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KingMaekarWasHere

Please Put More About Maekar's Family in the Book

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Now I know that I seem biased, but since Maekar is in my name, and since I know and appreciate him as a character, and his family including the famous Egg, I'd like to see more about him and his family in the World of Ice and Fire. What do you guys out there think? Would you like to know about Maekar's wife, who she was, how she factored in? And what about Baelor Breakspear's wife, Maekar's sister in law? And how about the wives of Maekar's three sons that married, cause Aemon never did and became a maester after all. (the three sons being Aerion Brightflame, Daeron the Drunkard, and Egg) But remember Maekar had two daughters too! Who did they marry, into what houses? And who was the rebel lord that Maekar was defeated, killed by? Maekar's life is so important in understanding Egg and even Aemon, and even Maekar's great-great granddaughter Dany. So I say if you can bring on King Maekar the one and only!

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I am definitely for this, although I think a lot of info will be withheld so as to not spoil future Dunk & Egg stories. I am very interested in all the happenings of the Targaryen/Blackfyre lines since Aegon IV the Unworthy. So much happened from that point on to shape the realm and the current state of affairs in the series.

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It really struck me when I saw that his wife and the way of his passing was not referenced in the wiki: the dude reigned for twelve years and we are "familiar" with some of his relatives (Bloodraven, Maester Aemon).

Moreover, his reign took place aproximately 70-80 years before the asoiaf story (not that long),and yet, no info. But I do believe it is yet to be revealed in the future Dunk & Egg novels (hope at least)

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Info about Maekar's reign will certainly be interesting.

Would you like to know about Maekar's wife, who she was, how she factored in? And what about Baelor Breakspear's wife, Maekar's sister in law?

My pet theory for Baelor's wife is a daugther of Elaena Targaryen (the youngest princess in the Maidenvault). We know that she married thrice and had seven children. And she was freed at Baelor's the Blessed's death (171), so she could had had a daughter of the right age to marry Baelor (born 169) and give birth to Valarr (born 189).

She also had black platinum white hair with a golden streak, which would tie nicely with her potential grandson Valarr's brown hair with a golden streak.

Besides Baelor, some of Elaena's daughters may have married Rhaegal or Maekar too.

And how about the wives of Maekar's three sons that married, cause Aemon never did and became a maester after all. (the three sons being Aerion Brightflame, Daeron the Drunkard, and Egg) But remember Maekar had two daughters too! Who did they marry, into what houses?

We know that Egg married ouside the Targaryen family for love. So perhaps the easiest would be to assume that Daeron the Drunk and Aerion married their two sisters Daella and Rhae.

And who was the rebel lord that Maekar was defeated, killed by?

The most commonly accepted theory is that he died fighting the Lothstons, the lords of Harrenhal that were substituted by the Whents. Ser Illifer the Peniless says in AFFC that House Lothston was wiped during the times of his great grand grandfather, which could fit the year of Maekar's death.

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I suspected once that Baelor was married to another Martell princess, a daughter of Maron and Daenerys. But I'm not sure if that makes sense age-wise.

Elaena had golden hair with a silver streak in it (or the other way around). She did not have black hair. Valarr's golden streak could indicated a close kinship to Elaena, but it could also been a sort of resurgence of the Targaryen features. He looking somewhat more like his paternal grandfather.

Maekar most certainly was married to a Valyrian/Targaryen girl. Either a Velaryon, a daughter of Elaena, or a sister we don't know anything about yet. Despite Daeron all his children seem to have very prominent Targaryen features.

Rhaegel could have also been married to a daughter of Elaena, although it will be quite interesting to find out who she was married to after this Plumm thing. Marrying her to Ossifer Plumm has to be a nasty joke of Aegon the Unworthy. Whoever that man was, he most certainly was far beneath a Targaryen princess. Later on, she married once for passion, and once again on the command of a king. I'm inclined to believe that Daeron let her marry for passion after the Plumm thing, and commanded her to marry again after said husband died. I'm inclined to believe that her marriage for love was finally Alyn Velaryon, but that does not have to be the case. And it would be really great if it turned out that she did serve as Master of Coin on Aerys' council.

Maekar's wife may turn out to be an interesting person. It seems that Maekar did never remarry after her early death, so there have been some love involved there.

Egg and Jaehaerys' brides have to be Valyrian and/or at least fair-haired. Jaehaerys himself, and Aerys and Rhaella have very strong Targaryen features. I suspect a Blackfyre may be either Egg's wife or Jaehaerys'.

