What happened to make Aerys lose respect for Tywin around 270-275AL?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

If Tywin saw a lot of him in Tyrion, doesn't that mean then Tyrion is his?

It means he raised him, and instilled a ton of his personality and ideas into Tyrion, I don't think Tippy meant physical attributes. We haven't even gotten into those, which seem to lean more towards targaryen.

But yeah Tyrion is smart, calculating and tricksy, just like Genna Lannister said, "he is Tywins son" but that is all due to being raised by Tywin, who his actual father is wouldn't matter.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

If Tywin saw a lot of him in Tyrion, doesn't that mean then Tyrion is his?

Nope.

Parents of adopted children can see themselves in their children. The child's actions, mannerisms, likes/dislikes can mirror their parents. If Tywin was questioning Tyrion's parentage that would make things a lot more complicated.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

But yeah Tyrion is smart, calculating and tricksy, just like Genna Lannister said, "he is Tywins son" but that is all due to being raised by Tywin, who his actual father is wouldn't matter.

If Tyrion is a Targaryren, I can still see him having Lannister personality traits since his mom was a Lannister.

I think Tywin inadvertently created a mini version of himself when he put Tyrion through the Tysha incident. The same way Tywin was ruined by the embarrassing actions of Tytos.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

If Tyrion is a Targaryren, I can still see him having Lannister personality traits since his mom was a Lannister.

I think Tywin inadvertently created a mini version of himself when he put Tyrion through the Tysha incident. The same way Tywin was ruined by the embarrassing actions of Tytos.

excellent point! I had never thought of that. But I do agree that Tyrion is very very similar to Tywin, he just has a few more lovable qualities, and I think he is all-around a better person. even though he treats some women bad and murdered several people. :)

[Lord Varys]

Well, why would Tywin not kill/disinherit Tyrion even if he suspected that he was Aerys' bastard?

1. Tywin was the Hand of the King. Killing/murdering a son of the king might get him into trouble with Aerys. And for all we know, Tywin was afraid of the dragons/Aerys. He never dared to challenge them until they were helpless and had already lost.

2. Not raising Tyrion as his son would have shamed the name of House Lannister and would have made him a cuckold in the eyes of the public. The great Lord Tywin would have been ridiculed at court. It is one thing to father a bastard, but being the husband of unfaithful wife is not going better your reputation.

3. Tywin apparently worshiped Joanna. I can't see him murdering her child, nor can I see him declare her son a bastard in the sights of gods and men even if he was.

4. Since Joanna died upon Tyrion's birth he had no proof. He could never be sure.

Tyrion being Aerys' son could also explain a lot of stuff between Tyrion and Tywin:

1. Tywin bringing up Aerys when discussing Tyrion's character flaws.

2. Tywin being determined to prevent Tyrion from inheriting Casterly Rock. Despite all the issues Tywin had with Tyrion, this thing is completely irrational and problematic. Tywin openly defies the traditional Westerosi customs, especially since he never forced Tyrion to join the Faith/Citadel/Night's Watch (or killed him) as Randyll Tarly did with Samwell. Considering Jaime's status as knight of the Kingsguard, Tywin was actively creating a succession crisis for Casterly Rock here...

3. The whole Tysha thing seems to have been a sort of educational lesson from Tywin's POV. He honestly believed to better his son, to prepare him for what the world and especially (lowborn) women had in store for him.

4. Tywin's last words to Tyrion may actually have some real weight. He could not elaborate on them, but I'm not sure why he would have said that if he did not believe it.

5. The whole Shae-Tywin incident could make more sense this way. He was obsessed with the Targaryens, and wanted to marry his daughter into the royal house (Rhaegar or Viserys should marry Cersei). Sleeping with the whore of Aerys' bastard could have made Shae interesting for Tywin. But anyway, you have to be a very sick and twisted man to sleep with the mistress of your own son in the very night before said son's execution...

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Well, why would Tywin not kill/disinherit Tyrion even if he suspected that he was Aerys' bastard?

1. Tywin was the Hand of the King. Killing/murdering a son of the king might get him into trouble with Aerys. And for all we know, Tywin was afraid of the dragons/Aerys. He never dared to challenge them until they were helpless and had already lost.

2. Not raising Tyrion as his son would have shamed the name of House Lannister and would have made him a cuckold in the eyes of the public. The great Lord Tywin would have been ridiculed at court. It is one thing to father a bastard, but being the husband of unfaithful wife is not going better your reputation.

3. Tywin apparently worshiped Joanna. I can't see him murdering her child, nor can I see him declare her son a bastard in the sights of gods and men even if he was.

4. Since Joanna died upon Tyrion's birth he had no proof. He could never be sure.

Tyrion being Aerys' son could also explain a lot of stuff between Tyrion and Tywin:

1. Tywin bringing up Aerys when discussing Tyrion's character flaws.

Which quote are you referring to here? I would really like to know when Tywin brings up Aerys when discussing tyrion's flaws??

Very good points! I still think That Tywin couldn't have known about it for sure, maybe he did suspect. but The King Of the Starks was saying earlier, that if Tywin knew at all, he would have had Tyrion killed by someone else if not himself, and I think that is true. I think its better for the story if Tywin doesn't know, because then it is even more of a slap in the face to him, he obviously wanted to prove pretty badly that Tyrion wasn't his as he mentions it 3 or 4 times, and if he dies and never finds out the truth he got what he deserved IMO.

But I do agree that killing Tyrion or making it public knowledge would just make him look even worse in the eyes of the common folk. So even if he had an inkling, probably thought it was better to just sweep it under the rug.

But no mater what I think Tywin's last words "you are no son of mine" is very meaningful, 1st of all it's his last words which are always meaningful and 2nd of all, it either means that Tywin knows Tyrion wasn't his son or it was just a hint to the readers about Tyrion's true parentage. I just think it is way to important of a moment for it to just be a throw away insult to Tyrion. Don't you agree?

[Maryalice0919]

jaime and are the incestious targ. twins..

