Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Suzanna Stormborn

What happened to make Aerys lose respect for Tywin around 270-275AL?

Recommended Posts

I am convinced that A+J=T and I think that it will be confirmed in The World of Ice & fire

Or, at least, that we will be able to find out there has been the chance for it (with the specification of the timing and occasions Aerys and Joanna met each other)

Yes at this point I am quite certain of it as well. 6 more days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes at this point I am quite certain of it as well. 6 more days.

I am too cheap to pay for express shipping, so I will likely have to wait an extra week for my own copy of WoIaF. But I am relying on others to fill me in on these type of details. In addition to possible information about the whereabouts of Joanna and Aerys around the time of Tyrion's conception, there is information that has been confirmed will be in WoIaF--the Lannister family tree. I suspect it will clarify that Tywin and Joanna had no Targ ancestors so the only way Tyrion can ride a dragon is if Aerys is his father.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am too cheap to pay for express shipping, so I will likely have to wait an extra week for my own copy of WoIaF. But I am relying on others to fill me in on these type of details. In addition to possible information about the whereabouts of Joanna and Aerys around the time of Tyrion's conception, there is information that has been confirmed will be in WoIaF--the Lannister family tree. I suspect it will clarify that Tywin and Joanna had no Targ ancestors so the only way Tyrion can ride a dragon is if Aerys is his father.

YUP!

Lol #loveit

SO many theories are going to get blown out of the water and A+J=T will most likely be confirmed, or at least much more evidence will be given, enough to rival R+L=J for sure.

I am excited to see the Lannister family tree, as I am very very sick and tired of posters trying to make TYrion a dragon rider because some Lannister married a Targaryen like 10 generations back, I'm sorry but that theory is silly, and it is just an attempt to backtrack so they can change their already voiced opinions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There aren't Targs in the Lann lineage.

Tyrion is not the son of The Mad king.

Aerys 2 and Tywin have 8 pgs of shenanigans (113-121 TWOIAF). Their enmity had a lot to it. Not just Joanna.

Tyrion is the son of Tywin, same as we've already known. This secret Targ business just got out of hand on the boards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Damp Hair,



if you have to talk about the book, read harder...


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I have seen there is a lot more information about the people and events in the decades leading up to the rebellion than I expected. There is a lot of good information on Aerys and Tywin and their families, and things that happened between them.



That said, I didn't see anything that confirmed or really even implied A+J=T or A+J=C and J, or provided anything like the evidence for R+L=J. If anything, the information I saw made Aerys being the father of any of Tywin's children seem very unlikely IMO.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There aren't Targs in the Lann lineage.

Tyrion is not the son of The Mad king.

Aerys 2 and Tywin have 8 pgs of shenanigans (113-121 TWOIAF). Their enmity had a lot to it. Not just Joanna.

Tyrion is the son of Tywin, same as we've already known. This secret Targ business just got out of hand on the boards.

Yes TYrion is the son of tywin, that's what you call someone you raised from birth, your son. But he is not the sperm provider, Aerys is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I have seen there is a lot more information about the people and events in the decades leading up to the rebellion than I expected. There is a lot of good information on Aerys and Tywin and their families, and things that happened between them.

That said, I didn't see anything that confirmed or really even implied A+J=T or A+J=C and J, or provided anything like the evidence for R+L=J. If anything, the information I saw made Aerys being the father of any of Tywin's children seem very unlikely IMO.

I don't want to get too into spoiler stuff until the book comes out (don't was to upset the mods), but I think the information we are hoping to see is something that suggests that Aerys and Joanna were in the same location (presumably KL, but possible CR) around the time that Tyrion might have been conceived. I don't expect anything that more directly implies A+J=T. The absence of any Targ ancestor for Tywin and Joanna, however, would presumably narrow any possibility that Tyrion might ride a dragon unless A+J=T (assuming the right "drop" of dragon blood is required to ride a dragon--as I have been led to believe).

YUP!

Lol #loveit

SO many theories are going to get blown out of the water and A+J=T will most likely be confirmed, or at least much more evidence will be given, enough to rival R+L=J for sure.

I am excited to see the Lannister family tree, as I am very very sick and tired of posters trying to make TYrion a dragon rider because some Lannister married a Targaryen like 10 generations back, I'm sorry but that theory is silly, and it is just an attempt to backtrack so they can change their already voiced opinions.

Yes, I cannot wait until the book comes out and then hopefully I never have to read that lame excuse for how Tyrion could ride a dragon again. I would have been so disappointed in GRRM if he made Tyrion a head of the dragon and dragon rider and then used some ancient Targ ancestor as the explanation for how this could be the case. I just don't see GRRM being a writer that would do that--and pretty soon we should have definitive confirmation of that fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the TWOIAF book. Aerys 2 the mad king is not Tyrion's father, sperm donor, or elsewise. I won't give quote of what he said when Tyrion was born. You'll have to waite.

I still think Tyrion will ride a dragin though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the TWOIAF book. Aerys 2 the mad king is not Tyrion's father, sperm donor, or elsewise. I won't give quote of what he said when Tyrion was born. You'll have to waite.

I still think Tyrion will ride a dragin though.

What about the twins? (I have read that part too, but I want your opinion)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Lannister need ever have directly married a Targaryen for a current Lannister to have some Targaryen ancestry. Aegon IV alone was very generous spreading Targaryen ancestry to the Westerosi. Such ancestry could also come from having a child with a non-Targaryen with Targaryen ancestry. The tree can prove that there was or was not any Targaryen/Lannister marriages, but the trees are only going to reflect the official marriages and assumed parentage (for example, Jon being Ned's bastard son). It is going to give us names, not genetics. It is going to list Tyrion as Tywin's son, after all, regardless of whether he actually was or was not his father.



