees his father cleaning Ice:

Lord Eddard Stark sat upon a rock beside the deep black pool in the godswood, the pale roots of the heart tree twisting around him like an old man’s gnarled arms. The greatsword Ice lay across his lap, and he was cleaning the blade with an oil cloth.

Winterfell,” Bran whispered.

His father looked up. “Who’s there?” he asked, turning . . .” (457).

Bran returns from his “weirnet” visit to tell his companions what he has experienced. Lord Brynden’s advice to Bran echoes that which Osha says to him in AGoT:

A man must know how to look before he can hope to see . . . Those were shadows of days past that you saw, Bran” (ADwD 458). Then, Lord Brynden explains that “time” is different for trees. Regardless, Bran insists his father heard him, to which BR says, “He heard a whisper on the wind, a rustling amongst the leaves” (ADwD 458).

Bran sees his father in the “past”, which retards his abilities to speak with him.

So, is it possible that Bran’s powers exceed BR’s in that those whom he speaks to in the “present” might be able to hear what the rustling leaves have to say in real time?

Bran attends the wedding of Ramsay Bolton and “fake” Arya by watching through the eyes of the weirwood, from which he observes the mummer’s farce of a wedding. It is Theon who notices the heart tree’s expression, presenting a far different countenance from the “long and melancholy” features it wears in scenes depicted in AGoT.

“The weirwoods carved red eyes stared down at them, its great red mouth open as if to laugh. In the branches overhead a raven quorked” (ADwD 488). The mouth indicating a laugh suggests that at least Bran can see some humor in the blasphemy playing out in the godswood. That is, Bran IS behind the weirwood “mask”. Obviously, Bran has some magical control over certain natural elements, and in the “Winterfell” POV in ADwD, Bran is a skilled “multi-tasker” – Bran is in the trees, the wind, the whispering leaves, the crows, the ravens, the weirwood, etc. Perhaps Martin limits Bran’s POV’s so that his readers can infer the lordling’s progress in exercising his newly conceived powers – what if Bran can command MORE THAN ONE “essence” at a time? It seems likely, especially since Arya can be in both a “cat” and in “herself”, as evident when she divulges the identity of the person who has been beating her in the HoB&W.

Moreover, Bran commands the attention of Theon Greyjoy, who is aware of supernatural forces that he suspects are taunting him. But the mischievous entity controlling the winds is Bran, and he has a bit of fun tormenting his late father’s ward, the turncloak who betrayed the Starks.

“It had been a lifetime since any god had heard him. He did not know who he was, or what he was, why he was still alive why he had ever been born.

Theon,” a voice seemed to whisper.

His head snapped up. “Who said that?” All he could see were the trees and the fog that covered them. The voice had been as faint as rustling leaves, as cold as hate. A god’s voice, or a ghost’s? How many died the day that he took Winterfell? How many more the day he lost it? The day that Theon Greyjoy died to be reborn as Reek. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with shriek.

Suddenly he did not want to be here.

Once outside the godswood, the cold descended on him like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth. He lowered his head into the wind and made for the Great Hall, hastening after the long line of candles and torches. Ice crunches beneath his boots, and a sudden gust pushed back his hood as if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers, hungry to gaze upon his face” (489).

Martin describes the “cold” descending upon Theon “like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth.” The simile comparing the cold to a wolf definitely suggests a very STARK influence in the godswood. The airy force which is commanded by Bran seemingly taunts Theon in a mischievous way that definitely hints at Bran.

Note that a “sudden gust” [of wind], which IS Bran, pushes back Theon’s hood as “if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers” and the ghost is “hungry to gaze upon his face.”

I also wish to point out that the comparison of Bran to a “ghost” is significant: in AGoT, Bran envies Jon’s name choice for his direwolf: “Ghost”. This is, in part, due to Bran’s wish to be “a ghost”, an entity that is invisible while he can spy on others, which ironically comes to pass as Bran sits the weirwood throne.

Martin creates an eerie ambience in the godswood with the persistent mention of the color “grey” and the mists, and these “mists” appear in Bran’s three-eyed-crow dream in AGoT, wherein Martin describes a grey mist that surrounds and seemingly protects Bran until he returns to his bed, then it dissipates. Six times is the grey mist referenced in Bran’s dream, so the appearance of the mist indicates the presence of Bran and the three-eyed-crow.

“He had never seen the godswood like this, though – grey and ghostly, filled with warm mists and floating lights and whispered voices that seemed to come from everywhere and nowhere” (487)

“The mists were so thick that only the nearest trees were visible . . .”

“Then the mists parted, like the curtain opening at a mummer show to reveal some new tableau” (487).

I cannot help wondering if the WIND is a force that is part of Bran’s powers and that Bran, either consciously or unconsciously, is governing IT to a purpose.

One other note about the WIND: it appears that the WIND is also behind Jon turning back to find his direwolf Ghost:

“Halfway across the bridge, Jon pulled up suddenly.

“What is it, Jon?” their lord father asked.

“Can’t you hear it?”

BRAN COULD HEAR THE WIND IN THE TREES, the clatter of their hooves on the ironwood planks, the whimpering of his hungry pup. But Jon was listening to SOMETHING ELSE” (AGoT 20).

Apparently, the wind in the trees, which indicates the old gods, is the power that harkens Jon to return and to find his direwolf pup Ghost.

The oft-repeated expression “words are wind” takes on a deeper meaning IF the powers that are the old gods are, or will be using the wind to cause problems with drifting snows, as we see at Winterfell, the Wall, and Stannis’ army’s location.