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I wanted to give this thread a bump and say that I have a ton more evidence towards this I will be adding into the OP over the next few days. There is hardly anything in my OP from DwD and now that we are doing a re-read of Tyrion's chapters for our Dany discussion I have discovered about 100 more hints to A+J=T. :)

Soon to come :)

[Dorian Martell]

This is what happened to Aerys


http://stuff.pyzam.com/funnypics/3/inbreeding.jpg

[Ramsay Gimp]

I was expecting an interesting analysis of Tywin and Aerys's relationship

Instead I found another "secret Targ" thread :bang:

What possible narrative purpose would it serve to make Tyrion the secret bastard of the Mad King, other than to partially validate all of Tywin and Cersei's distrust and hostility?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I was expecting an interesting analysis of Tywin and Aerys's relationship

Instead I found another "secret Targ" thread :bang:

What possible narrative purpose would it serve to make Tyrion the secret bastard of the Mad King, other than to partially validate all of Tywin and Cersei's distrust and hostility?

TYrion is not a 'secret' targ like Jon. He is just an accidental bastard, planted in the Lannister family to metaphorically and literally bring them down.

The Targaryens are notorious for sleeping around. Many generations of Targs have had multiple wives, many lovers, many children, many bastards. In PatQ we see them call forth the 'dragonseeds' which is a nice name for the 100's of bastards and children of bastards that have sprung up on this island where there are many many beautiful silver haired Targ men having liasions lots and lots and lots of women. Rhaegar had more than one wife, Aerys was known to have 'odd' tastes in the bedroom. What was the quote from D&E? "We might all be the bastards of Aegon" or something. Before Aerys's rule the Targs have ALWAYS had 'bastard' problems, hello Blackfyre anyone? There is no reason to think that all of a sudden there would be no more Targ bastards. Aerys was a good looking man, just like the rest of his family. Sure towards the end he got all Howard Hughes-ish, but that was only the last few years of his reign. In 272 when he would have conceived Tyrion he was still attractive, young and virile. This theory is so obvious to me. All that is required is for JOanna to have been in KL for a day or 2 sometimes early in the year of 272 AL. Which was exactly 10 years after Aerys' reign began. IMO this seems highly possible. Tywin was the Hand of the king, the entire Lannister family was close to the crown. We know Cersei was so close to Aerys that she is the one who personally asked him to let Jaime join to Kingsguard, which he obliged. These two families were VERY close.

[Boarsbane]

TYrion is not a 'secret' targ like Jon. He is just an accidental bastard, planted in the Lannister family to metaphorically and literally bring them down.

The Targaryens are notorious for sleeping around. Many generations of Targs have had multiple wives, many lovers, many children, many bastards. In PatQ we see them call forth the 'dragonseeds' which is a nice name for the 100's of bastards and children of bastards that have sprung up on this island where there are many many beautiful silver haired Targ men having liasions lots and lots and lots of women. Rhaegar had more than one wife, Aerys was known to have 'odd' tastes in the bedroom. What was the quote from D&E? "We might all be the bastards of Aegon" or something. Before Aerys's rule the Targs have ALWAYS had 'bastard' problems, hello Blackfyre anyone? There is no reason to think that all of a sudden there would be no more Targ bastards. Aerys was a good looking man, just like the rest of his family. Sure towards the end he got all Howard Hughes-ish, but that was only the last few years of his reign. In 272 when he would have conceived Tyrion he was still attractive, young and virile. This theory is so obvious to me. All that is required is for JOanna to have been in KL for a day or 2 sometimes early in the year of 272 AL. Which was exactly 10 years after Aerys' reign began. IMO this seems highly possible. Tywin was the Hand of the king, the entire Lannister family was close to the crown. We know Cersei was so close to Aerys that she is the one who personally asked him to let Jaime join to Kingsguard, which he obliged. These two families were VERY close.

He didn't accept Jaime into the KG because Cersei asked him, he did it to rob Tywin of his precious heir and piss him off more. Other than Tywin and Aerys the families weren't really close at all.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

He didn't accept Jaime into the KG because Cersei asked him, he did it to rob Tywin of his precious heir and piss him off more. Other than Tywin and Aerys the families weren't really close at all.

NOw this is simply not true. Joanna and Rhaella grew up together. Aerys and Tywin were friends until around 272 AL. Joanna and Aerys were also kids together at court and were close. Yes aerys had his own reasons for make Jaime a KG, but Cersei did ask him to do it, and Aerys did it. I am just saying that the Lannisters were close enough to the King for Cersei to be asking favors of him. Look all this up if you dont believe me. They were close, all of them were friends before 270-72 ish.

It is all in the books, the wiki and the app.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

A+J=T in Dance with Dragons(And a few excerpts from the WoW sample chapter)

Dance with Dragons

I am now adding in Tyrion's journey across Essos in DwD there are four main points which are all hints to him being a Targaryen. His dreams in DwD, The way he is constantly moving away from his family and the Lannisters, random hints towards his dragon heritage and how he has been obsessed with dragons his entire life, and all the hints towards him being a monster/gargoyle/chimera type figure. Which he is, he is a half lion/half dragon dwarf with 2 different colored eyes. Duality is very important in Tyrion's story in Dance.

Tyrions Dreams in DwD

Tyrion's dreams are a huge part of his story in DwD. His sleep/dreaming is mentioned more than once in every single chapter except the last one, it is obviously very important or it would not be brought up so much. We know that Targaryens have Prophetic dragon dreams, some of Tyrions dreams seem borderline prophetic to me. Certainly the one where he has 2 heads, may of the others may just be casual dreams however he seems to have dragons in so many of his dreams, not just in DwD, but throughout his entire life. We see that he has always had bad sleep, always had fitful dreams which cause him to loose sleep. During the first half of DwD Tyrion is dreaming of dragons almost every time he sleeps, then he goes through a period of not remembering his dreams, then they switch to being dreams about his father.

