Who is Nissa Nissa Reborn?

[redriver]

Would Nissa Nissa have to be 'reborn' or does AA just need to make an emotional blood sacrifice? I can't remember if NN was "special" in her own right.

AA's wife and whom he loved most in the world.No mention anywhere of her being "reborn".

[Fire Eater]

Mel will sacrifice shireen to save Jon. Jon will be "reborn" from king's blood. He will be so outraged that shireen died for him that he will kill mel. Mel knew she was going to die and therefore sacrificed herself for Jon to be reborn. Therefore I think Mel is Nissa Nissa

I don't think Mel will resurrect Jon, BranRaven will.

I do think, however, that Jon will kill Mel.

Then a string of red tears appeared across the big man's [Qhorin Halfhand] throat, bright as a ruby necklace. the blood gushed out of him

One ruby necklace that comes to mind is Melisandre's.

[The Night's Prince]

At first I thought there had to be parallels and Nissa Nissa had to be one of them, but it doesn't. GRRM has done a great job though of occupying readers with the thought, as he has placed a handful of women around Jon and a handful of men around Dany. In fact i have now changed my stance to the only ones that change or will change will be AA and only AA. No Nissa Nissa or another LB or anything.

[Northern Nomad]

Jon's honor.

[binga]

Nissa means test. The test in that case was a willingness to sacrifice his wife. The test in this case will be Brienne having to kill Jaime and then stabbing Lady Stoneheart and becoming Azor Ahai. Lady Stoneheart has some kind of fire magic inside her right now that is bringing her back to life. That life force will enter Brienne's sword.

[The Night's Prince]

Jon's honor.

He doesn't love that most of all. He was about to forsake it when he decided to march on House Bolton. The only one he loves most is Arya but she is half a world away. The one Dany loves the most is the IT, and that is also half a world away. For Dany it'd be easier to sacrifice the IT than for Jon to sacrifice Arya.

[Ser Greg of House House]

If we need a sacrifice, the only two options are Ghost and Arya. Yes, it's pretty sad, but any other one would be cheap. Mel? Nobody likes her. What kind of sacrifice would it be?

Also I firmly believe GRRM portrays Mel as a fool and a fanatic. His whole thing is that everything is grey, yet he puts a characters that explicitly say you're either good or bad, there's no middle ground. She says so openly to Davos.

When I read that, it seemed like a giant warning: "Hello reader. Martin here. This one is wrong and she will pay for that soon enough. She's a fool!"

[Stannis Lives]

If we need a sacrifice, the only two options are Ghost and Arya. Yes, it's pretty sad, but any other one would be cheap. Mel? Nobody likes her. What kind of sacrifice would it be?

Also I firmly believe GRRM portrays Mel as a fool and a fanatic. His whole thing is that everything is grey, yet he puts a characters that explicitly say you're either good or bad, there's no middle ground. She says so openly to Davos.

When I read that, it seemed like a giant warning: "Hello reader. Martin here. This one is wrong and she will pay for that soon enough. She's a fool!"

shireen

[STANNIS THE GREAT KING]

Its' Shireen. Stannis' Beloved.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The Night's Watch is Lightbringer, the wives the men give up are a collective Nissa Nissa, and the Azor Ahai myth is based on one giant game of telephone that's lasted a few thousand years.

[Stannis Lives]

The Night's Watch is Lightbringer, the wives the men give up are a collective Nissa Nissa, and the Azor Ahai myth is based on one giant game of telephone that's last a few thousand years.

ive always liked this theory and have always found it very compelling and very likely. It's not as exciting though as Jon being AA, which in itself could be argument against him being AA.

Regardless of the true mearning of the prophecy, I do think Mel will come to believe that Jon is AA. She probably thinks stannis dead and she misread her flames. I think she knew what was going to happen and planned for it. Jon will be near death, while he wargs into ghost to explore the north and learn about his past. Then Mel will sacrifice shireen, disease of stone, to use kings blood to wake Jon for his metaphorical rebirth of dragons out of stone. Mel knew Jon would kill her for sacrificing shireen for him and therefore she also sacrificed herself to enable AA to be reborn. Jon will awake and then drive longclaw into Mel's heart and withdraw lightbringer, binding her soul to the sword. That's why I see Mel as nissa nissa. Sacrificing herself for AA to be born.

Patchface will lose it when shireen is killed and will assist the Others in breaching the wall. Maybe by freeing the wights in the frozen cells. Patchfaces, "out of the sea on sea horses" prophecy alluded to this.

Whether or not it happens this way, I like it.

[mushroomshirt]

The only think I can't help but consider reading all of these posts is that we have to interpret who will be NIssa Nissa based on how the situation plays out. I don't think Jon, if he is AA reborn, will kill a loved one just because of a tale, he's too realistic to act on that. Then as for potential loved ones to be sacrificed to temper Lightbringers flames, I view the candidates from best to worst from where Dance left off as being, Val, Melisandre, or UnCat. I can't think Arya since she isn't even on the continent right now.

As for Lightbringer, a part of me can't help but think it might be Oathkeeper. In Jon's dream he dreamt of wielding a red sword and striking down the Other, (and his loved ones). The name Oathkeeper kinda reflects Jon's character, and the coloring of it being red and black, Targaryen colors, along with it being crafted from the ancestral sword of House Stark, it would be nice if a part of it ended up passing to Jon. Funny after thought, Ice would catch Fire if it did act as Lightbringer, and oh the song it would sing.