Martin’s next novel THE WINDS OF WINTER also takes on a greater significance if, indeed, the wind is a power attributable to the old gods, Bran, and quite possibly, the WIND brings the COLD and THE OTHERS?

Now, if we parse the Prologue of AGoT, WIND is mentioned frequently, personified as having TEETH, FINGERS, and HOWLING. Martin, on many occasions, DESCRIBES THE WIND in terms of a WOLF – but I am just beginning to document the evidence, so I do not know where it will take me.

I have to admit i never thought of the Wind as a driving force behind "the cold" and its comparison to the Wolf is pretty interesting. I like it especially seeing it is so prominent with the Starks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am reposting my analysis from Redriver’s WINTER FELL thread since it discusses some of the points I have been following in this thread. I do wonder about the importance of the WIND and how it relates to the “cold” and the White Walkers. What follows are a few of my observations.

“WORDS ARE WIND”

The WIND is a powerful force in Martin’s series ASoI&F, and one I nearly overlooked because I instead focused on the mystery of the White Walkers appearing in conjunction with the COLD. After carefully deconstructing passages in search of recurring language patterns associated with WINTER, the weather, the White Walkers, and the COLD, I could not ignore the relationship that the wind shares with the enigma that is the old gods, that is the heart tree, and that is winter.

In AGoT, Bran finds peace in the godswood with his direwolf Summer. Sitting beneath the heart tree, Bran prays to the old gods, asking them to protect his brother Robb and his retainers on their journey south:

"If Robb has to go, watch over him," Bran entreated the old gods, as they watched him with the heart tree's red eyes, "and watch over his men, Hal and Quent and the rest, and Lord Umber and Lady Mormont and the other lords. And Theon too, I suppose. Watch them and keep them safe, if it please you, gods. Help them defeat the Lannisters and save Father and bring them home."

Immediately following Bran’s prayer, Martin personifies the wind by endowing it with a voice that “sighs” and with leaves that “stir” and “whisper”:

“A faint wind sighed through the godswood and the red leaves stirred and whispered. Summer bared his teeth.”

Evidently, as is often the case, an animal will sense a presence or hear a sound that a human might not be able to sense. Summer baring his teeth indicates that he hears “something” out-of-the-ordinary that Bran as yet cannot hear.

Osha makes her presence known by asking Bran:

"You hear them, boy?"

AND

"They are my gods too . . . Beyond the Wall, they are the only gods."

Bran quizzes Osha: "Tell me what you meant, about hearing the gods."

"You asked them and they're answering. Open your ears, listen, you'll hear."

Bran listened. "It's only the wind," he said after a moment, uncertain. "The leaves are rustling."

"Who do you think sends the wind, if not the gods? . . . They see you, boy. They hear you talking. That rustling, that's them talking back" (577).

Martin establishes that the old gods send the wind that causes the leaves in the heart tree to rustle, or to “talk back”. Bran consequently understands that he will need to develop the insight to understand what the old gods are trying to communicate to him. More importantly, once Bran becomes a part of the godhood, he will have the wind at his disposal to make his presence known.

In ADwD, when Bran first slips his skin to go into the roots of the weirwood, he finds himself looking through the eyes of the heart tree in Winterfell’s godswood where Bran sees his father cleaning Ice:

Lord Eddard Stark sat upon a rock beside the deep black pool in the godswood, the pale roots of the heart tree twisting around him like an old man’s gnarled arms. The greatsword Ice lay across his lap, and he was cleaning the blade with an oil cloth.

Winterfell,” Bran whispered.

His father looked up. “Who’s there?” he asked, turning . . .” (457).

Bran returns from his “weirnet” visit to tell his companions what he has experienced. Lord Brynden’s advice to Bran echoes that which Osha says to him in AGoT:

A man must know how to look before he can hope to see . . . Those were shadows of days past that you saw, Bran” (ADwD 458). Then, Lord Brynden explains that “time” is different for trees. Regardless, Bran insists his father heard him, to which BR says, “He heard a whisper on the wind, a rustling amongst the leaves” (ADwD 458).

Bran sees his father in the “past”, which retards his abilities to speak with him.

So, is it possible that Bran’s powers exceed BR’s in that those whom he speaks to in the “present” might be able to hear what the rustling leaves have to say in real time?

Bran attends the wedding of Ramsay Bolton and “fake” Arya by watching through the eyes of the weirwood, from which he observes the mummer’s farce of a wedding. It is Theon who notices the heart tree’s expression, presenting a far different countenance from the “long and melancholy” features it wears in scenes depicted in AGoT.

“The weirwoods carved red eyes stared down at them, its great red mouth open as if to laugh. In the branches overhead a raven quorked” (ADwD 488). The mouth indicating a laugh suggests that at least Bran can see some humor in the blasphemy playing out in the godswood. That is, Bran IS behind the weirwood “mask”. Obviously, Bran has some magical control over certain natural elements, and in the “Winterfell” POV in ADwD, Bran is a skilled “multi-tasker” – Bran is in the trees, the wind, the whispering leaves, the crows, the ravens, the weirwood, etc. Perhaps Martin limits Bran’s POV’s so that his readers can infer the lordling’s progress in exercising his newly conceived powers – what if Bran can command MORE THAN ONE “essence” at a time? It seems likely, especially since Arya can be in both a “cat” and in “herself”, as evident when she divulges the identity of the person who has been beating her in the HoB&W.

Moreover, Bran commands the attention of Theon Greyjoy, who is aware of supernatural forces that he suspects are taunting him. But the mischievous entity controlling the winds is Bran, and he has a bit of fun tormenting his late father’s ward, the turncloak who betrayed the Starks.