‘Sleep had never come easily to Tyrion Lannister. Aboard that ship it seldom came at all. Aboard that ship it seldom came at all, though from time to time he managed to drink sufficient wine to pass out for a while. At least he did not dream. He had dreamed enough for one small life. And of such follies; love, justice, friendship, glory. As well dream of being tall. It was all beyond his reach, Tyrion knew now.”

“He drained it down, and yawned, and filled it once again. If I drink enough fire wine, he told himself, perhaps I’ll dream of dragons.

When he was still a lonely child in the depths of Casterly Rock, he oft rode dragons through the nights, pretending he was some lost Targaryen Princeling, or a Valyrian dragonlord soaring high o’er fields and mountains. Once when his uncles asked him what gift he wanted for his name day, he begged them for a dragon. “It wouldn’t need to be a big one. It could be little, like I am.” His uncle Gerion thought that was the funniest thing he had ever heard, but his uncle Tygett said, “The last dragon died a century ago, lad.” That had seemed so monstrously unfair that the boy had cried himself to sleep that night.

Yet if the lord of cheese could be believed the Mad King’s daughter had hatched three living dragons. Two more than even a Targaryen should require.”

“I dreamed about the queen,” he said. “I was on my knees before her, swearing my allegiance, but she mistook me for my brother, Jaime, and fed me to her dragons.”

“Let us hope this dream was not prophetic.”

“That night TYrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. His father led the enemy, so he slew him once again. Then he killed his brother, Jaime, hacking at his face until it was a red ruin, laughing every time he struck a blow. Only when the fight was finished did he realize that his second head was weeping.”

“The dwarfs throat felt dry and raspy. He had dreamed….what had he dreamed? He did not remember,”

“They rode all night, with Tyrion sleeping fitfully, dozing against the pommel and waking suddenly.”

“Instead he drank water, and was condemned to sleepless nights and days of sweats and shakes. The dwarf sat up, cradling his head in his hands. Did I dream? All memory of it had fled. The nights had never been kind to Tyrion Lannister. He slept badly even on soft feather beds.”

“Tyrion had drunk himself blind his first night on the Shy Maid. The next day he awoke with dragons fighting in his skull. Griff took one look at him retching over the side of the poleboat, and said, “You are done with drink.”

“Wine helps me sleep,” Tyrion had protested, Wine drowns my dreams, he might have said.”

“How did you sleep?”

“Fitfully, good lady. I dreamed of you again.”

“He dreamt of his lord father and the Shrouded Lord, He dreamt that they were one and the same, and when his father wrapped stone arms around him and bent to give him his Grey kiss, he woke with his mouth dry and rusty with the taste of blood and his heart hammering in his chest.”

Tyrion shook his head to clear away the webs of dream.

The Sorrows are behind us. It was just a dream I dreamed I was drowning.”

“And the nights were worse. Tyrion slept badly at the best of times, and this was far from that. Sleep meant dreams like as not, and in his dreams the Sorrows waited, and a stony king with his father’s face.”

“Back in the cabin he shared with Jorah Mormont,Tyrion twisted in his hammock for hours, slipping in and out of sleep. His dreams were full of grey, stony hands reaching for him from out of the fog, and a stair that led up to his father.”

Tyrion moving away from house Lannister in his thoughts and feelings

Tyrion no longer relates to anyone in his family, he basically hates them all (with the exception of his long lost uncle Gerion).

He especially hates his father, has no remorse for killing him, and would gladly do it again given the opportunity. tywin has never been kind to tyrion, never caring, never fair. treated him like shit his entire life, and tyrion eventually kills him for it. the irony is, of course, that Tywin is not his biological father. I used to think that Tywin knew about Tyrion and that's why he was so cruel to him his whole life, but then the question is raised, 'Why didn't Tywin kill him?'. after thinking of that I changed my mind that TYwin did not know, and it was a secret Joanna had kept. now I am not sure either way, there are hints that Tywin knew for sure. So I will officially remain undecided on that point until we have further literature.

“And you had best be careful what you say of my family, magister. Kinslayer or no, I am a lion still.”

That seemed to amuse the lord of cheese no end. He slapped a meaty thigh and said, “You Westerosi are all the same. You sew some beast upon a scrap of silk, and suddenly you are all lions or dragons or eagles.”

“If it is useful occupation you require, useful occupation you shall have,” his father then said. So to mark his manhood, Tyrion was given charge of all the drains and cisterns of Casterly Rock. Perhaps he hoped I’d fall into one. But Tywin had been disappointed in that. The drains never drained half so well as when he had charge of them.

I need a cup of wine, to wash the taste of Tywin from my mouth.”

“Lord Tywin was sitting on a privy, so I put a crossbow bolt through his bowels to see if he really did shit gold. He didn’t. A pity, I could have used some gold. I also slew my mother, somewhat earlier. Oh, and my nephew Joffrey, I poisoned him at his wedding feast and watched him choke to death. Did the cheesemonger leave that part out? I mean to add my brother and sister to the list before I’m done, if it please your queen.

“The king I slew was sitting on her throne, and all those I betrayed were lions, so it seems to me that I have already done the queen good service.”

“There is blood between Targaryen and Lannister. Why would you support the cause of Queen Daenerys?”

“For gold and glory,” the dwarf said cheerfully. “Oh and hate. If you had ever met my sister, you would understand.”

“No matter, Griff. You are no knight and I am Hugor Hill, a little monster. Your little monster, if you like. You have my word, all that I desire is to be leal servant of your dragon queen.”

“And how do you propose to serve her?

“With my tongue.” He licked his fingers, one by one. “I can tell Her Grace how my sweet sister thinks, if you can call it thinking. I can tell her captains the best way to defeat my brother, Jaime in battle. I know which lords are brave and which are craven, which are loyal and which are venal. I can deliver allies to her. And I know much and more of dragons, as your halfmaester will tell you. I’m amusing too, and I don’t eat much. Consider me your own true imp.”