Wow I never thought of this but Oathkeeper would be great as Lightbringer for all the reasons you described.

[LadyMary]

Where does it say that Azor Ahai's entire story - complete with blood sacrifice of loved one - will be repeated if/when s/he is "reborn"?

[The Night's Prince]

The Night's Watch is Lightbringer, the wives the men give up are a collective Nissa Nissa, and the Azor Ahai myth is based on one giant game of telephone that's lasted a few thousand years.

No. Most of those men are criminals. What "wives" do they give up? Not buying it in the least. You can't tell me the NW is honorable enough to house a bunch of honorable men who had wives and children and gave them up. And the frequent trips to wherever they went to bed whores speaks of honor as well. There's no way you can spin that to make me believe the NW is Lightbringer. None.

Where does it say that Azor Ahai's entire story - complete with blood sacrifice of loved one - will be repeated if/when s/he is "reborn"?

Nowhere. Which makes me believe the people in place that could be sacrifices are Red Herrings and there won't be parallels.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Where does it say that Azor Ahai's entire story - complete with blood sacrifice of loved one - will be repeated if/when s/he is "reborn"?

I agree. I don't think it's part of the prophecy. Salladhor tells the tale as Jon is falling for Ygritte. Sure enough to fulfill his proper role/destiny/what have you Jon makes a choice that virtually ensures Ygritte's death. The tale for foreshadowed Ygritte's death. Jon is not going to temper a new blade in Ghost or Arya.I think Longclaw fits the bill already.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

No. Most of those men are criminals. What "wives" do they give up? Not buying it in the least. You can't tell me the NW is honorable enough to house a bunch of honorable men who had wives and children and gave them up. And the frequent trips to wherever they went to bed whores speaks of honor as well. There's no way you can spin that to make me believe the NW is Lightbringer. None.

The married men who join the Watch give up the wives that they had, and the unmarried ones give up the wives they would have had. It's not that complicated. Many of them are criminals now, but through a good chunk of Westerosi history, the Wall was an honorable calling and plenty of noblemen joined. Do you think all of the shields in the shield hall came from criminals? No.

I'm not "spinning" anything. It's all right there in the vows.

[Stannis Lives]

The married men who join the Watch give up the wives that they had, and the unmarried ones give up the wives they would have had. It's not that complicated. Many of them are criminals now, but through a good chunk of Westerosi history, the Wall was an honorable calling and plenty of noblemen joined. Do you think all of the shields in the shield hall came from criminals? No.

I'm not "spinning" anything. It's all right there in the vows.

agree. It's a good theory and there are numerous threads that some of the others can read to learn more about it. In reference to the AA nonbelievers, I think its a metaphorical prophecy and rebirth. Not a literal one.

[LadyMary]

Nowhere. Which makes me believe the people in place that could be sacrifices are Red Herrings and there won't be parallels.

I agree. I don't think it's part of the prophecy. Salladhor tells the tale as Jon is falling for Ygritte. Sure enough to fulfill his proper role/destiny/what have you Jon makes a choice that virtually ensures Ygritte's death. The tale for foreshadowed Ygritte's death. Jon is not going to temper a new blade in Ghost or Arya.I think Longclaw fits the bill already.

agree. It's a good theory and there are numerous threads that some of the others can read to learn more about it. In reference to the AA nonbelievers, I think its a metaphorical prophecy and rebirth. Not a literal one.

To the extent that the prophesy will come "true", I do think it's a symbolic or metaphorical rebirth, not literal. There are several candidates that fit the bill: Stannis, Daenerys, Rhaegar and Jon and maybe others.

Stannis was not literally reborn, did not literally temper his sword in Selyse's (or Shireen's) beating heart and yet the fanatic Melisandre believes him to be Azor Ahai based on her visions. The sword that Stannis calls Lightbringer is nothing more than a glamor which she knows, but still she believes that R'hollor is showing her that Stannis is the One. Of course she's most likely wrong about that, but apparently no literal rebirth or sacrifice was necessary to prove that Stannis is Azor Ahai in her mind.

The priests of the red temple in Volantis think Daenerys is the One, and at least in her case, there was a miraculous event with her being Unburnt (but not literally reborn) and the Mother of Dragons born of the flames of her beloved's funeral pyre. Still, there is no sword and one or more of her dragons may be Lightbringer - not literally, obviously.

Rhaegar once believed the PTWP - a Targaryen/Westerosi version of the AA prophesy, was about himself. Later he believed it was his son Aegon. Maester Aemon mentions it in passing but dismisses it because Rhaegar died and so did Aegon (as far as anyone in Westeros knew), so Aemon comes to think the PTWP must be Daenerys. But on the other hand, perhaps Rhaegar was right the first time and he was PTWP. If R=L=J and Lyanna (Nissa Nissa) lost her life giving birth to Jon (Lightbringer)...Voila! There's another possibility.

Still the fact that both Stannis and Daenerys have been named and lobbied for by certain factions as AA probably means neither one is. So, I'm thinking Jon is a better metaphorical candidate to defeat the darkness, but I don't think he will need to temper Longclaw in Ghost's beating heart... or anyone else's.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Jon likely doomed Ygritte when he escaped but he declined to loose an arrow at her when he had a shot.