“It had been a lifetime since any god had heard him. He did not know who he was, or what he was, why he was still alive why he had ever been born.

Theon,” a voice seemed to whisper.

His head snapped up. “Who said that?” All he could see were the trees and the fog that covered them. The voice had been as faint as rustling leaves, as cold as hate. A god’s voice, or a ghost’s? How many died the day that he took Winterfell? How many more the day he lost it? The day that Theon Greyjoy died to be reborn as Reek. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with shriek.

Suddenly he did not want to be here.

Once outside the godswood, the cold descended on him like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth. He lowered his head into the wind and made for the Great Hall, hastening after the long line of candles and torches. Ice crunches beneath his boots, and a sudden gust pushed back his hood as if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers, hungry to gaze upon his face” (489).

Martin describes the “cold” descending upon Theon “like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth.” The simile comparing the cold to a wolf definitely suggests a very STARK influence in the godswood. The airy force which is commanded by Bran seemingly taunts Theon in a mischievous way that definitely hints at Bran.

Note that a “sudden gust” [of wind], which IS Bran, pushes back Theon’s hood as “if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers” and the ghost is “hungry to gaze upon his face.”

I also wish to point out that the comparison of Bran to a “ghost” is significant: in AGoT, Bran envies Jon’s name choice for his direwolf: “Ghost”. This is, in part, due to Bran’s wish to be “a ghost”, an entity that is invisible while he can spy on others, which ironically comes to pass as Bran sits the weirwood throne.

Martin creates an eerie ambience in the godswood with the persistent mention of the color “grey” and the mists, and these “mists” appear in Bran’s three-eyed-crow dream in AGoT, wherein Martin describes a grey mist that surrounds and seemingly protects Bran until he returns to his bed, then it dissipates. Six times is the grey mist referenced in Bran’s dream, so the appearance of the mist indicates the presence of Bran and the three-eyed-crow.

“He had never seen the godswood like this, though – grey and ghostly, filled with warm mists and floating lights and whispered voices that seemed to come from everywhere and nowhere” (487)

“The mists were so thick that only the nearest trees were visible . . .”

“Then the mists parted, like the curtain opening at a mummer show to reveal some new tableau” (487).

I cannot help wondering if the WIND is a force that is part of Bran’s powers and that Bran, either consciously or unconsciously, is governing IT to a purpose.

One other note about the WIND: it appears that the WIND is also behind Jon turning back to find his direwolf Ghost:

“Halfway across the bridge, Jon pulled up suddenly.

“What is it, Jon?” their lord father asked.

“Can’t you hear it?”

BRAN COULD HEAR THE WIND IN THE TREES, the clatter of their hooves on the ironwood planks, the whimpering of his hungry pup. But Jon was listening to SOMETHING ELSE” (AGoT 20).

Apparently, the wind in the trees, which indicates the old gods, is the power that harkens Jon to return and to find his direwolf pup Ghost.

The oft-repeated expression “words are wind” takes on a deeper meaning IF the powers that are the old gods are, or will be using the wind to cause problems with drifting snows, as we see at Winterfell, the Wall, and Stannis’ army’s location.

Martin’s next novel THE WINDS OF WINTER also takes on a greater significance if, indeed, the wind is a power attributable to the old gods, Bran, and quite possibly, the WIND brings the COLD and THE OTHERS?

Now, if we parse the Prologue of AGoT, WIND is mentioned frequently, personified as having TEETH, FINGERS, and HOWLING. Martin, on many occasions, DESCRIBES THE WIND in terms of a WOLF – but I am just beginning to document the evidence, so I do not know where it will take me.

Fantastic analysis!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am reposting my analysis from Redriver’s WINTER FELL thread since it discusses some of the points I have been following in this thread. I do wonder about the importance of the WIND and how it relates to the “cold” and the White Walkers. What follows are a few of my observations.

“WORDS ARE WIND”

The WIND is a powerful force in Martin’s series ASoI&F, and one I nearly overlooked because I instead focused on the mystery of the White Walkers appearing in conjunction with the COLD. After carefully deconstructing passages in search of recurring language patterns associated with WINTER, the weather, the White Walkers, and the COLD, I could not ignore the relationship that the wind shares with the enigma that is the old gods, that is the heart tree, and that is winter.

In AGoT, Bran finds peace in the godswood with his direwolf Summer. Sitting beneath the heart tree, Bran prays to the old gods, asking them to protect his brother Robb and his retainers on their journey south:

"If Robb has to go, watch over him," Bran entreated the old gods, as they watched him with the heart tree's red eyes, "and watch over his men, Hal and Quent and the rest, and Lord Umber and Lady Mormont and the other lords. And Theon too, I suppose. Watch them and keep them safe, if it please you, gods. Help them defeat the Lannisters and save Father and bring them home."

Immediately following Bran’s prayer, Martin personifies the wind by endowing it with a voice that “sighs” and with leaves that “stir” and “whisper”:

“A faint wind sighed through the godswood and the red leaves stirred and whispered. Summer bared his teeth.”

Evidently, as is often the case, an animal will sense a presence or hear a sound that a human might not be able to sense. Summer baring his teeth indicates that he hears “something” out-of-the-ordinary that Bran as yet cannot hear.

Osha makes her presence known by asking Bran:

"You hear them, boy?"

AND

"They are my gods too . . . Beyond the Wall, they are the only gods."

Bran quizzes Osha: "Tell me what you meant, about hearing the gods."

"You asked them and they're answering. Open your ears, listen, you'll hear."

