Small Questions v 10011

[Queen Elsa]

The previous Night King was a Stark, do any of you think if another Night King appears in the story it will be a Stark?

We only have a few Starks that remain: Benjen (lost), Jon (alive or dead?), Bran (possible. The NK was named Bran too, emirite? according to Old Nan), and Rickon (too young and far away). Not sure if there will be another NK though coz the Others are coming and there's not much time for a Stark to declare himself a NK.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Since when was it 100% a Stark?

Old Nan identifies him as brother to a previous King of the north, I think.

[Kuther2000]

I know alot of people probably don't agree, but I don't think Jeor should have given Longclaw to Jon. I mean this is his House's ancestral sword. It has been wielded by Mormonts for centuries. Jon can't be the first person to save his life. Valryian steel is prized above all. Tywin would have given a left nut to have one. Families who are poor as hell wouldn't sell their swords.

This is a prized family possession that should have stayed in the family. It's okay for Maege to send it to Joer for now since he is the only adult male around and he is at the Wall, but when Jeor died it should been given back to House Mormont to be used by the next generation.

I could understand him giving it away if his House didn't exist anymore and he was the last of his line which would have been much more acceptable but House Mormont still exists.

Hypothetically: This is essentially like Ned giving away Ice to Jory Cassel or Robert Baratheon or someone else who saved his life. Readers had a fit with what Tywin did to Ice and felt it should have been returned to House Stark like Dawn was returned to House Dawn.

All in all, I think it was given to Jon by GRRM so we can be like what a cool sword Jon has. He is so awesome. :bowdown:

[Ser Leftwich]

The previous Night King was a Stark, do any of you think if another Night King appears in the story it will be a Stark?

“Some say he was a Bolton,” Old Nan would always end. “Some say a Magnar out of Skagos, some say Umber, Flint, or Norrey. Some would have you think he was a Woodfoot, from them who ruled Bear Island before the ironmen came. He never was. He was a Stark, the brother of the man who brought him down.” She always pinched Bran on the nose then, he would never forget it. “He was a Stark of Winterfell, and who can say? Mayhaps his name was Brandon. Mayhaps he slept in this very bed in this very room.” ASoS p. 762

Possibly a Stark, but unconfirmed, at best.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

[...] mayhaps [...]

Possibly a Stark, but unconfirmed, at best.

Indeed. I think it's important to note that one word which implies that Old Nan is including these speculations about the Night King's id for the creepiness, not because she seriously thinks it's true. In case the nose pinching didn't make that clear already.

[Ghost's Shadow]

George has never said that all that Old Nan says is 100% true.

It's a story about supposedly 8,000 years ago, minus the time needed for there having been 12 LCs before him.

Perhaps, by the end we'll know exactly what went on and how many years ago, but it's not going to be a surprise to me at all if the time and the what and how and TLH's stuff didn't happen like that.

Amen @ saying there's no time for there to be a second NK to possibly mate with a female Other to make what? Male Others?

[Lissa Nymeros Martell]

The Joer / Jon connection made me curious; checking out Bear Island on the ASOIAF map I see that Bear Island is very close to the Frozen Shore. Reading history of the Mormont's they say that their ancestors were skinchangers. Perhaps the Mormont's and Bear Island has a closer connection to the wildings and more historical knowledge of the White Walkers than we may realize?

Maybe seeing the wight's in his chamber made LC Mormont realize that the "stories" he heard about the Other's weren't stories at all. He gave Jon Longclaw not just because he saved his life, but as a way for Jon to battle the WW. LC Mormont had no male heirs capable of taking up the challenge of battling the WW. Perhaps the dark ripples in the sword's blade are not just valyrian steel but obsidian as well?

While at Craster's keep; LC Mormont didn't seem surprised about Craster's son. He reaction seemed as if the sotry confirmed a theory he was expecting to hear.

____________

Researching the history of Bear Island I found that there seems to be a trend of Night's Watch Lord Commanders from that general "Bay of Ice" area: House Harren, "House" Flint, and now House Mormont. Most notably higher ranking Lords that seem to have volunteered. And LC who stayed at the Wall when other's may have left?

When Black Harren burned at Harrenhal, his brother commanded the Night's Watch, and did not intervene.

AGOT: Jon 60

ETA: Removed the quotes that were already mentioned above.

[Renots]

First post, Hi everybody!

I don't really know if this is a small question, but I don't think it deserves a thread of it's own.

It seems to me a lot of people think "The great other" is a physical person/leader of the others. The way I understood the text, the great other is the counterpoint to R'hllor in Mel's religion, think the Devil to God in Christianity.

Am I missing something here?

[The Dornishman's Wife]

[...]

Welcome to the forum! :grouphug:

Yes, the "great Other" is Melisandre's way of referring to her religion's devil without speaking his name (which apparently is a taboo).

Some people suppose that this entity is real and also the leader/king/queen bee of the Others, but there is little in the text to lock that supposition in (and I personally find it highly unlikely).

[Ghost's Shadow]

I also thought it was said that we wouldn't be seeing any Gods? Just like Rahloo isn't an entity we'll meet, the Great Other won't be either, imo.

[Renots]

Welcome to the forum! :grouphug:

Yes, the "great Other" is Melisandre's way of referring to her religion's devil without speaking his name (which apparently is a taboo).