“The Mother and the Father made us in their image, Hugor. We should glory in our bodies, for they are the work of the gods,”

“The gods must have been drunk when they got to me.”

“My father threw me down a well the day I was born, but I was so ugly that the water witch who lived down there spat me back.”

“All that ended abruptly the day his father returned from a sojourn in KL. That night at supper Tyrion surprised his sire by walking the length of the high-table on his hands. Lord Tywin was not pleased. “The gods made you a dwarf. Must you be a fool as well? You were born a lion, not a monkey.”

“The slave soldiers of Volantis were fiercely proud of their tiger stripes, Tyrion knew. Do they yearn for freedom? He wondered. What would they do if this child queen bestowed it on them? What are they if not tigers? What am I, if not a lion?”

“….but to kill your own sire? How could any man do that?

“Give me a crossbow and pull down your breeches, and Ill show you.” Gladly.

“You think this is a jape?”

“I think life is a jape. Yours, mine, everyone’s.”

“The older man was accused of formenting rebellion and spying for the dragon queen.”

“And the young one?”

“Killed his father.”

Tyrion gave the rotting head a second look. Why it almost looks as if those lips are smiling.

“Think of the dead who might still live if Mad Aerys only had two fellow kings to share the rule.”

Instead he had my father, Tyrion thought.”

“But what if there is a hell and my father is waiting for me?”

“…..my hands are crusted with old blood aye. Call me kinslayer, and you wont be wrong. Kingslayer, I’ll have to answer to that one as well. I have killed mothers, fathers, nephews, lovers, men and women, kings and whores. As inger once annoyed me, so I had the bastard stewed. But I have never killed a juggler, nor a dwarf, and I am not to blame for what happened to your bloody brother.”

“His lord father had nto welcomed any reminders of his son’s deformities, and such mummers as featured little folk in their troupes soon learned to stay away from Lannisport and Casterly Rock, at the risk of his displeasure. “

“I Understand.’ He found himself thinking of Jaime. Count yourself lucky. Your brother died before he could betray you.”

“What a fraud you are, Imp. You let a hundred guardsmen rape your wife, shot your father through the belly with a quarrel, twisted a golden chain around your lover's throat until her face turned black, yet somehow you still think that you deserve to live.” (WoW)

“He sighed. "I would sell my sister for a cup of wine."
"You would sell your sister for a cup of horse piss." That was so unexpected that it made him laugh aloud. "Is my taste for horse piss so well-known or have you met my sister?" (WoW)

"They use slave soldiers, why not slave commanders? That would ruin the contest, though. This is just a cyvasse game to the Wise Masters. We're the pieces." Tyrion canted his head to one side, considering. "They have that in common with my lord father, these slavers." "Your father? What do you mean?" (WoW)

References to Tyrion being a Monster/Gargoyle/Chimera

“Do I offend you sweetling? I am an offensive creature, as my father would be glad to tell you if he were not dead and rotting.”

“Have you ever bedded a monster before?

“What a wretched creature I’ve become.”

“Monsters should be larger, it seems to me. You are worth a lordship back in Westeros, little man. Here, I fear, your worth is somewhat less. But I think I had best help you after all.”

“You are too kind,” Tyrion gave her his sweetest smile. “Perhaps you would remove these charming iron bracelets as well? This monster has but half a nose, and it itches most abominably.”

“No matter, Griff. You are no knight and I am Hugor Hill, a little monster. Your little monster, if you like."

“The Mother and the Father made us in their image, Hugor. We should glory in our bodies, for they are the work of the gods,”

“The gods must have been drunk when they got to me.”

“All that ended abruptly the day his father returned from a sojourn in KL. That night at supper Tyrion surprised his sire by walking the length of the high-table on his hands. Lord Tywin was not pleased. “The gods made you a dwarf. Must you be a fool as well? You were born a lion, not a monkey.”

“They hacked off her brother’s head in the hope that it was mine, yet here Is sit like some bloody gargoyle, offering empty consolations. If I were her, I’d want nothing more than to shove me into the sea.”

“Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all.”

References to Tyrion being Prophetic (a known rare Targaryen trait)

“I dreamed about the queen,” he said. “I was on my knees before her, swearing my allegiance, but she mistook me for my brother, Jaime, and fed me to her dragons.”

“Let us hope this dream was not prophetic.”

“He has been preaching that Volantis will surely burn if the triarchs take up arms against the silver queen.”

“That’s a prophecy even I could make. “

“One hero. Not two. Daenerys has dragons, Aegon does not. The dwarf did not need to be a prophet himself to forsee how Benerro and his followers might react to a second Targrayen. Griff will see that too, surely, he thought, surprised to find how much he cared.”

Random Hints and references regarding Tyrion to House Targaryen and how much research Tyrion has done on the subject of the Targaryen history and Dragons. Far more than anyone else in the books, including Dany.

Tyrion knows more about Dragons, dragon lore and dragon history than anyone else, he shames the Halfmaester by clearly knowing more details and specific books in reference to every single dragon story.

“He saw square brick towers, a great red temple, a distant manse upon a hill.”

--I believe this^^^ may be the manse that Dameon lived in while he was staying in Pentos during TRP.

“Tysha knew their number. Each of them had given her a silver stag, so she would only need to count the coins. A silver for each and a gold for me.”

“Perhaps you might smuggle me out under your skirts? I’d be so grateful; why, Ill even wed you. I have two wives already, why not three?”

“’You mistake me, I have no wish to die, I promise you. I have…….

‘You have nothing, ‘ finished Magister Illyrio, ‘but we can change that.”

__ To me this ^^^ is a statement about Tyrions whole life, he has ruined/destroyed the Lannister family, he hates them all and they all hate him. He can never go back to them. What he has here in Essos is a sister with Dragons, I think that is what Martin is referring to here. That we can change the fact that you have nothing to having a new family. A dragon family.

“Tyrion realized he would do well to be careful around Haldon Halfmaester. “Every dwarf is a bastard in his father’s eyes.

