Are Dragons really necessary in the fight against the Others?

[Florina Laufeyson]

I don't believe so, no. If — IF — the dragons are used productively in that fight, it'll probably be against wights. The Others were defeated the first time without the aid of dragons, unless that's something that was left out of that whole Battle for the Dawn story. Fire doesn't seem to affect Others the way it does wights. Not to mention that the idea of any faction swooping in on dragonback to heroically save the day just seems too trite and convenient. I also don't really subscribe to the idea of dragons as a "good" thing. On the contrary, everything suggests that they're nothing but tools of oppression that are used to reinforce subjugation. I don't think it's going to be "Others bad, dragons good."

And something else to consider, which is conspicuously absent in a lot of "dragons are going to defeat the Others" arguments: If dragons can hurt Others, the reverse is probably true, too.

Arr. The wights are the problem that the Dragons can easily be a solution to. Dragonfire may not even melt an Other for all we know. And the Others could probably hurt dragons with their weapons.

I laughed at this mental image. I wonder if they'd get a dental plan.

DENTAL PLAN

Rhaegal needs braces.

DENTAL PLAN

Rhaegal needs brace.

[The Great Walrus]

well the quote has caused enough confusion i've since edited it to clarify

I think i'll go ahead and try to always use a different font while being sarcastic/snarky.

[Djinn]

Yes. How else is Bran going to fly all the way up to the Great others lair, drop Lightbringer on it, to see it destroyed?

[TheMysteriousOne]

I think i'll go ahead and try to always use a different font while being sarcastic/snarky.

Use the sarcasm font.

Her detriment and a ton of other people's. But that is for another day. B)

LOL, yeah.

[shk12344]

Daenerys' dream in ASOS.

I'm assuming you are refering to this quote,

“That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper’s rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and the melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent.”

My interpretation of it is this. Since I'm a firm believer that Dany and Jon will be fighting against each other and Jon is AA who will defeat the Others. the ice armors refers to Jon's soldiers dressed the Others military gear.

But as Iron Jawed Angel stated the dream like all dreams in the book could have to several diffferent interepretation.

[Mladen]

snip

I don't see dragons as good, and Others as bad. In my book, they are two opposites that humanity should be fighing against. Neither fire nor ice are pro-life. As we have seen, fire bringing life takes something from you. It consumes. Phylosophically, I think that GRRM will create two fronts on which humanity will fight. One agaist Others, second against dragons... I don't see dragons being saviors.

I don't believe so, no. If — IF — the dragons are used productively in that fight, it'll probably be against wights. The Others were defeated the first time without the aid of dragons, unless that's something that was left out of that whole Battle for the Dawn story. Fire doesn't seem to affect Others the way it does wights. Not to mention that the idea of any faction swooping in on dragonback to heroically save the day just seems too trite and convenient. I also don't really subscribe to the idea of dragons as a "good" thing. On the contrary, everything suggests that they're nothing but tools of oppression that are used to reinforce subjugation. I don't think it's going to be "Others bad, dragons good."

And something else to consider, which is conspicuously absent in a lot of "dragons are going to defeat the Others" arguments: If dragons can hurt Others, the reverse is probably true, too.

Just to say I agree and to say, welcome back. We missed you...

[TheMysteriousOne]

I'm assuming you are refering to this quote,

“That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper’s rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and the melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent.”

My interpretation of it is this. Since I'm a firm believer that Dany and Jon will be fighting against each other and Jon is AA who will defeat the Others. the ice armors refers to Jon's soldiers dressed the Others military gear.

But as Iron Jawed Angel stated the dream like all dreams in the book could have to several diffferent interepretation.

Personally, I think that Dany and Jon can fight the Others without being on the same side. I've always interpreted it as Dany fighting the Others, probably led by Stannis, maybe as the NK reborn.

[Illusion]

I think the dragons are vital against the Others. The wildness and ferocity of the First Men combined in alliance with the magic of TCotF is long lost, dragonglass is rare and the North is in tatters. The Others are supernatural, as are Dragons. There is no point for GRRM 'reviving' either unless they are to clash in battle. Westeros will fall unless the Dragons enter the fray.

[C0bR]

I am still of a firm belief that dragons are going to be just another aspect to the southern game of politics, even used by different parties against each other.

They might encounter the Others once they come swooping down through the land and even be somehow useful against the wights, but I don't believe they are necessary to defeat them.

[The Idiots Lantern]

I don't see dragons as good, and Others as bad. In my book, they are two opposites that humanity should be fighing against. Neither fire nor ice are pro-life. As we have seen, fire bringing life takes something from you. It consumes.

One is more "pro-life" then the other. Ice can be used to keep food fresh and drinks cold...but fire is humanity's original technology. When we learned to control fire, we suddenly had heat, protection from hostile animals, cooked food.... heck even today, sparks ignite your stove, combustion powers the car you drive, all of that started as fire.

Too much fire can kill you, but human life without ANY is impossible. Especially on dark, icy-cold Nights.