That's what I mean, the stuff I saw that could be taken as circumstantial evidence seemed to me to make it unlikely that any of Joanna's children are Aerys'.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the TWOIAF book. Aerys 2 the mad king is not Tyrion's father, sperm donor, or elsewise. I won't give quote of what he said when Tyrion was born. You'll have to waite.

I still think Tyrion will ride a dragin though.

Does the Lannister family tree confirm no Targ ancestors for Tywin and Joanna? If so, and if you believe Tyrion will ride a dragon--how? I have been led to believe that the book also confirms that the right "drop" of Targ blood is necessary to ride a dragon. So how can Tyrion ride a dragon without any Targ ancestor?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am too cheap to pay for express shipping, so I will likely have to wait an extra week for my own copy of WoIaF. But I am relying on others to fill me in on these type of details. In addition to possible information about the whereabouts of Joanna and Aerys around the time of Tyrion's conception, there is information that has been confirmed will be in WoIaF--the Lannister family tree. I suspect it will clarify that Tywin and Joanna had no Targ ancestors so the only way Tyrion can ride a dragon is if Aerys is his father.

Or that Nettles was not in fact a seed...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Lannister need ever have directly married a Targaryen for a current Lannister to have some Targaryen ancestry. Aegon IV alone was very generous spreading Targaryen ancestry to the Westerosi. Such ancestry could also come from having a child with a non-Targaryen with Targaryen ancestry. The tree can prove that there was or was not any Targaryen/Lannister marriages, but the trees are only going to reflect what is believed to be the case in Westeros (for example, Jon being Ned's bastard son). It is going to give us names, not genetics. It is going to list Tyrion as Tywin's son, after all, regardless of whether he actually was or was not his father.

That's what I mean, the stuff I saw that could be taken as circumstantial evidence seemed to me to make it unlikely that any of Joanna's children are Aerys'.

While technically correct--that logic is really stretching it in the context of the story. Tywin and Joanna are not just any old Lannister, Tywin is the oldest son of the oldest son of the oldest son, etc. of the top dog Lannister. Joanna is Tywin's first cousin, so her heritage is pretty "high noble" as well. You are suggesting that we will find out that one of the wives of these noblemen had an affair with a Targ, so they all now have some hidden Targ blood. Yes, I understand that essentially that is exactly what I am arguing in support of (either affair or rape by Aerys), but in the context of the story, it would not make sense for the Targ blood to come from some hidden affair between a wife of an ancestral Lannister and a Targ. I guess I realize, however, that whatever WoIaF says, this debate over the possible source of the right "drop" of Targ blood will not end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to get too into spoiler stuff until the book comes out (don't was to upset the mods), but I think the information we are hoping to see is something that suggests that Aerys and Joanna were in the same location (presumably KL, but possible CR) around the time that Tyrion might have been conceived. I don't expect anything that more directly implies A+J=T. The absence of any Targ ancestor for Tywin and Joanna, however, would presumably narrow any possibility that Tyrion might ride a dragon unless A+J=T (assuming the right "drop" of dragon blood is required to ride a dragon--as I have been led to believe).

Yes, I cannot wait until the book comes out and then hopefully I never have to read that lame excuse for how Tyrion could ride a dragon again. I would have been so disappointed in GRRM if he made Tyrion a head of the dragon and dragon rider and then used some ancient Targ ancestor as the explanation for how this could be the case. I just don't see GRRM being a writer that would do that--and pretty soon we should have definitive confirmation of that fact.

Tyrion could ride a dragon without being one of Rhaegar's three heads of the dragon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All 3 are the product of Tywin & Joanna Lannister.

Not everyone is secretly a gay Targaryan warged by bloodraven living under a secret identity. :)

I do not suspect that Tyrion is a really a Targ bastard because I want to find secret Targs behind every tree. It is because I have become convinced he is the third head of the dragon (given his parallels to Jon and Dany--and otherwise by process of elimination). Then there are the possible clues--like hair color, etc.--that seem like little easter eggs from GRRM. As a head of the dragon, he needs to be "of the dragon" which I interpret as "of House Targ".

I admit that "of the dragon" might mean something else and maybe Targ blood turns out not to be needed to ride a dragon. But all the evidence I see suggests otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While technically correct--that logic is really stretching it in the context of the story. Tywin and Joanna are not just any old Lannister, Tywin is the oldest son of the oldest son of the oldest son, etc. of the top dog Lannister. Joanna is Tywin's first cousin, so her heritage is pretty "high noble" as well. You are suggesting that we will find out that one of the wives of these noblemen had an affair with a Targ, so they all now have some hidden Targ blood. Yes, I understand that essentially that is exactly what I am arguing in support of (either affair or rape by Aerys), but in the context of the story, it would not make sense for the Targ blood to come from some hidden affair between a wife of an ancestral Lannister and a Targ. I guess I realize, however, that whatever WoIaF says, this debate over the possible source of the right "drop" of Targ blood will not end.

It isn't a stretch. There are non-Targaryen houses that have Targaryen ancestry from legitimate marriages with Targaryens or non-Targaryens who had Targaryen ancestry from legitimate marriages with Targaryens, and so on. There are non-Targaryens who have Targaryen ancestry outside of marriages, whether bastards acknowledged or passed off. There are names and there are genetics. Let's not put superficial limits on how people could come into Targaryen ancestry (whether enough to ride a dragon or not, assuming such ancestry is necessary to ride a dragon). The people who believe Aerys is Tyrion's father are not basing it on there having been a marriage between Aerys and Joanna, nobody expects Aerys to show up as Tyrion's father in a tree, yet some seem to think that a Targaryen must explicitly show up in the tree for there to be ancestry other than Aerys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×