“No doubt. Well Hugor Hill, answer me this. How did Serwyn of the mirror shield slay the dragon Urrax?

“He approached behind his shield. Urrax saw only his own reflection until Serwyn had plunged his spear through his eye.”

Haldon was unimpressed. “Even Duck knows that tale. Can you tell me the name of the knight who tried the same ploy with Vhagar during the Dance of the Dragons?”

Tyrion grinned. “Ser Byron Swann. He was roasted for his trouble ….only the dragon was Syrax not Vhagar.”

“I fear that you’re mistaken. In The Dance of Dragons, A True Telling, Maester Munkun writes—“

“—that it was Vhagar. Grand Maester Munkun errs. Ser Byron’s squire saw his master die, and wrote his daughter of the manner of it. His account says it was Syrax, Rhaenyra’s she-dragon, which makes more sense than Munken’s version. Swann was the son of a marcher lord, and Storm’s end was for Aegon. Vhagar was ridden by Prince Aemond, Aegon’s brother. Why should Swann want to slay her?”

Haldon pursed his lips.

“The clouds in the sky were aglow: pink and purple, maroon and gold, pearl and saffron. One looked like a dragon. Once a man has seen a dragon in flight, let him stay at home and tend his garden in content, someone had written once, for this wide world has no greater wonder. Tyrion scratched at his scar and tried to recall the author’s name. Dragons had been much in his thoughts of late.”

"His other duty was anything but foolish. Duck has his sword, I my quill and parchment. Griff had commanded him to set down all he knew of dragonlore. The task was a formidable one, but the dwarf labored at it every day, scratching away as best he could as he sat cross-legged on the cabin roof.

Tyrion had read much and more of dragons through the years. The greater part of those accounts were idle tales and could not be relied on, and the books that Illyrio had provided them were not the ones he might have wished for. What he really wanted was the complete text of The Fires of the freehold, Galendro’s history of Valyria.”

He was less hopeful concerning Septon Barth’s Dragons, Wyrms and Wyverns; Their Unnatural History. Barth had been a blacksmith’s son who rose to be King’s Hand during the reign of Jaehaerys the Conciliator. His enemies always claimed he was more sorcerer than septon. Baelor the Blessed had ordered all Barth’s writings destroyed when he came to the Iron Throne. Ten Years ago, Tyrion had read a fragment of Unnatural History that had eluded the Blessed Baleor, but he doubted that any of Barth’s work had found its way across the narrow sea. And of course there was even less chance of his coming on the fragmentary, anonymous, blood-soaked tome sometimes called Blood and Fire and sometimes The Death of Dragons, the only surviving copy of which was supposedly hidden away in a locked vault beneath the Citadel.”

“The dwarf knew he sounded like a westerman, and a highborn westerman at that, so Hugor must needs be some lordling’s by-blow. “

“Tyrion stretched out a hand for his dragon.”

“Too rich, thought Tyrion, Too beautiful. It is never wise to tempt dragons. The drowned city was all around them. A half-seen shape flapped by overhead, pale and leathery wings beating at the fog. The dwarf craned his head around to get a better look, but the thing was gone as suddenly as it had appeared.”

--Ok so this is Drogon flying over Tyrions head, coincidence?? Coincidence that Drogon is this far away from home and that he happened to fly right over Tyrion when Tyrion was the only one looking who noticed the DRAGON that just flew over them? TYrion is the only POV (besides Dany) who has seen a dragon up to this point, can anyone really think this is a coincidence?

“One hero. Not two. Daenerys has dragons, Aegon does not. The dwarf did not need to be a prophet himself to forsee how Benerro and his followers might react to a second Targrayen. Griff will see that too, surely, he thought, surprised to find how much he cared.”

“We need swift passage to Meereen.”

One word. Tyrion Lannister’s world turned upside down.

One word. Meereen. Or had he misheard?

One word. Meereen, he said Meereen, he’s taking me to Meereen. Meereen meant life. Or hope for life at least.”

--Yes Meereen is life, Meereen is where your family and destiny are, it's where Dany and the dragons are.

“Nyesses and Malaquo have turned away from the light, he says, their hearts darkened by the yellow harpies from the east. He says….”

“Dragons. I understood that word. He said dragons.”

“Aye. The dragons have come to carry her to her glory.”

“Plots within plots, but all roads lead down the dragons gullet.”

“Someone told me the night is dark and full of terrors. What do you see in those flames?”

“Dragons”

“Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all.”

Direct foreshadowing towards Tyrion riding/taming/befriending Viserion.

“Tyrion almost grabbed his dragon but thought better of it. Last game he had brought her out too soon and lost her to a trebuchet.”

“He moved his catapult again, closed his hand around Tyrion’s alabaster dragon, removed it from the board.”

--alabaster is a stone that is gold and white, just like Viserion.

“Dead men and dragons were moving through the sky, whilst warships crashed and clashed on Slaver's Bay.” (WoW)

Three hundred yards from where he stood rose the Wicked Sister, her long arm swinging up with a clutch of corpses —chunk-THUMP—and there they flew, naked and swollen, pale dead birds tumbling boneless through the air. The siege camps shimmered in a gaudy haze of rose and gold, but the famous stepped pyramids of Meereen hulked black against the glare. Something was moving atop one of them, he saw. A dragon, but which one? At this distance, it could as easily have been an eagle. A very big eagle. (WoW)

"Something's happening." He went outside to discover what it was. Dragons.

The green beast was circling above the bay, banking and turning as longships and galleys clashed and burned below him, but it was the white dragon the sellswords were gawking at. Three hundred yards away the Wicked Sister swung her arm, chunk-THUMP, and six fresh corpses went dancing through the sky. Up they rose, and up, and up. Then two burst into flame.