Bran listened. "It's only the wind," he said after a moment, uncertain. "The leaves are rustling."

"Who do you think sends the wind, if not the gods? . . . They see you, boy. They hear you talking. That rustling, that's them talking back" (577).

Martin establishes that the old gods send the wind that causes the leaves in the heart tree to rustle, or to “talk back”. Bran consequently understands that he will need to develop the insight to understand what the old gods are trying to communicate to him. More importantly, once Bran becomes a part of the godhood, he will have the wind at his disposal to make his presence known.

In ADwD, when Bran first slips his skin to go into the roots of the weirwood, he finds himself looking through the eyes of the heart tree in Winterfell’s godswood where Bran sees his father cleaning Ice:

Lord Eddard Stark sat upon a rock beside the deep black pool in the godswood, the pale roots of the heart tree twisting around him like an old man’s gnarled arms. The greatsword Ice lay across his lap, and he was cleaning the blade with an oil cloth.

Winterfell,” Bran whispered.

His father looked up. “Who’s there?” he asked, turning . . .” (457).

Bran returns from his “weirnet” visit to tell his companions what he has experienced. Lord Brynden’s advice to Bran echoes that which Osha says to him in AGoT:

A man must know how to look before he can hope to see . . . Those were shadows of days past that you saw, Bran” (ADwD 458). Then, Lord Brynden explains that “time” is different for trees. Regardless, Bran insists his father heard him, to which BR says, “He heard a whisper on the wind, a rustling amongst the leaves” (ADwD 458).

Bran sees his father in the “past”, which retards his abilities to speak with him.

So, is it possible that Bran’s powers exceed BR’s in that those whom he speaks to in the “present” might be able to hear what the rustling leaves have to say in real time?

Bran attends the wedding of Ramsay Bolton and “fake” Arya by watching through the eyes of the weirwood, from which he observes the mummer’s farce of a wedding. It is Theon who notices the heart tree’s expression, presenting a far different countenance from the “long and melancholy” features it wears in scenes depicted in AGoT.

“The weirwoods carved red eyes stared down at them, its great red mouth open as if to laugh. In the branches overhead a raven quorked” (ADwD 488). The mouth indicating a laugh suggests that at least Bran can see some humor in the blasphemy playing out in the godswood. That is, Bran IS behind the weirwood “mask”. Obviously, Bran has some magical control over certain natural elements, and in the “Winterfell” POV in ADwD, Bran is a skilled “multi-tasker” – Bran is in the trees, the wind, the whispering leaves, the crows, the ravens, the weirwood, etc. Perhaps Martin limits Bran’s POV’s so that his readers can infer the lordling’s progress in exercising his newly conceived powers – what if Bran can command MORE THAN ONE “essence” at a time? It seems likely, especially since Arya can be in both a “cat” and in “herself”, as evident when she divulges the identity of the person who has been beating her in the HoB&W.

Moreover, Bran commands the attention of Theon Greyjoy, who is aware of supernatural forces that he suspects are taunting him. But the mischievous entity controlling the winds is Bran, and he has a bit of fun tormenting his late father’s ward, the turncloak who betrayed the Starks.

“It had been a lifetime since any god had heard him. He did not know who he was, or what he was, why he was still alive why he had ever been born.

Theon,” a voice seemed to whisper.

His head snapped up. “Who said that?” All he could see were the trees and the fog that covered them. The voice had been as faint as rustling leaves, as cold as hate. A god’s voice, or a ghost’s? How many died the day that he took Winterfell? How many more the day he lost it? The day that Theon Greyjoy died to be reborn as Reek. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with shriek.

Suddenly he did not want to be here.

Once outside the godswood, the cold descended on him like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth. He lowered his head into the wind and made for the Great Hall, hastening after the long line of candles and torches. Ice crunches beneath his boots, and a sudden gust pushed back his hood as if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers, hungry to gaze upon his face” (489).

Martin describes the “cold” descending upon Theon “like a ravening wolf had caught him in its teeth.” The simile comparing the cold to a wolf definitely suggests a very STARK influence in the godswood. The airy force which is commanded by Bran seemingly taunts Theon in a mischievous way that definitely hints at Bran.

Note that a “sudden gust” [of wind], which IS Bran, pushes back Theon’s hood as “if a ghost had plucked at him with frozen fingers” and the ghost is “hungry to gaze upon his face.”

I also wish to point out that the comparison of Bran to a “ghost” is significant: in AGoT, Bran envies Jon’s name choice for his direwolf: “Ghost”. This is, in part, due to Bran’s wish to be “a ghost”, an entity that is invisible while he can spy on others, which ironically comes to pass as Bran sits the weirwood throne.

Martin creates an eerie ambience in the godswood with the persistent mention of the color “grey” and the mists, and these “mists” appear in Bran’s three-eyed-crow dream in AGoT, wherein Martin describes a grey mist that surrounds and seemingly protects Bran until he returns to his bed, then it dissipates. Six times is the grey mist referenced in Bran’s dream, so the appearance of the mist indicates the presence of Bran and the three-eyed-crow.

“He had never seen the godswood like this, though – grey and ghostly, filled with warm mists and floating lights and whispered voices that seemed to come from everywhere and nowhere” (487)

“The mists were so thick that only the nearest trees were visible . . .”

“Then the mists parted, like the curtain opening at a mummer show to reveal some new tableau” (487).

I cannot help wondering if the WIND is a force that is part of Bran’s powers and that Bran, either consciously or unconsciously, is governing IT to a purpose.

One other note about the WIND: it appears that the WIND is also behind Jon turning back to find his direwolf Ghost:

“Halfway across the bridge, Jon pulled up suddenly.