Some people suppose that this entity is real and also the leader/king/queen bee of the Others, but there is little in the text to lock that supposition in (and I personally find it highly unlikely).

Thank you, I thought that was what the books said, but I let my father borrow them and can't check at the moment. Then I saw a bunch of people on the forum referring to him as a leader of the Others, and since GRRM said he would have no gods in human form(paraphrase) I knew both couldn't be true.

Thanks again!

[Renots]

The Joer / Jon connection made me curious; checking out Bear Island on the ASOIAF map I see that Bear Island is very close to the Frozen Shore. Reading history of the Mormont's they say that their ancestors were skinchangers. Perhaps the Mormont's and Bear Island has a closer connection to the wildings and more historical knowledge of the White Walkers than we may realize?

Maybe seeing the wight's in his chamber made LC Mormont realize that the "stories" he heard about the Other's weren't stories at all. He gave Jon Longclaw not just because he saved his life, but as a way for Jon to battle the WW. LC Mormont had no male heirs capable of taking up the challenge of battling the WW. Perhaps the dark ripples in the sword's blade are not just valyrian steel but obsidian as well?

While at Craster's keep; LC Mormont didn't seem surprised about Craster's son. He reaction seemed as if the sotry confirmed a theory he was expecting to hear.

____________

Researching the history of Bear Island I found that there seems to be a trend of Night's Watch Lord Commanders from that general "Bay of Ice" area: House Harren, "House" Flint, and now House Mormont. Most notably higher ranking Lords that seem to have volunteered. And LC who stayed at the Wall when other's may have left?

AGOT: Jon 60

ETA: Removed the quotes that were already mentioned above.

It's hinted in Sam and Jon's conversation before Sam leaves for Old Town that Valyrian steel(dragon steel) will kill the Others as well, so no need for there to be obsidian in the blade.

As far as why the sword was sent to Mormont then given to Jon, it just seems like the easiest way for Jon to obtain a Valyrian sword, plot wise.

[mindchap]

Lol, yeah, nice summary.

Jeor did not really use it after it was sent to him, if I recall correctly?

You're right. The Mormonts are also fighters, the daughters could have used it during the war but didn't, and so it seems the 'real' reason the sword is at the Wall is to be given to Jon.

Maybe the Mormonts have the tradition of only giving the sword to the males and the son was too young? After Jeor were to die, the sword should have been given to the Mormonts once more so maybe it wasn't considered a loss to the Mormonts to send it to Jeor for now?

I've got nothing, really. :lol:

Not 100% on this but don't the Mormonts we see in the story, aside from Jorah, use heavier weapons?

I know alot of people probably don't agree, but I don't think Jeor should have given Longclaw to Jon. I mean this is his House's ancestral sword. It has been wielded by Mormonts for centuries. Jon can't be the first person to save his life. Valryian steel is prized above all. Tywin would have given a left nut to have one. Families who are poor as hell wouldn't sell their swords.

This is a prized family possession that should have stayed in the family. It's okay for Maege to send it to Joer for now since he is the only adult male around and he is at the Wall, but when Jeor died it should been given back to House Mormont to be used by the next generation.

I could understand him giving it away if his House didn't exist anymore and he was the last of his line which would have been much more acceptable but House Mormont still exists.

Hypothetically: This is essentially like Ned giving away Ice to Jory Cassel or Robert Baratheon or someone else who saved his life. Readers had a fit with what Tywin did to Ice and felt it should have been returned to House Stark like Dawn was returned to House Dawn.

All in all, I think it was given to Jon by GRRM so we can be like what a cool sword Jon has. He is so awesome. :bowdown:

I don't think it was so much that he saved his life but what he saved him from. That's really the first widely known Wight attack at the Wall and Jon went after it, pretty ballsy for a rookie.

[Lost Melnibonean]

It's hinted in Sam and Jon's conversation before Sam leaves for Old Town that Valyrian steel(dragon steel) will kill the Others as well, so no need for there to be obsidian in the blade.

As far as why the sword was sent to Mormont then given to Jon, it just seems like the easiest way for Jon to obtain a Valyrian sword, plot wise.

Third post and your answers are spot on.

[mindchap]

Has anyone come across any other references to a magical marriage? GRRM mentions the term in an SSM about marriage.

This is from the SSM, the whole thing is a bit longer and the link is up above:

This wasn't a political marriage, nor a magical one, it was simply an example of human nature.

[Trinton07]

How many ships does Euron command? There's one part when the shield islands were just attacked where Margery is all like "1,000 ships! we must respond." or s/t like that. is that accurate? cuz cersci seemed skeptical. do we know the exact numbers?

[Estheros]

Hi,first post��.

Kevan and Tywin know who Maggy is, how come Cercei doesn't know her connection to Jeyne?

Also, IIRC Varys mentions to Tyrion (?) about how he keeps secrets such as a King's Hand's secret whoring.Did he mean Tywin?

[Lord Egeman]

Has anyone come across any other references to a magical marriage? GRRM mentions the term in an SSM about marriage.

Probably it is a mention to the marriage of the Night's King and the Other Bride, or the First Men marriages to the CotF. Or maybe the marriage of Durran the Storm King and Elenei, daughter of the Storm gods.

How many ships does Euron command?

As far as we know, Victarion has about hundred ships at his disposal when he goes to Daenerys. Euron may very well have as many ships, but I doubt he used all of them on Shield Islands.