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I suspected once that Baelor was married to another Martell princess, a daughter of Maron and Daenerys. But I'm not sure if that makes sense age-wise.

I had also thought of that, but it doesn't work. Daenerys' marriage was brokered of Daeron I, and Valarr was born only six years into Daeron's reign.

Elaena had golden hair with a silver streak in it (or the other way around). She did not have black hair.

Thanks, fixed. :)

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But we can assume that Rhaegel or Maekar were married to a daughter of Daenerys, can we? Rhaegel's twins are still quite young in TMK, so it's possible that he married late. Aerys and Aelinor were probably married to each other by their father, although this marriage may have not been consummated. It would really be interesting to know if Aerys was asexual, gay, or merely abhorred by the thought sleep with his sister...

Maekar's sons seem to be nearly of an age with Baelor's, especially Daeron, so he most likely also was not married to a Martell princess. But Rhaegel could have been married to a cousin.

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But we can assume that Rhaegel or Maekar were married to a daughter of Daenerys, can we?

Not Maekar: Daeron comes to the throne at 184, so that's the earliest possible date for Daenerys and Maron's marriage and the earliest birthdate of a potential daughter of theirs*. Baelor's Valarr was born at 189 and Maekar's Daeron at 190, when this potential daughter would be 5 or 6 years old.

But Rhaegel is perfectly possible. One of Maekar's sons could work too.

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Yeah, both Valarr and Matarys were married, and at least Matarys had children. I believe Valarr's wife died pregnant. My guess is that Daeron started negotiations with Maron right after he ascended the Iron Throne. Assuming that they took not all that long, my guess is that Daenerys married Maron in 185. Daemon would have been fifteen by then, and I guess Daenerys was about the same age as he was, or slightly older. Considering that Daemon must have married early to father seven sons and some daughters, my guess is that Daenerys must have been married off rather early or else this whole Daemon/Dany thing would have made little sense. Surely Daemon would not have wanted to take on Daenerys as second wife.

Daenerys eldest child was a son. He was the one who succeeded Maron as Prince of Dorne, and she taught him what she learned about ruling at the Water Gardens.

Maekar's wife may have died in childbirth - she gave birth to at least six children. But there is also the chance that Maekar's pox scars indicate that he and his wife was once severely ill, and she might have not survived.

Maekar's sons were apparently only married later in life. Daeron left only one daughter, and Aerion only an infant son. It's not unlikely that Egg was the first of Maekar's sons to marry. He had already a family when he ascended the Iron Throne.

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Is it confirmed that Daenerys married Maron early in Daeron's reign? Because Martin said that her marriage was "the last straw for Daemon". It certainly looked that the betrothal took place immediately before the rebellion. Guy doesn't strike me as someone who'd be glad to take the last straw, wait for ten-odd years and then rebel.

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It was not the last straw, it was more that George said that Daeron decided to marry Daenerys to Prince Maron instead of Daemon because 1. this greatly benefited the Realm, and 2. he had had a few clashes with Daemon in the past which motivated him not to get Daemon to close to his family.

If there was anything to the Daemon-and-Daenerys-were-in-love-story, then this has to have happened before Daemon married his own wife, or there was no chance that Daemon could have married Daenerys as his second wife. All it could have been then is some sort of romance with no chance of marriage. But that's not how the story is told. And the mother of Daemon's children is still alive and well in TMK.

Since Aegon and Aemon were twelve on the Redgrass Field in 196 AC, they were born in 184 AC. Which means that Daemon must have married in the same year as Daeron ascended to the Iron Throne. And Daenerys would have been married to Maron in the very same year.

Daeron II was born during the reign of Aegon III. Daenerys would have been born early on during the reign of the Unlikely, or shortly before Baelor's death. Considering that, it would be very unlikely that she would not be married in her teens. She was a royal princess, after all. To have been married to Prince Maron later in Daeron's reign she would have to be born late during her father's life, possibly during a time when Queen Naerys was no longer able to bear children. This is not possible.