“What is it, Jon?” their lord father asked.

“Can’t you hear it?”

BRAN COULD HEAR THE WIND IN THE TREES, the clatter of their hooves on the ironwood planks, the whimpering of his hungry pup. But Jon was listening to SOMETHING ELSE” (AGoT 20).

Apparently, the wind in the trees, which indicates the old gods, is the power that harkens Jon to return and to find his direwolf pup Ghost.

The oft-repeated expression “words are wind” takes on a deeper meaning IF the powers that are the old gods are, or will be using the wind to cause problems with drifting snows, as we see at Winterfell, the Wall, and Stannis’ army’s location.

Martin’s next novel THE WINDS OF WINTER also takes on a greater significance if, indeed, the wind is a power attributable to the old gods, Bran, and quite possibly, the WIND brings the COLD and THE OTHERS?

Now, if we parse the Prologue of AGoT, WIND is mentioned frequently, personified as having TEETH, FINGERS, and HOWLING. Martin, on many occasions, DESCRIBES THE WIND in terms of a WOLF – but I am just beginning to document the evidence, so I do not know where it will take me.

A very well thought out analysis. Something to mull over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am reposting my analysis from Redriver’s WINTER FELL thread since it discusses some of the points I have been following in this thread. I do wonder about the importance of the WIND and how it relates to the “cold” and the White Walkers. What follows are a few of my observations.

“WORDS ARE WIND”

snip...

Wonderful analysis evita mgfs and I agree with these conclusions and I've noticed the same thing. The wind throughout the story has been a manifestation of an "old gods" presence and is sort of hiding in plain sight just like whoever is in Mormont's raven.

Other mentions I've noticed is Dany's last chapter in ADWD and the wind rustling through the grass of the Dothraki sea is conversing with Dany. I know many people think she's going insane at this point, but the personification of the grass sea reminded me very much of the rustling weirwood whispering.

Wolfmaid this is a wonderful thread, I really like the exploration of exactly what "the cold" is in the story and what the motivations of the Others and Walkers. Couple questions:

1) What do you think of this quote from ADWD about the CotF behavior towards the cold trying to invade the caves? And the interesting way rock has "swallowed" people.

After the bone-grinding cold of the lands beyond the Wall, the caves were blessedly warm, and when the chill crept out of the rock the singers would light fires to drive it off again. Down here there was no wind, no snow, no ice, no dead things reaching out to grab you, only dreams and rushlight and the kisses of the ravens. And the whisperer in darkness.

There are also two instances of the story of rock seemingly "swallowing" people or containing presences against their will. First, hardhome has what is known as "the screaming caves" and second, in the Red Keep's underground tunnels in AFFC. When Jaime organized the search party to find Tyrion, two men dissappear, but the men think they hear them yelling from the cave wall. The soldiers then tear down and dig out the cave walls, but they never find the men. It sounds suspiciously like hardhome.

Considering the behavior of the CotF in the cave lighting fires to keep the cold from the rock, do you think the cold could have the ability to snatch people into it? And also, do you think the cold could actually already be south of the wall through the rock, considering this happened at the red keep? And what could that mean for the wildlings being "herded" south? Also since there seems to be much personification around stone, especially in Dragonstone, and as a conduit to the gods in the HoB&W I wonder if this could be a possible reason for Dragonstone's hot vents starting up again, as Maester Cressen mentions, as a defence against "the cold". Hmm. And that was just after the birth of the dragons too.

2) Tormund and Ygritte mention "loosing shadows" that the wildlings were followed by shadows on their heels. Considering Mellisandre using Stannis to make a shadowbaby, and that she and Quaithe are considered "shadowbinders" do you think that "the cold" could actually be the essence of the dead? But for the ice side of the equation? Or do you think that shadows in the story are not of cold and/or fire but perhaps they are in a certain state of cold or fire?

Personally I've been toying with the idea that what we are seeing north of the wall is just man. But man in a sort of purgatory state where they can't get to their true death because it was taken away from them. If they seem passive agressive or to be ridiculing the living, I think it's because the living just sold off their rightful existence in death to the CotF and are stuck in "the cold dark hell reserved for Starks" as Ned mentions instead of the weirwood the CotF took over by blood magic. What's kind of dumb though is that the living would just end up dead and in the same boat the cold shadows are anyway. So from the Other's perspective "Ha ha joke's on you living human, I'm gonna kill you Royce and now that makes you on my side because you'll be pissed off and undead like me too. You would have gotten there eventually because no one lives forever." if that's the case I can understand why the Other was laughing at him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Wolf Maid. You are making a convincing argument that the the Cold is the cause and the Wights are the effect. And you make a plausible argument for the WW as the solution where men and the children joined forces to "defeat" the plague of wights and why they disappeared. And of course herding and leading are the same thing; if you consider that herds of cattle and horses follow a leader.



I also wonder about the legends that the wights feed on blood and flesh of the living and that the wights are drawn to heat and warm blood. But if we accept that the Cold infects with a virus then you could say that the wights feed on the blood and flesh infusing every part of the body.



Evita's hypothesis concerning the wind controlled by the greenseers, or the Old Gods or the Children is also fascinating. This makes the Storm Lords much more tangible. As Moqorro's says when contemplating the hurricane that is about to descend on them in a wall of black clouds; the Gods will not be mocked.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Wolf Maid. You are making a convincing argument that the the Cold is the cause and the Wights are the effect. And you make a plausible argument for the WW as the solution where men and the children joined forces to "defeat" the plague of wights and why they disappeared. And of course herding and leading are the same thing; if you consider that herds of cattle and horses follow a leader.