The dragon caught one burning body just as it began to fall, crunching it between his jaws as pale fires ran across his teeth. White wings cracked against the morning air, and the beast began to climb again. The second corpse caromed off an outstretched claw and plunged straight down, to land amongst some Yunkish horsemen. Some of them caught fire too. One horse reared up and threw his rider. The others ran, trying to outrace the flames and fanning them instead. Tyrion Lannister could almost taste the panic as it rippled out across the camps.” (WoW)

By the time Plumm and his companions came galloping back from the camp of the Girl General, the white dragon had flown back to its lair above Meereen. (WoW)

The white cyvasse dragon ended up at Tyrion's feet. He scooped it off the carpet and wiped it on his sleeve, but some of the Yunkish blood had collected in the fine grooves of the carving, so the pale wood seemed veined with red. "All hail our beloved queen, Daenerys." Be she alive or be she dead. He tossed the bloody dragon in the air, caught it, grinned. "We have always been the queen's men," announced Brown Ben Plumm. "Rejoining the Yunkai'i was just a plot."(WoW)

[Wmarshal]

Below is what I just added to the OP. I still have much more to put in, but I am still working on it.

Dance with Dragons

I am now adding in Tyrion's journey across Essos in DwD there are four main points which are all hints to him being a Targaryen. His dreams in DwD, The way he is constantly moving away from his family and the Lannisters, random hints towards his dragon heritage and how he has been obsessed with dragons his entire life, and all the hints towards him being a monster/gargoyle/chimera type figure. Which he is, he is a half lion/half dragon dwarf with 2 different colored eyes. Duality is very important in Tyrion's story in Dance.

Tyrions Dreams in DwD (incomplete for a few more days)

Tyrion's dreams are a huge part of his story in DwD. His sleep/dreaming is mentioned more than once in every single chapter except the last one, it is obviously very important or it would not be brought up so much. We know that Targaryens have Prophetic dragon dreams, some of Tyrions dreams seem borderline prophetic to me. Certainly the one where he has 2 heads, may of the others may just be casual dreams however he seems to have dragons in so many of his dreams, not just in DwD, but throughout his entire life. We see that he has always had bad sleep, always had fitful dreams which cause him to loose sleep. During the first half of DwD Tyrion is dreaming of dragons almost every time he sleeps, then he goes through a period of not remembering his dreams, then they switch to being dreams about his father.

Sleep had never come easily to Tyrion Lannister. Aboard that ship it seldom came at all. Aboard that ship it seldom came at all, though from time to time he managed to drink sufficient wine to pass out for a while. At least he did not dream. He had dreamed enough for one small life. And of such follies; love, justice, friendship, glory. As well dream of being tall. It was all beyond his reach, Tyrion knew now.

He drained it down, and yawned, and filled it once again. If I drink enough fire wine, he told himself, perhaps Ill dream of dragons.

When he was still a lonely child in the depths of Casterly Rock, he oft rode dragons through the nights, pretending he was some lost Targaryen Princeling, or a Valyrian dragonlord soaring high oer fields and mountains. Once when his uncles asked him what gift he wanted for his name day, he begged them for a dragon. It wouldnt need to be a big one. It could be little, like I am. His uncle Gerion thought that was the funniest thing he had ever heard, but his uncle Tygett said, The last dragon died a century ago, lad. That had seemed so monstrously unfair that the boy had cried himself to sleep that night.

Yet if the lord of cheese could be believed the Mad Kings daughter had hatched three living dragons. Two more than even a Targaryen should require.

I dreamed about the queen, he said. I was on my knees before her, swearing my allegiance, but she mistook me for my brother, Jaime, and fed me to her dragons.

Let us hope this dream was not prophetic.

That night TYrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. His father led the enemy, so he slew him once again. Then he killed his brother, Jaime, hacking at his face until it was a red ruin, laughing every time he struck a blow. Only when the fight was finished did he realize that his second head was weeping.

The dwarfs throat felt dry and raspy. He had dreamed.what had he dreamed? He did not remember,

They rode all night, with Tyrion sleeping fitfully, dozing against the pommel and waking suddenly.

Instead he drank water, and was condemned to sleepless nights and days of sweats and shakes. The dwarf sat up, cradling his head in his hands. Did I dream? All memory of it had fled. The nights had never been kind to Tyrion Lannister. He slept badly even on soft feather beds.

Tyrion had drunk himself blind his first night on the Shy Maid. The next day he awoke with dragons fighting in his skull. Griff took one look at him retching over the side of the poleboat, and said, You are done with drink.

Wine helps me sleep, Tyrion had protested, Wine drowns my dreams, he might have said.

How did you sleep?

Fitfully, good lady. I dreamed of you again.

He dreamt of his lord father and the Shrouded Lord, He dreamt that they were one and the same, and when his father wrapped stone arms around him and bent to give him his Grey kiss, he woke with his mouth dry and rusty with the taste of blood and his heart hammering in his chest.

Tyrion shook his head to clear away the webs of dream.

The Sorrows are behind us. It was just a dream I dreamed I was drowning.

These aren't prophetic, these are dreams. He will never be tall, and as he just passed the sorrows, dreaming of the shrouded man is understood. Dream of dragons isn't prophetic, a special for a dragon nerd like Tyrion.

Tyrion moving away from house Lannister in his thoughts and feelings (unfinished for a few days)

Tyrion no longer relates to anyone in his family, he basically hates them all (with the exception of his long lost uncle Gerion).

He especially hates his father, has no remorse for killing him, and would gladly do it again given the opportunity. tywin has never been kind to tyrion, never caring, never fair. treated him like shit his entire life, and tyrion eventually kills him for it. the irony is, of course, that Tywin is not his biological father. I used to think that Tywin knew abotu Tyrion and that's why he was so cruel to him his whole life, but the the question is raised, 'Why didn't Tywin kill him?'. after thinking of that I changed my mind that TYwin did not know, and it was a secret Joanna had kept. now I am not sure either way, there are hint that Tywin knew for sure. So I will officially remain undecided on that point until we have further literature.

Because his dad had him rape his wife, his brother knew about it, and Cersei just tried to kill him. This is only irony if your theory is true, it is not a hint.