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"And also, he prefers to give his sister to the prince of Dorne over a bastard bother with whom he'd already had a few clashes and whom too many people were looking one as a legitimate claimant to the throne or rightful king. That was the straw that broke the camel's back, and helps lead to Daemon becoming the first Blackfyre Pretender."

http://www.westeros....w_in_Barcelona/

Martin does say it was the last straw. And given how early Targaryens married, Queen Naerys might have been fertile well late into her husband's reign. Rhaella did give birth to Daenerys twenty four years after Rhaegar's birth when she herself might not have been 40 yet, so why not Naerys? And if Daemon wanted to marry Daenerys when they were both in their teens, it makes sense for Daeron to keep postponing it for a few years and then give her to the Martell prince. It would be unusual but not so much - after all, Elia Martell married Rhaegar when she was 19 or 20.

It doesn't make sense for Daeron to have had clashes with a 14 year old boy. As remarkable as Daeron was, he was not THIS remarkable. He was tired of being a bastard and so on - Martin says it in the link. Since he was Aegon's favourite and his supposed dream of an heir, he would have not been this resentful in the very year of Daeron's ascension. There wasn't enough time.

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The quote is 'helps lead to Daemon becoming the first Blackfyre Pretender'. This does not indicate to me that this happened immediately before the Rebellion. It's seems more as if this was the thing that destroyed Daeron's and Daemon's personal relationship.

Else we have to believe that Daemon-Daenerys-marriage-thing was supposed to make Daenerys' Daemon's second wife. He has to have been married as early as 184 AC.

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Yes but the wording indicate that it happened on top of a myriad other things purportedly done by Daeron who just didn't have time to do them if the marriage took place so early in his reign. And we're once again back to the point where Daemon just sat and nursed his grievances. Well, Maekar did something of the kind later but as far as we know, he didn't take arms against Aerys and Bloodraven twelve years later.

Targaryen kings did practice poligamy. If Daenerys was young and in love, I can see her deciding that she could be Daemon's second wife. Or he might have intended to set his first wife aside. Whoever she was, Daenerys was certainly better born.

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That we don't know yet. There are theories that she might be one of Princess Elaena's daughters. She had seven children. Polygamy was practiced by the Targaryen kings, but I don't see a legitimized bastard pulling this off with the sister of the king. If Daemon was not yet married there was a chance. We don't know all that much about Daeron and Daemon, but it seems as if Daeron actually took many of his half-brothers in and let them live at court. Princess Daena was apparently already dead at this time, so Daemon could have been easily been banished from court. And the fact that Daemon and Daenerys get to know each other close enough to fall in love suggests to me that they grew up together/interacted closely together for a longer period of time.

Since Daemon was not yet a man grown it's quite likely that his marriage was brokered by King Daeron. And I doubt that he would have been allowed to set his wife aside...

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Daemon's twins were born in 184 - the year his father died. His marriage was most likely brokered by Aegon the Unworthy who was either alive or dying at the time. After all, what use does Daeron have of immediately brokering a good match for Daemon, with a wife who was not Daenerys but probably a Targaryen anyway? For the old Aegon, though, it must have been a good laugh - another way of creating havoc and problems for Daeron. Why not give him Daenerys? It probably didn't occur to him that it was a possibility and frankly, at 13 Daemon and Daenerys were quite unlikely to be so much in love. He, at least, was around this age when he married. She might have been even younger since Baelor was born in 171 and GRRM says she was younger than him.

And while poligamy with Daenerys concerned would not wash with Daeron, Daemon and Daenerys might have tried and been refused,

Again, the manly man would not have sat back and grumbled for 12 years.

One or more of Daeron's sons could have been married to Martell princesses, though. Not necessarily a daughter of Daenerys. It would not have made such a noise because the noise had already been created by their father's marriage and since we don't hear either of them protesting, it could have passed without the characters we are familiar with mentioning it.

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We have to see. The whole thing does not make much sense to me anymore...

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Daemon's motivations to claim the throne are multiple, and George himself highlights one or another in various interviews.

George said that when Aegon gave the sword to Daemon at 182 that " first started widespread talk that perhaps he should be king." During the reign of the reign of Aegon IV also started the rumours about Daeron being the son of the Dragonknight, which would put Daemon first in the line of succession. Then there's the Daenerys issue, which may have been "the final straw" in antagonizing Daeron and Daemon. In the final years, it is stressed that Fireball convinced him after being denied a place in the Kingsguard, and Bittersteel also played a part.

Daemon's twins were born in 184 - the year his father died. His marriage was most likely brokered by Aegon the Unworthy who was either alive or dying at the time. After all, what use does Daeron have of immediately brokering a good match for Daemon, with a wife who was not Daenerys but probably a Targaryen anyway?