I also wonder about the legends that the wights feed on blood and flesh of the living and that the wights are drawn to heat and warm blood. But if we accept that the Cold infects with a virus then you could say that the wights feed on the blood and flesh infusing every part of the body.

Evita's hypothesis concerning the wind controlled by the greenseers, or the Old Gods or the Children is also fascinating. This makes the Storm Lords much more tangible. As Moqorro's says when contemplating the hurricane that is about to descend on them in a wall of black clouds; the Gods will not be mocked.

I've often wondered about them eating and drinking the blood of their victims. Up till now we haven't seen that happen. So I'm dismissing that as "hokum" but the movement of the Wights are reminiscent of a virus and basically what they are spreading is death.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh Heck, I meant to say the virus feeds on blood and flesh infecting the entire body.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've often wondered about them eating and drinking the blood of their victims. Up till now we haven't seen that happen. So I'm dismissing that as "hokum" but the movement of the Wights are reminiscent of a virus and basically what they are spreading is death.

I think this is unlikely... I think we will learn that the cause of the wights is supernatural in origin.

A Virus does not explain the behavior that Othar & Jafer displayed...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this is unlikely... I think we will learn that the cause of the wights is supernatural in origin.

A Virus does not explain the behavior that Othar & Jafer displayed...

Well I think that's for sure seeing that there is no virus of death. I was comparing the movement of the Wights of virus like , but I believe natural magic is at work .They seem apt to spread more than anything .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread has a lot to digest - the original theory is tought-provoking to begin with, and then two Evita-analyses :stunned:



First, a nit-pick I want to get out of the way quickly:




The above quote is the nail in the coffin, only Gared saw the bodies of the Wildlings, and to him they were frozen stiff in place. One woman was leaning on a post and the others were instantaneously frozen in whatever state they stopped in, meaning that there was a dramatic drop in temperature. They had no bruises or any signs of trauma, they died quickly. However, Ser Waymar contradicts Gared’s statement by indicating that the Wall was weeping, it was warm so they couldn't have frozen. I tend to believe Gared’s first- hand account of the Wilding bodies and that it was “the Cold”.




No, Gared never saw the bodies. It was Will who did, and based on his report Gared determined it must have been the cold. Still, I believe he was right.



Second, I like the theory - the relationship between the 'cold mists' and the Others always bugged me, and this is an angle I haven't thought of before.



My biggest issue is: what's the purpose of this herding? What do they do with the dead? If they just herd them south going after The Cold, that'll only result in more dead - what The Cold doesn't kill, the wights will.



Then, the very first time we see them seems to contradict this, for a different reason than others already brought up: they happen to leave a dead body behind, which gets Wighted and conveniently kills off poor Will. Surely they'd be aware that once Royce is dead his body needs to be 'walked' away?



Also, you say they're trying to chase humans out from their territory. However, they get along rather well with Craster (whether or not he's their Daddy) and even relying on his sacrifices. Also, they seem to like/need blood. They could have just left Royce entirely to the one who duelled him, but they all joined in for the slaughter. Also, both in the Prologue and the first Bran chapter, special attention is given to the 'blood on the snow'. It's not clear where Martin is going with that, but it seems like whatever is behind the Others/wights/The Cold wants blood. Thus, wants to have some humans around.



I'll add more after mulling things over and looking up all WW/wight encounters (that I can remember) in the books.



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread has a lot to digest - the original theory is tought-provoking to begin with, and then two Evita-analyses :stunned:

First, a nit-pick I want to get out of the way quickly:

No, Gared never saw the bodies. It was Will who did, and based on his report Gared determined it must have been the cold. Still, I believe he was right.

Second, I like the theory - the relationship between the 'cold mists' and the Others always bugged me, and this is an angle I haven't thought of before.

My biggest issue is: what's the purpose of this herding? What do they do with the dead? If they just herd them south going after The Cold, that'll only result in more dead - what The Cold doesn't kill, the wights will.

Then, the very first time we see them seems to contradict this, for a different reason than others already brought up: they happen to leave a dead body behind, which gets Wighted and conveniently kills off poor Will. Surely they'd be aware that once Royce is dead his body needs to be 'walked' away?

Also, you say they're trying to chase humans out from their territory. However, they get along rather well with Craster (whether or not he's their Daddy) and even relying on his sacrifices. Also, they seem to like/need blood. They could have just left Royce entirely to the one who duelled him, but they all joined in for the slaughter. Also, both in the Prologue and the first Bran chapter, special attention is given to the 'blood on the snow'. It's not clear where Martin is going with that, but it seems like whatever is behind the Others/wights/The Cold wants blood. Thus, wants to have some humans around.

I'll add more after mulling things over and looking up all WW/wight encounters (that I can remember) in the books.

Thank you Nanother for the post,i have to update the theory with more evidence that i've found, but i admit procrastination has gotten to me.To your first point about the herding.

I think herding the Wildlings south was and still is a good plan to a point .The WWs would have been pretty much been saving their lives,it worked and could work based on one thing "The wall".

The Cold would not be able to go pass it ,therefore once the Wildlings are safely behind all is well. However, should the Wall fall ,then "the cold" would get pass then all bets are off ;with a war torn south lots of people dead and dying the s**t will hit the fan.

However,it's a surety as the sun rises that The Wall will fall.This i think even they didn't think would happen.I believe -and its another theory -ice,earth and blood went into building the wall and into the spells that are keeping it up.