Phylosophically, I think that GRRM will create two fronts on which humanity will fight. One agaist Others, second against dragons... I don't see dragons being saviors.

I'm against anything that removes the Others from their role as the primary antagonists in the story. I don't want GRRM to pull a "Scouring of the Shire" were the Big Bad Enemy we've been working for the whole series to defeat is, finally, defeated...only for another, even more complex problem to be abruptly introduced AND resolved in the last chapter of the whole epic. It wasn't cool when JRR Tolkein did it and it's STILL not cool.

I'm not calling dragons saviors. Dragons are animals; forces of nature who are not good or bad. It's the humans who use the dragons effectively who may be the saviors. Or destroyers. Either way.

[Consigliere]

I think the dragons are vital against the Others. The wildness and ferocity of the First Men combined in alliance with the magic of TCotF is long lost, dragonglass is rare and the North is in tatters. The Others are supernatural, as are Dragons. There is no point for GRRM 'reviving' either unless they are to clash in battle. Westeros will fall unless the Dragons enter the fray.

If dragons enter the fray Westeros will fall to fire and if not Westeros will fall to ice. Time to move I think.

[yolkboy]

dragonglass is rare

Stannis has had Rolland Storm mining dragonglass since Storm of Swords, I don't think it will be too scarce, if the cache can be collected and reach the Wall. Also, it's available to trade from Asshai.

[Mladen]

I am still of a firm belief that dragons are going to be just another aspect to the southern game of politics, even used by different parties against each other.

Well, we know they oarticipated in Dance of dragons, but not War for Dawn...

One is more "pro-life" then the other. Ice can be used to keep food fresh and drinks cold...but fire is humanity's original technology. When we learned to control fire, we suddenly had heat, protection from cold and hostile animals, cooked food.... heck even today, sparks ignite your stove, combustion powers the car you drive, all of that started as fire.

Too much fire can kill you, but human life without ANY is impossible. Especially on dark, icy-cold Nights.

Ice perserves, fire consumes... Now, we are talking semantics. How much ice or fire can save your life. I mean, earth and water is connected with the life, better than fire. I don't see how weapons of mass destruction such as dragons can be ever seen as pro-life.

I'm against anything that removes the Others from their role as the primary antagonists in the story. I don't want GRRM to pull a "Scouring of the Shire" were the Big Bad Enemy we've been working for the whole series to defeat is, finally, defeated...only for another, even more complex problem to be abruptly introduced AND resolved in the last chapter of the whole epic. It wasn't cool when JRR Tolkein did it and it's STILL not cool.

I'm not calling dragons saviors. Dragons are animals; forces of nature who are not good or bad. It's the humans who use the dragons effectively who may be the saviors. Or destroyers. Either way.

No, in my equasion both Others and dragons are enemies. The balance can not exist while poles are so strong. I actually see dragons fighting political war on the South, killing each other, while North deals with Others. And, as Apple Martini once stated about dragons, between me being eater and eaten, I choose eater... Dragons are truly beasts...

[l3ol3o]

I think they will be. We know dragonglass and dragonsteel can kill Others.

Others also seem to be "ice made flesh" where dragons are "fire made flesh".

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Rhaegal needs braces.

DENTAL PLAN

Rhaegal needs brace.

That is exactly what I thought of when I typed that.

[StannisBamfatheon]

That is exactly what I thought of when I typed that.

Well to be honest I hadn't thought about the dental plan or anything all I really wanted was to see Viseryion in a hard hat.

[Consigliere]

I think that once we know who the other 2 dragonriders are the charaters roles will become clearer. I believe that the 3 riders will use the dragons to further their own cause. Dany could use Drogon to wage her war for the IT in the south, Jon (if he is to be one of the heads of the dragon) could use the dragon, Viserion perhaps, to fight the war against the Others. No idea who the 3rd head will be. If Jon turns out to be AAR, as is popular belief, then that makes Danys appearance at the wall redundant. Even if Jon is not one of the heads he can still lead the fight against the others using the obsidian that Stannis is having mined at Dragonstone.

[Alhazred]

I think that once we know who the other 2 dragonriders are the charaters roles will become clearer. I believe that the 3 riders will use the dragons to further their own cause. Dany could use Drogon to wage her war for the IT in the south, Jon (if he is to be one of the heads of the dragon) could use the dragon, Viserion perhaps, to fight the war against the Others. No idea who the 3rd head will be. If Jon turns out to be AAR, as is popular belief, then that makes Danys appearance at the wall redundant. Even if Jon is not one of the heads he can still lead the fight against the others using the obsidian that Stannis is having mined at Dragonstone.

All 3 of Dany's dragons will be a force for evil.

But there may be other dragons out there .

[TheMysteriousOne]

If Jon turns out to be AAR, as is popular belief, then that makes Danys appearance at the wall redundant.

Why?

[Consigliere]

All 3 of Dany's dragons will be a force for evil.

But there may be other dragons out there .

I hope not. I know there are theories of an ice dragon at Winterfell or the Wall but I think that 3 dragons is enough.