Orgin of House Stark in theory.

[RenlyIsNotRight]

I firmly bielieve that the Targs will not have the time in the spotlight for saving in Westeros.

I agree with you 100% brah, but seriously, what good has House Targaryen ever done for Westeros? Stopped the warring between the kingdoms by conquering them all I guess? Either way, the Field of Fire still happened because of that, and Harren the Black and all his men being roasted alive in Harrenhal (not that Harren wasn't a bit of a tyrant himself, but its not like everyone following him deserved to die). Dany will be no exception I'm sure - she's more likely to cause harm to Westeros than help it.

[Ser Greg of House House]

I agree with you 100% brah, but seriously, what good has House Targaryen ever done for Westeros? Stopped the warring between the kingdoms by conquering them all I guess? Either way, the Field of Fire still happened because of that, and Harren the Black and all his men being roasted alive in Harrenhal (not that Harren wasn't a bit of a tyrant himself, but its not like everyone following him deserved to die). Dany will be no exception I'm sure - she's more likely to cause harm to Westeros than help it.

Please, don't recruit Black Hawk to the cause of Targ haters. He would do us all a great disservice.

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

Weren't surnames uncommon in all of Europe until the middle ages?

[UVA]

Please, don't recruit Black Hawk to the cause of Targ haters. He would do us all a great disservice.

Really? Now you're just being obnoxious. Be that as it may, there are so many already within the anti-Targ ranks that are incompetent why add to the bench?

[A Crow Come Over]

Think we can get this added to the Compendium?

[Frozentree]

I agree with you 100% brah, but seriously, what good has House Targaryen ever done for Westeros? Stopped the warring between the kingdoms by conquering them all I guess? Either way, the Field of Fire still happened because of that, and Harren the Black and all his men being roasted alive in Harrenhal (not that Harren wasn't a bit of a tyrant himself, but its not like everyone following him deserved to die). Dany will be no exception I'm sure - she's more likely to cause harm to Westeros than help it.

Yes. What's the problem? Yes, lot of people died during the conquest, but even that combined with all civil and non-civil wars to come is not even comparable to how many would die during the wars that would continue to happen had they not united Westeros under one banner. Aegon avoided bloodshed where he could - who bent the knee got unharmed, even got to keep all his holding. Harren was not a "bit of tyrant", he was as cruel as the worst of the mad Targaryens in his prime multiplied tenfold. Yes, innocents died in Harrenhal, that's how war works, they'd die during traditional siege as well, and as I said, more would die over time if the kings kept warring each other.

[Morienthar]

Yes. What's the problem?

Subjugation is the problem and forced subjugation is even worse.

No one gives a rats arse about the greater good,You don't want a foreigner ruling you,Which is one of the reasons why we have about 200 countries instead of 7 continents.

An american won't agree for a Canadian president or mexican president nor will Chinese agree to a Indian president ruling over them.

Would the wars have killed many sure,But they were their wars and this was an invasion by a foreigner with WMD's.

[Frozentree]

Subjugation is the problem and forced subjugation is even worse.

No one gives a rats arse about the greater good,You don't want a foreigner ruling you,Which is one of the reasons why we have about 200 countries instead of 7 continents.

An american won't agree for a Canadian president or mexican president nor will Chinese agree to a Indian president ruling over them.

Would the wars have killed many sure,But they were their wars and this was an invasion by a foreigner with WMD's.

Refusing to be ruled by foreigner is xenophobic to say at least. Maybe the people were reluctant at first but they eventually accepted "Westerosi" as their cultural identity and nobody wants king of the rock back on throne. They learned that the foreigner's rule can be prosperous and the later monarch were mostly beloved, even Jaeherys, who even though is 4th monarch ruled very soon after the conquest. Teaching people not to be xenophobes is a big positive, even though they came kicking and screaming to that realization, it eventually paid off and everyone is happy now... or was, until the war started.