When it comes to chasing humans out of the far North,that becomes necessary because of "the cold" as i stated it is moving in a pattern attracted to the dead and the dying . Prior to that we don't see a mass exodus of Wildlings south,its only happening now because dead Wildlings are rising on account of "the cold" which is making its cyclical move over the land.

As for Craster i really think he is a necessary evil,think soul eater arc. While i don't believe Craster's sons are being turned into WWs,i do believe based on the descriptions and attributes of the WWs swords that is where the boys are going, into-making the WWs weaponry( another theory).

As to why leave Royce's body in the prologue? that's understandable seeing as they were probably tracking the Wildlings that had "the cold" in them and remember a long time had passed before( Will i think it is,i always mix up their names)opened his eyes. While his eyes were closed i believed he was being "Thistled/wighted".

From what i deduced from the text and i will add them later,its not a choice for the WWs to hang around and wait.They themselves are drawn to the wights because of "the cold" Royce wasn't wighted yet but the wildlings were so like a mouth to the flame they'd move on.

Plus it was important to show how he would have attacked Will,going for the throat was a way of getting his mouth open( opening mouth important) part of my theory that needed updating,Thanks to Evita and Mace who noticed that the Wight attacks we've seen seem to want to get the mouth of the victim open,it seems this is the port of entry for "the cold".

Also,from a writing standpoint how it went down was pretty cool and more impactful.

I think you are right "the cold" seems to need humans if you notice in AGOT the attack on Mormont Jon commented on how when he cut off Othor's hand it felt wrong.

As to why not leave Royce to the Ser Crackles( the one he was dueling) If you read that prologue again Royce was already dead that slash that went under his arms brought him to his knees. It was honestly to them maybe a clean warriors death. During the whole duel they stood back and did not interfere,they didn't rush in blood thirsty and kill him.him. We've seen knights,and other humans in this series act more inhuman

What's up in the air is if "the cold" is intelligent or just a force of nature( next project). There is divided ideas on that of those of us who believe in "the cold"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent topic. My high praise to all involved in these analysis.


I am very fond of the significance of wind in the novels.


Will be following up closely, I think you are on the right track.



Also, is it possible that something sneaked in hiding in mist and shadows with the wildling traffic to Castle Black?


It would account for some strange happenings over there, wouldn't it?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent topic. My high praise to all involved in these analysis.

I am very fond of the significance of wind in the novels.

Will be following up closely, I think you are on the right track.

Also, is it possible that something sneaked in hiding in mist and shadows with the wildling traffic to Castle Black?

It would account for some strange happenings over there, wouldn't it?

That is an excellent question,i know a lot of Wildlings came in sick and dying,the wildlings that did die,i think they burnt them right away.So no harm there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A very interesting topic, but I see things a lot differently with regards to the cold, the WW, and the wights.



I think the reason ASOIAF starts with the return of the Others is to show that Magic is back in a big way and that it is the Others that have generated its resurgence. They laugh at Royce because I think to them he is laughable as an adversary - the NW they knew had formidable men as Rangers. Remember that prior to them showing up, Magic had been on the wane for centuries everywhere. I believe that in this world, Magic isn't a sword without a hilt, it's a power that cannot be increased for just one side. That is, if I create more power for myself, everyone else who uses Magic will have their power increased as well. That is a very dangerous thing indeed for any world.



I don't expect any big war with the WW. The reason being they haven't done so in 5 books, so why start now? If they had plans to destroy the Wall and head South, we should have seen a lot more aggressive effort to make more soldiers (wights) out of the free folk. Instead, all they seemed to be interested in was kicking them out of the North (along with the NW) which they did by harassing their flanks and rear, but never actually attacking in earnest. The only ones they attacked in an actual battle, was the NW at the Fist. The NW needed to be routed to get them to head South, the Free Folk just needed a little encouragement to move faster.



The thing is, if they really wanted a lot of dead humans for soldiers they could have simply allowed the NW to attack the Free Folk and killed three birds without doing a thing. Instead they attack the NW. My conclusion is they cared more about sending a message to the NW (get out and stay out) rather than doing the best thing if your goal is to build an army of wights.



As for the cold, it seems very magical to me and is likely part of the WW general operation so I assume they bring it with them wherever they go. I expect it is easier for them to operate if the weather is favorable to them (dark and cold), but as they get stronger I assume the weather will matter less.



The wights themselves seem mostly like soldiers, albeit slow and addled soldiers. I assume the WW give them general orders that they carry out however they choose based on their preexisting knowledge and skills. We've seen them infiltrate Castle Black, attack in military formation, and lie in wait in a trap outside of the cave opening. What we have not seen in them massing for a campaign against the Wall. Of course it can happen, I just don't think that it will.



What I am ultimately saying is that the enemy that will need to be fought is not the WW, but the power of Magic itself. That is what the quest to the far North will be about in TWOW and what I think Dany will have to consider doing when she rides her mount to dread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A very interesting topic, but I see things a lot differently with regards to the cold, the WW, and the wights.

I think the reason ASOIAF starts with the return of the Others is to show that Magic is back in a big way and that it is the Others that have generated its resurgence. They laugh at Royce because I think to them he is laughable as an adversary - the NW they knew had formidable men as Rangers. Remember that prior to them showing up, Magic had been on the wane for centuries everywhere. I believe that in this world, Magic isn't a sword without a hilt, it's a power that cannot be increased for just one side. That is, if I create more power for myself, everyone else who uses Magic will have their power increased as well. That is a very dangerous thing indeed for any world.

