Ramsay Gimp Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 This theory is bad and you should all feel bad. Tyrion is a Lannister, and Tywin ain't no cuckold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Ok, so there is You're no son of mine comment from Tywin. Mladen, does Tyrion have any special connection with dragons besides having dragon dreams as a kid? It should be noted that "you are no son of mine" Tywin also said to Jaime. Also, Tyrion didn't have dragon dreams, he had dreams with dragons, and that is a huge difference. People claim that dragon connection is in SR's line "make him fly", but I find most of them in Tyrion's obsession with dragons and the Moqorro vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I never got the impression that Tyrion's dreams were like Daeron, Aerion, Aemon's, etc. It seems actual dragon dreams are usually if not always about Targs, not necessarily actual dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Dany dreams of literal dragons, too. No prophetic 'dragon dreams' there, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 UnmaskedLurker - thanks for the link, I briefly skimmed though first page. I'm not really interested in opening new thread - someone who believes in theory should do it. I just wanted to briefly list all hints and evidence to see if I'm missing anything important when assessing the theory. No problem--maybe one of these days I will have the time. The first page of that link is only a taste (and yes, it would take hours to read all 35 pages). My recollection is that as the thread continued on, the debate kept getting more and more juicy (although, like all such threads, also started getting somewhat repetitive). But again, for me, the "three heads of the dragon" clues are what put me over the top. An interesting analysis of all the common links among Tyrion, Jon and Dany can be found in this thread. And with that link, the OP sets out pretty much all the clues, so no need to dig into the rest of the thread. Once one concludes that Jon, Dany and Tyrion are the three heads of the dragon, the other clues seem to suggest that this only makes sense if A+J=T. There are just too many other people with a "drop" of Targ blood for Tryion to be a head of the dragon if he only has a drop--the point is for Tyrion to be a head of the dragon--he needs more than just a drop of Targ blood. He needs to be "of the dragon" which a Targ king father would do--an ancient Targ ancestor would not. And the point about Tyrion being obsessed with dragons is simply--why does the author give us this information. Sure, other kids probably had some interest in dragons and might have even dreamed about them, but we are not told about any of those people. We are told about Tyrion dreaming of dragons. Why? And they could not be pure prophetic "dragon dreams" because that would lay it on too thick and give too much away. The clues have to be more subtle so that they don't "prove" Tyrion is a Targ bastard, just hints that he might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 While I definitely agree that it is entirely possible for Tyrion to be Aerys' son, I do think it will undermine Tyrion's whole ASOS arc (and Jaime's AFFC arc, if Jaime is Aerys' son). Another thing is Moqorro's prophecy, in which he doesn't make the connection of dragons and Tyrion, but actually separates them:Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of it all.If Tyrion was half Targ, then that prophecy is almost lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 That was not a prophecy. Moqorro was mocking Tyrion, just as he is mocking Victarion right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 That was not a prophecy. Moqorro was mocking Tyrion, just as he is mocking Victarion right now. That I doubt. There was no reason for Moqorro to mock Tyrion. It's not strictly a prophecy thought, but it is what he saw in flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reckoner Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The flames showed Aerys Da Ali G Show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 While I definitely agree that it is entirely possible for Tyrion to be Aerys' son, I do think it will undermine Tyrion's whole ASOS arc (and Jaime's AFFC arc, if Jaime is Aerys' son). Another thing is Moqorro's prophecy, in which he doesn't make the connection of dragons and Tyrion, but actually separates them: Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of it all. If Tyrion was half Targ, then that prophecy is almost lying. Not only that, but Quaithe's prophecy as well: The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal She says "lion", not "half-dragon" or something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Not only that, but Quaithe's prophecy as well: The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal She says "lion", not "half-dragon" or something like that Yeah, forgot about it, this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Not only that, but Quaithe's prophecy as well: The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal She says "lion", not "half-dragon" or something like that Tyrion would be recognized to the world as a lion. If the prophecy said half-dragon/half-lion, no one would know who was being referenced at it is meant as a warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Well, how the hell should Quaithe know about Tyrion's true heritage? She is not omniscient. In fact, she did not have a vision despite speaking cryptic stuff. She was seeing various people on their way to Dany in the glass candle she is using to contact Daenerys, but that was not a vision from the future but of events right. Obviously the Griffin and the Mummer's Dragon never arrived in Meereen, or did they? Moqorro is making fun of everyone on the ship because he knows what's going to happen. It is very subtle, but it's there, even more so with Vic later. However, we also don't know yet whether Moqorro did have a vision yet revealing the truth about Tyrion's heritage to him. That must not need to be the case. However, it is very likely, because the Widow at the Waterfront became very nice and cozy after she realized who Tyrion was. She must have known something about him that convinced her that it was important to get Tyrion to Slaver's Bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Tyrion would be recognized to the world as a lion. If the prophecy said half-dragon/half-lion, no one would know who was being referenced at it is meant as a warning.So then why the heck wasn't she little clearer about who the f@$! the pefumed seneschel was??? Woulda saved a lot forum space that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 So then why the heck wasn't she little clearer about who the f@$! the pefumed seneschel was??? Woulda saved a lot forum space that's for sure. I think you will know it when you see it. But I think LV gives a more thorough response than I did so read his post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I think you will know it when you see it. But I think LV gives a more thorough response than I did so read his post.I was just having some fun. Lord Varys is much too serious. So are you. But your debate, although dry as as an old fossil in the red waste, is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Well, how the hell should Quaithe know about Tyrion's true heritage? She is not omniscient. In fact, she did not have a vision despite speaking cryptic stuff. She was seeing various people on their way to Dany in the glass candle she is using to contact Daenerys, but that was not a vision from the future but of events right. Obviously the Griffin and the Mummer's Dragon never arrived in Meereen, or did they? Whether they arrived or not is beside the point. What matters here is that Quaithe saw people represented as their sigils, despite some of them like Quentyn, JonCon, Aegon, or Tyrion NOT wearing any sigils. She saw their, I don't know, their essence or heritage or something deeper. It wasn't like she saw Quentyn going to Meereen and said, "Hmmm, that kid's kind of chubby and round-looking. He reminds me of the sun, I'm gonna name him the sun's son" Just like she knew Aegon was a mummer's dragon, she could have realized Tyrion was also a dragon, but she didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 It's conjecture to assume that Quaithe saw people represented as their sigils We don't know that. All we do know is that she used, in part, cryptic heraldry talk when speaking to Dany. This does not mean she saw people represented as sigils. Neither the Pale Mare nor the Perfumed Seneschal are sigils after all (and in that case I've concede that Quaithe must have had at least one glimpse of the future with the Pale Mare). But anyway, even if she had visions were sigils symbolized people, Tyrion could still be a lion because he is undoubtedly the son of the lioness Joanna Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 It's conjecture to assume that Quaithe saw people represented as their sigils We don't know that. All we do know is that she used, in part, cryptic heraldry talk when speaking to Dany. This does not mean she saw people represented as sigils. Neither the Pale Mare nor the Perfumed Seneschal are sigils after all (and in that case I've concede that Quaithe must have had at least one glimpse of the future with the Pale Mare). But anyway, even if she had visions were sigils symbolized people, Tyrion could still be a lion because he is undoubtedly the son of the lioness Joanna Lannister. Kraken, lion, griffin, sun's son, dragon, those are all people's sigils. Obviously Moqorro has no sigil, so I guess dark flame suits him. But if Tyrion is a lion because of Joanna, why isn't Victarion a drowned man, as the Sunderly sigil? Or why isn't Quentyn whatever Mellario's depiction was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Whether they arrived or not is beside the point. What matters here is that Quaithe saw people represented as their sigils, despite some of them like Quentyn, JonCon, Aegon, or Tyrion NOT wearing any sigils. She saw their, I don't know, their essence or heritage or something deeper. It wasn't like she saw Quentyn going to Meereen and said, "Hmmm, that kid's kind of chubby and round-looking. He reminds me of the sun, I'm gonna name him the sun's son" Just like she knew Aegon was a mummer's dragon, she could have realized Tyrion was also a dragon, but she didn'tSee Lord Varys and Unmasked Lurker? You can have a little fun when making your points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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