And you had best be careful what you say of my family, magister. Kinslayer or no, I am a lion still.

That seemed to amuse the lord of cheese no end. He slapped a meaty thigh and said, You Westerosi are all the same. You sew some beast upon a scrap of silk, and suddenly you are all lions or dragons or eagles.

If it is useful occupation you require, useful occupation you shall have, his father then said. So to mark his manhood, Tyrion was given charge of all the drains and cisterns of Casterly Rock. Perhaps he hoped Id fall into one. But Tywin had been disappointed in that. The drains never drained half so well as when he had charge of them.

I need a cup of wine, to wash the taste of Tywin from my mouth.

Lord Tywin was sitting on a privy, so I put a crossbow bolt through his bowels to see if he really did shit gold. He didnt. A pity, I could have used some gold. I also slew my mother, somewhat earlier. Oh, and my nephew Joffrey, I poisoned him at his wedding feast and watched him choke to death. Did the cheesemonger leave that part out? I mean to add my brother and sister to the list before Im done, if it please your queen.

The king I slew was sitting on her throne, and all those I betrayed were lions, so it seems to me that I have already done the queen good service.

There is blood between Targaryen and Lannister. Why would you support the cause of Queen Daenerys?

For gold and glory, the dwarf said cheerfully. Oh and hate. If you had ever met my sister, you would understand.

No matter, Griff. You are no knight and I am Hugor Hill, a little monster. Your little monster, if you like. You have my word, all that I desire is to be leal servant of your dragon queen.

And how do you propose to serve her?

With my tongue. He licked his fingers, one by one. I can tell Her Grace how my sweet sister thinks, if you can call it thinking. I can tell her captains the best way to defeat my brother, Jaime in battle. I know which lords are brave and which are craven, which are loyal and which are venal. I can deliver allies to her. And I know much and more of dragons, as your halfmaester will tell you. Im amusing too, and I dont eat much. Consider me your own true imp.

The Mother and the Father made us in their image, Hugor. We should glory in our bodies, for they are the work of the gods,

The gods must have been drunk when they got to me.

My father threw me down a well the day I was born, but I was so ugly that the water witch who lived down there spat me back.

All that ended abruptly the day his father returned from a sojourn in KL. That night at supper Tyrion surprised his sire by walking the length of the high-table on his hands. Lord Tywin was not pleased. The gods made you a dwarf. Must you be a fool as well? You were born a lion, not a monkey.

The slave soldiers of Volantis were fiercely proud of their tiger stripes, Tyrion knew. Do they yearn for freedom? He wondered. What would they do if this child queen bestowed it on them? What are they if not tigers? What am I, if not a lion?

.but to kill your own sire? How could any man do that?

Give me a crossbow and pull down your breeches, and Ill show you. Gladly.

You think this is a jape?

I think life is a jape. Yours, mine, everyones.

The older man was accused of formenting rebellion and spying for the dragon queen.

And the young one?

Killed his father.

Tyrion gave the rotting head a second look. Why it almost looks as if those lips are smiling.

Think of the dead who might still live if Mad Aerys only had two fellow kings to share the rule.

Instead he had my father, Tyrion thought.

References to Tyrion being a Monster/Gargoyle/Chimera (unfinished for a few days)

Do I offend you sweetling? I am an offensive creature, as my father would be glad to tell you if he were not dead and rotting.

Have you ever bedded a monster before?

What a wretched creature Ive become.

Monsters should be larger, it seems to me. You are worth a lordship back in Westeros, little man. Here, I fear, your worth is somewhat less. But I think I had best help you after all.

You are too kind, Tyrion gave her his sweetest smile. Perhaps you would remove these charming iron bracelets as well? This monster has but half a nose, and it itches most abominably.

The Mother and the Father made us in their image, Hugor. We should glory in our bodies, for they are the work of the gods,

The gods must have been drunk when they got to me.

All that ended abruptly the day his father returned from a sojourn in KL. That night at supper Tyrion surprised his sire by walking the length of the high-table on his hands. Lord Tywin was not pleased. The gods made you a dwarf. Must you be a fool as well? You were born a lion, not a monkey.

A Targaryen is no real monster, or close to gargoyle. Tywin lannister was monster of man like Tyrion.

References to Tyrion being Prophetic (a known rare Targaryen trait) (unfinished for a few days)

I dreamed about the queen, he said. I was on my knees before her, swearing my allegiance, but she mistook me for my brother, Jaime, and fed me to her dragons.

Let us hope this dream was not prophetic.

That is not prophetic, unless you believe Tyrion's dream at the end of the blackwater prophetic.

He has been preaching that Volantis will surely burn if the triarchs take up arms against the silver queen.

Thats a prophecy even I could make.

He is making of the idea of prophecies.

One hero. Not two. Daenerys has dragons, Aegon does not. The dwarf did not need to be a prophet himself to forsee how Benerro and his followers might react to a second Targrayen. Griff will see that too, surely, he thought, surprised to find how much he cared.

Again saying common sense is used not magic.

Random Hints and references regarding Tyrion to House Targaryen and how much research Tyrion has done on the subject of the Targaryen history and Dragons. Far more than anyone else in the books, including Dany. (unfinished)

Tyrion knows more about Dragons, dragon lore and dragon history than anyone else, he shames the Halfmaester by clearly knowing more details and specific books in reference to every single dragon story.

As did a random septon two hundred years before, knowing stuff about dragons doesn't make you a targ, but smart.

He saw square brick towers, a great red temple, a distant manse upon a hill.

--I believe this^^^ may be the manse that Dameon lived in while he was staying in Pentos during TRP.

That is a guess.

Tysha knew their number. Each of them had given her a silver stag, so she would only need to count the coins. A silver for each and a gold for me.

Perhaps you might smuggle me out under your skirts? Id be so grateful; why, Ill even wed you. I have two wives already, why not three?

You mistake me, I have no wish to die, I promise you. I have.

You have nothing, finished Magister Illyrio, but we can change that.