I don't expect any big war with the WW. The reason being they haven't done so in 5 books, so why start now? If they had plans to destroy the Wall and head South, we should have seen a lot more aggressive effort to make more soldiers (wights) out of the free folk. Instead, all they seemed to be interested in was kicking them out of the North (along with the NW) which they did by harassing their flanks and rear, but never actually attacking in earnest. The only ones they attacked in an actual battle, was the NW at the Fist. The NW needed to be routed to get them to head South, the Free Folk just needed a little encouragement to move faster.

The thing is, if they really wanted a lot of dead humans for soldiers they could have simply allowed the NW to attack the Free Folk and killed three birds without doing a thing. Instead they attack the NW. My conclusion is they cared more about sending a message to the NW (get out and stay out) rather than doing the best thing if your goal is to build an army of wights.

As for the cold, it seems very magical to me and is likely part of the WW general operation so I assume they bring it with them wherever they go. I expect it is easier for them to operate if the weather is favorable to them (dark and cold), but as they get stronger I assume the weather will matter less.

The wights themselves seem mostly like soldiers, albeit slow and addled soldiers. I assume the WW give them general orders that they carry out however they choose based on their preexisting knowledge and skills. We've seen them infiltrate Castle Black, attack in military formation, and lie in wait in a trap outside of the cave opening. What we have not seen in them massing for a campaign against the Wall. Of course it can happen, I just don't think that it will.

What I am ultimately saying is that the enemy that will need to be fought is not the WW, but the power of Magic itself. That is what the quest to the far North will be about in TWOW and what I think Dany will have to consider doing when she rides her mount to dread.

I wouldn't say that magic is back because of the WWs,there are several theories on that which i like. But magic is not something that goes and come,it is true of our real world and of this world Why? Well we only have to look at the Wall itself,it was enacted with magic and is still standing,people like to Ghost of High Heart practice magic in one form or the other.The fact that skinchangers and Woods Witches are prominant beyond that wall and the fact BR is alive attached to a tree able to see through it is proof that magic never went away. Magic is noticeable because people believe and belief increases signs.

Noteworthy is this,the land that is now Westeros had its own set of rules long before men set foot on it.There are creatures great and small and inhabitants that still live there and while in the background they didn't stop living and doing the things they did because men came,its just done in secret.

As to the WWs giving the Wights general commands and that their using "the cold". It's not inferred nor is there any proof to support that.

I hate to make guesses about what will happen but i think a lot of bad mistakes are going to made because of in correct assertions about the WWs role.

I think that based on the text "the cold" is raising the Wights and the WWs don't have anything to do with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey wolfmaid7 - you asked me what I had posted in Heresy about how the cold might relate to plant life north of the Wall... and it is something that I touched upon, but I don't think it ever really got fleshed out. At least, I don't think I did, anyway.



The comment you may have had in mind was brief, and really just suggested a connection based on the "CO2" theory posted by Harlan that I thought was well thought out and really interesting. Basically, his idea was that both the WWs and the sudden influxes of "white cold" might be explained as being composed primarily of carbon dioxide. So, the WWs could be a super-cooled pseudo-solid state embodiment of the cold itself... and certain properties of CO2 would jive well with what we know about these entities. (I'm quoting his full post below - definitely worth reading again!)



I liked the idea, because it fit with my notion that the Cold and the Others (WWs) are essentially the same - two aspects of the same thing, neither contingent on the other, the WWs functioning as an embodiment of the cold at its most intense and dangerous.



I also liked that it would provide a natural connection between these "cold gods" and the "old gods" - meaning the trees and the COTF - because plant life depends upon carbon dioxide for photosynthesis and survival.



(We were not, at that time, discussing the mechanics of possession by the cold - i.e., entry by mouth - but that too could fit with the CO2 theory, insofar as the gas would be inhaled and, displacing the oxygen required by the human body, would result in death by asphyxiation...)







I'm the one who brought it up. I brought it up because of a theory which was proposed to explain some of the properties of the popsicles/cold. It attempts to explain the following properties of popsicles



1. popsicles are impossibly light weight (they don't even break the crust of snow)


2. popsicles are capable of disappearing or appearing apparently at will (as seen in the GoT prolouge)


3. sound of the popsicles blade when it makes contact with steel.


4. ability of "the cold" to put out fire and be generally lethal in a strange way


5. smell of "the cold"



Basically, the theory is that popsicles and the cold are two forms of the same entity which is primarily composed of gas. Popsicles appear when the gas takes on a hyper cooled pseudo solid state while "the cold" is this entity in its gaseous state. This can explain why the popsicles can disappear and reappear. They are essentially just transitioning between their two states. It also can explain why they are so lightwight (they are only as dense as they choose to be, meaning that their effective weight can be manipulated). It further explains the strange sound made when their swords touch steel which can be compared to the follwing video which has metal touching dry ice(a solid gas, here is the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USbQMQ4FI48 ) Another thing that this hypothesis explains is "the cold's" ability to put out fire. What most people don't think about is that cold, by itself, can't really put out a fire because fires tend to produce enough heat to sustain the reaction. If the theory is correct, then it's possible that "the cold" can manipulate the concentrations of gases, reducing the available oxygen to the fire (or to a human) which would kill the fire. One last property of "the cold" which is often talked about, but rarely thought about, is the fact that characters can smell it. If the cold is simply a temperature change then people shouldn't be able to smell it. They would be able to detect "the cold" using temperature senors in the skin, but they wouldn't be able to smell it. If, on the other hand, "the cold" is just some kind of sentient air, then this air could be smelt as it would be composed of abnormal concentrations of particles.



So, how cracked is this pot?



edit: here's some more dry ice screams for people who like to torture themselves


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC2GnMU-D0k





Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×