We know that Daemon and Daenerys loved each other, that Aegon IV favored Daemon over Daeron, and that he didn't care much about the stability of the realm after his death. Why would he broker Daemon's marriage to another wife? And why would Daemon accept?

If that had been the case the supporters of the black dragon could not complain that Daeron took Daenerys away from Daeron, as an earlier marriage would prevent the union anyway.

The following scenario seems more credible to me:

  • Aegon intended to allow Daemon and Daenerys to marry. He liked Daemon, they loved each other, and it was a fun thing to do to piss his other son. There was no hurry for the couple to get married though. At 184 they were just 14.
  • Aegon IV unexpectedly dies (he would be in his late forties)
  • Once his father dies (Jannuary), Daeron immediately sends off Daenerys to Dorne. He doesn't lose time with the negotiations because the Martells are his in-laws, and because he had already planned this for years (and probably had suggested this to Aegon IV, who had refused). He also wants to do this immediately because he fears that if Daenerys stays in KL, she and Daemon may consumate their love and prevent the marriage.
  • Many people is already saying that Daemon should have been king instead of Daeron. Some of those families offer a bride to him, and he marries her (obviously without the king's consent).
  • Nine month later the twins Aegon and Aemon are born. It's still 184.

The timeline is a little bit streched, but it works for me. I think you could also construct a case when Daemon married a first time, had seven sons and at least two daughters between 182 and 194, and then his wife died and he attempted to marry Daenerys. But it would be weird for Daenerys to remain single until that late.

at 13 Daemon and Daenerys were quite unlikely to be so much in love. He, at least, was around this age when he married.

Daemon was 14, and Daenerys may have been 15 if she was born the same year as the Breakspear. Ask anyone of those ages if they can or can't be in love.

But I imagine that this love was somehow propelled by Daeron's decision to send her to Dorne. Daenerys clearly didn't want to get married to Maron, and he may asked Daemon for help. And the ideal knight Daemon would rush to defend the "maiden in distress".

Again, the manly man would not have sat back and grumbled for 12 years.

He was 14, and he couldn't revolt by himself. It takes a lot of time to seek allies, obtain contacts, get yourself known... Choosing the right time is essential here.

Also, while the Battle of the Redgrass Field took place in 192, the rebellion may have started one or two years before. At least there was time for Butterwell to do "a dismal job" before geting fired and substituted for Lord Hayford.

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We know that Egg married ouside the Targaryen family for love. So perhaps the easiest would be to assume that Daeron the Drunk and Aerion married their two sisters Daella and Rhae.

There may still be additional, as yet unknown, sisters. Or has it been confirmed that Egg only has two? The only reference to them that I can recall is Egg naming these two, and mentioning something about his "sisters" trying to use a (?) love potion on him.

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The Hairy Bear's chronology of events is more or less the same thing I imagine. One might add that there was clearly tension between Dorne and the Iron Throne during the Unworthy's reign since it's stated that the wooden dragons he had built were supposed to help conquer Dorne.

Daeron and Myriah most likely spent most of their time at Summerhall, avoiding the capital and Aegon as much as possible.

As to Daenerys and Daemon: If I remember the talk correctly (Ser Eustace) then it was said that she was in love with him, not the other way around. Daemon may have pissed that she was denied to him, but this does not necessarily mean that he was in love with her. Being married to Daeron's sister would have put him in an ideal position to try to claim the throne should Daeron unexpectedly die or something like that. And it would have help him to wash the stain of bastardy away which most likely still haunted him at this time. He was only legitimized upon his father's death. Which is why I don't believe that the Unworthy really intended to marry Daemon to Daenerys. Nothing like that has ever been mentioned. Daemon was not slighted by Daeron the same way Fireball was slighted (i.e. Aegon promising one thing, and Daeron doing another later on).

But I agree that Daeron and Myriah may have negotiated the joining of the Dorne well in advance. Thus the marriage between Daenerys and Maron was the only thing left to do after Daeron ascended the Iron Throne. And it that sense I doubt that this had anything to do with separating Daenerys from Daemon, but it was rather the price Daenerys had to pay for the good of the Realm and all the people in it. Arranged marriages happen all the time, and I'm quite sure most Targaryens were not actually in love with the siblings they were forced to marry.

If Daemon was indeed married to a daughter of Princess Elaena, then this may have been done to placate Daemon. He did not get Daenerys, but another Targaryen princess. But this marriage would have been brokered by Daemon's legal guardian at this time - King Daeron II. He was not yet a man grown, after all.

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