__ To me this ^^^ is a statement about Tyrions whole life, he has ruined/destroyed the Lannister family, he hates them all and they all hate him. He can never go back to them. What he has here in Essos is a sister with Dragons, I think that is what Martin is referring to here. That we can change the fact that you have nothing to having a new family. A dragon family.

He doesn't want a new family, just kill his old one and start a new as the lord of the West.

Tyrion realized he would do well to be careful around Haldon Halfmaester. Every dwarf is a bastard in his fathers eyes.

No doubt. Well Hugor Hill, answer me this. How did Serwyn of the mirror shield slay the dragon Urrax?

He approached behind his shield. Urrax saw only his own reflection until Serwyn had plunged his spear through his eye.

Haldon was unimpressed. Even Duck knows that tale. Can you tell me the name of the knight who tried the same ploy with Vhagar during the Dance of the Dragons?

Tyrion grinned. Ser Byron Swann. He was roasted for his trouble .only the dragon was Syrax not Vhagar.

I fear that youre mistaken. In The Dance of Dragons, A True Telling, Maester Munkun writes

that it was Vhagar. Grand Maester Munkun errs. Ser Byrons squire saw his master die, and wrote his daughter of the manner of it. His account says it was Syrax, Rhaenyras she-dragon, which makes more sense than Munkens version. Swann was the son of a marcher lord, and Storms end was for Aegon. Vhagar was ridden by Prince Aemond, Aegons brother. Why should Swann want to slay her?

Haldon pursed his lips.

The clouds in the sky were aglow: pink and purple, maroon and gold, pearl and saffron. One looked like a dragon. Once a man has seen a dragon in flight, let him stay at home and tend his garden in content, someone had written once, for this wide world has no greater wonder. Tyrion scratched at his scar and tried to recall the authors name. Dragons had been much in his thoughts of late.

His other duty was anything but foolish. Duck has his sword, I my quill and parchment. Griff had commanded him to set down all he knew of dragonlore. The task was a formidable one, but the dwarf labored at it every day, scratching away as best he could as he sat cross-legged on the cabin roof.

Tyrion had read much and more of dragons through the years. The greater part of those accounts were idle tales and could not be relied on, and the books that Illyrio had provided them were not the ones he might have wished for. What he really wanted was the complete text of The Fires of the freehold, Galendros history of Valyria.

He was less hopeful concerning Septon Barths Dragons, Wyrms and Wyverns; Their Unnatural History. Barth had been a blacksmiths son who rose to be Kings Hand during the reign of Jaehaerys the Conciliator. His enemies always claimed he was more sorcerer than septon. Baelor the Blessed had ordered all Barths writings destroyed when he came to the Iron Throne. Ten Years ago, Tyrion had read a fragment of Unnatural History that had eluded the Blessed Baleor, but he doubted that any of Barths work had found its way across the narrow sea. And of course there was even less chance of his coming on the fragmentary, anonymous, blood-soaked tome sometimes called Blood and Fire and sometimes The Death of Dragons, the only surviving copy of which was supposedly hidden away in a locked vault beneath the Citadel.

The dwarf knew he sounded like a westerman, and a highborn westerman at that, so Hugor must needs be some lordlings by-blow.

Tyrion stretched out a hand for his dragon.

Too rich, thought Tyrion, Too beautiful. It is never wise to tempt dragons. The drowned city was all around them. A half-seen shape flapped by overhead, pale and leathery wings beating at the fog. The dwarf craned his head around to get a better look, but the thing was gone as suddenly as it had appeared.

--Ok so this is Drogon flying over Tyrions head, coincidence?? Coincidence that Drogon is this far away from home and that he happened to fly right over Tyrion when Tyrion was the only one looking who noticed the DRAGON that just flew over them? TYrion is the only POV (besides Dany) who has seen a dragon up to this point, can anyone really think this is a coincidence?

He has been preaching that Volantis will surely burn if the triarchs take up arms against the silver queen.

Thats a prophecy even I could make.

Do I offend you sweetling? I am an offensive creature, as my father would be glad to tell you if he were not dead and rotting.

Have you ever bedded a monster before?

What a wretched creature Ive become.

One hero. Not two. Daenerys has dragons, Aegon does not. The dwarf did not need to be a prophet himself to forsee how Benerro and his followers might react to a second Targrayen. Griff will see that too, surely, he thought, surprised to find how much he cared.

We need swift passage to Meereen.

One word. Tyrion Lannisters world turned upside down.

One word. Meereen. Or had he misheard?

One word. Meereen, he said Meereen, hes taking me to Meereen. Meereen meant life. Or hope for life at least.

--Yes Meereen is life, Meereen is where your family and destiny are, it's where Dany and the dragons are.

Plots within plots, but all roads lead down the dragons gullet.

Direct foreshadowing towards Tyrion riding/taming/befriending Viserion.(unfinished)

Tyrion almost grabbed his dragon but thought better of it. Last game he had brought her out too soon and lost her to a trebuchet.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

WMarshal, do you have something to add???

[Wmarshal]

Yes, and I am down.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Yes, and I am down.

OH lol, I didnt even see that you had written responses.

Thank you, I can almost understand what you are saying.

You cannot quote posts like that it is impossible to read.

[Arya Havinfun]

“Too rich, thought Tyrion, Too beautiful. It is never wise to tempt dragons. The drowned city was all around them. A half-seen shape flapped by overhead, pale and leathery wings beating at the fog. The dwarf craned his head around to get a better look, but the thing was gone as suddenly as it had appeared.”

--Ok so this is Drogon flying over Tyrions head, coincidence?? Coincidence that Drogon is this far away from home and that he happened to fly right over Tyrion when Tyrion was the only one looking who noticed the DRAGON that just flew over them? TYrion is the only POV (besides Dany) who has seen a dragon up to this point, can anyone really think this is a coincidence?

Ser Barristan and Quentin are POVs who saw the dragons too.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I said, up to that point in the novel. Barristan had not even had a chapter yet.