Agulla Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I'm so happy that GRRM has not turned any of his bands of grizzled veterans into softhearted men. On the contrary, most of them are just a bunch of maniacs. On those who would approach this definition (BWB) are scary and not softhearted at all. And yes, as far as I've read the "thieves guild" in The Lies of Locke Lamora is really cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hark Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Wert, you say true. However for some reason, Erikson's abundant use of cliches doesn't bother me in the slightest. He manages to make me greatful for the cliches. I think it's because he uses prepackages concepts as a shortcut around some of the world building that gets tedious. His world is so complex that he can't afford to spend 200 pages developing each character. So he shoves a preconceived notion into the reader's mind, and builds off of it. To me, that's brilliant. It's like buying frozen pie crust at the grocery store so you can spend more time on what goes inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 That's still my ASIOAF nightmare. The bastard boy who is really the heir to the throne leads his dragonriding princess, the wisecracking dwarf, the magic using crippled boy and his brooding sister (who just happens to be a master assassin) off into the trackless north to face the great other. That's the funniest thing I've read in awhile. I'll have to go with mastering a weapon in the span of a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agulla Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Inns and Taverns. Because, without them no Band of Heroes would have ever assembled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regina Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Inns and Taverns. Too true. After all, the inns and taverns are also the home of the barmaid-with-heart-of-gold who banters with our heros and provides a possible love interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupigis Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 The Band of Heroes. :cool: A group of varied, and in many cases opposed, characters that join in a quest to achieve something important. Why on Earth destroying your local unfriendly dark lord always involves a long travel through remote areas infested with his minions? You realise that GRRM has done exactly this. In AFFC we get a hero on a sworn quest travelling the land and having adventures together with a comerade in arms, loyal servant and grizzeled spiritual advisor for several chapters. For myself, I quite enjoyed that storyline, even though they ended up in the noose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add-on Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Too true. After all, the inns and taverns are also the home of the barmaid-with-heart-of-gold who banters with our heros and provides a possible love interest. Not to mention those fat, friendly inkeepers. Also, the god-awful cover art tends to get a little annoying. :sick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Starfall Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 For myself, I quite enjoyed that storyline, even though they ended up in the noose... I suspect that if more Bands of Heros ended up swinging from a noose, the concept would be a little more platable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Girl Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Also, the god-awful cover art tends to get a little annoying. :sick: That's an understatement if I ever heard one. Where do they find these artists??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 magickes. mythological creatures. haughty heroics. motiveless malignancy. religion without theology. battles without logistics. sex without pornography. non-creative anachronism. arriere garde politics. tendentious allegory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hark Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 magickes. mythological creatures. haughty heroics. motiveless malignancy. religion without theology. battles without logistics. sex without pornography. non-creative anachronism. arriere garde politics. tendentious allegory. Oh, so you don't like fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Girl Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Most people are probably aware of this, but Diana Wynne Jones has a couple nice books that send up the fantasy stereotypes, one of which is Dark Lord of Derkholm. The idea is that off-worlders come for "Fantasy" tourist vacations where they meet bewitching ladies, evil lords, bandits, demons, etc., and participate in semi-mock battles to complete their "quest". It's told from the side of the people having to put on the tours in their magical but non-stereotypical world. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 hark-- it's an odd masochism, i guess. i really do hate the standard role call of fantasy figures of thought, well-indexed by clute & grant, such as the polder, the pariah elite, the seven samurai, the wandering jew, the elder race, the elder gods, thinning, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agulla Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Lupigis, Their terrible fate redeems them but I think that this band of Heroes of AFFC had already been redeemed by their own anti quest. Consider this, a Band of Heroes that is looking for a maid in a land ravaged by war and famine. They are clueless; they just stumble from one place to another. The real main character here is the landscape and the people they meet. The stories and legends they hear, not the band of Heroes. It's just the opposite than the usual quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupigis Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Agulla, I agree. On one of the blurbs (I think it's for AGOT) it says "Martin subverts the cliches of epic fantasy" or something like that, and his ability to do that is really one of his greatest qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Most people are probably aware of this, but Diana Wynne Jones has a couple nice books that send up the fantasy stereotypes, one of which is Dark Lord of Derkholm. The idea is that off-worlders come for "Fantasy" tourist vacations where they meet bewitching ladies, evil lords, bandits, demons, etc., and participate in semi-mock battles to complete their "quest". It's told from the side of the people having to put on the tours in their magical but non-stereotypical world. Good stuff. Actually, I think this idea developed out of Diana Jones' Tough Guide to Fantasyland which is utterly hilarious. The bit about how horses are always stallions, occasionally geldlings but rarely mares thus proves that horses breed in Fantasyland via pollination was brilliant. Also the bit about the city where our heroes have to stop roughly 75% of the way through the story to enjoy a pictureseque SIEGE for a couple of days before being allowed access to the SECRET TUNNEL which will lead them onto the next stage of the journey. IIRC there was also something the premiums on life insurance for old, grizzled wizards serving as MENTORs being improbably high. hark-- it's an odd masochism, i guess. i really do hate the standard role call of fantasy figures of thought, well-indexed by clute & grant, such as the polder, the pariah elite, the seven samurai, the wandering jew, the elder race, the elder gods, thinning, and so on. Indeed. Anyone who is interested in fantasy deserves to have a copy of The Encyclopedia of Fantasy on their bookshelf (after it's been massively reinforced, naturally), as well as the same authors' Encyclopedia of SF. Greatest genre reference tomes ever. 3rd Editions of both are currently being prepped, although they are going to be CD-ROMs constantly updated online to solve the space problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Girl Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Actually, I think this idea developed out of Diana Jones' Tough Guide to Fantasyland which is utterly hilarious. So I've heard...I knew this one preceded Derkholm but haven't read it. And apparently it's out of print. I'll go on a hunt for it someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 are going to be CD-ROMs constantly updated werty-- i had no idea. awesome. thanks for the data! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 No probs. The SF one is being done first and will be published in late 2007. The deal for the Fantasy one isn't certain yet but seems fairly likely. David Langford's legendary (and 26-times-Hugo-Award-winning) Ansible website may contain occasional updates on the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 My fantasy pet peeve has to be the let's-tell-you-the-plot-beforehand prophecy. I am eternally grateful to Tad Williams for turning that particular cliche on its head in Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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