[Morienthar]

Refusing to be ruled by foreigner is xenophobic to say at least. Maybe the people were reluctant at first but they eventually accepted "Westerosi" as their cultural identity and nobody wants king of the rock back on throne. They learned that the foreigner's rule can be prosperous and the later monarch were mostly beloved, even Jaeherys, who even though is 4th monarch ruled very soon after the conquest. Teaching people not to be xenophobes is a big positive, even though they came kicking and screaming to that realization, it eventually paid off and everyone is happy now... or was, until the war started.

Less Xenophobic and a bit more of a natural response,They don't understand the people they are ruling and they don't try to assimilate themselves into the culture.Which is an incredibly foolish thing to do.

Jaehaerys and the next few were pretty decent rulers mostly because they integrated themselves into the culture of Westeros. Which is why the Rebellion came so late in the Targ rule otherwise there would have been a few more Rebellions.

[Frozentree]

Less Xenophobic and a bit more of a natural response,They don't understand the people they are ruling and they don't try to assimilate themselves into the culture.Which is an incredibly foolish thing to do.

Jaehaerys and the next few were pretty decent rulers mostly because they integrated themselves into the culture of Westeros. Which is why the Rebellion came so late in the Targ rule otherwise there would have been a few more Rebellions.

Aegon did try to assimilate. We know little about him, but from what we know, the only non-westerosi thing he did was marrying his sisters. Other than that, he did try to fit it, by converting to the Seven, for example. And I think he did understand the people quite well, while Dragonstone is not mainland, it is still part of Westeros and I think its culture was much more similar to the westerosi one than to the Valyrian one. When people made it clear they won't accept him, he simply left them alone (Dorne). Aegon was not a violent subduer. He was a pragmatic conqueror who did his best to be accepted and many lords flocked to him without fight (yes, mostly out of fear, but Harren's subject, for one, welcomed him with honest joy)

ETA: xenophibic and natural response do not exclude each other :cool4:

[Morienthar]

Aegon did try to assimilate. We know little about him, but from what we know, the only non-westerosi thing he did was marrying his sisters. Other than that, he did try to fit it, by converting to the Seven, for example. And I think he did understand the people quite well, while Dragonstone is not mainland, it is still part of Westeros and I think its culture was much more similar to the westerosi one than to the Valyrian one. When people made it clear they won't accept him, he simply left them alone (Dorne). Aegon was not a violent subduer. He was a pragmatic conqueror who did his best to be accepted and many lords flocked to him without fight (yes, mostly out of fear, but Harren's subject, for one, welcomed him with honest joy)

ETA: xenophibic and natural response do not exclude each other :cool4:

That one non Westrosi thing led to a 60 year Faith rebellion.Which went on through his sons and most of Jaehaery's rule.

If they don't then everyone on the planet is Xenophobic.

[Frozentree]

That one non Westrosi thing led to a 60 year Faith rebellion.Which went on through his sons and most of Jaehaery's rule.

If they don't then everyone on the planet is Xenophobic.

True, but that one is not a cultural distinction, it is specifically a Targaryen thing. At least I haven't heard about Velaryons incesting (though I did hear about Lannisters, who are pureborn Westerosi).

eta: also, note that it was the Faith rebelling, not commonfolks. A religious group not content with a sinning king, not people not wanting Targs on the throne

Why so? Seriously, I am lost, just because it is not unnatural everyone has to act like that?

[Morienthar]

True, but that one is not a cultural distinction, it is specifically a Targaryen thing. At least I haven't heard about Velaryons incesting (though I did hear about Lannisters, who are pureborn Westerosi).

Why so? Seriously, I am lost, just because it is not unnatural everyone has to act like that?

Well The Lannister thing is a single generation not everyone.

Well I feel that there needs to be a distinction,opposing forced foreign rule should be considered defence not Xenophobia.

Xenophobia,is as all phobias are Irrational,A fear of forced foreign rule isn't irrational.

[Frozentree]

Well I feel that there needs to be a distinction,opposing forced foreign rule should be considered defence not Xenophobia.

Xenophobia,is as all phobias are Irrational,A fear of forced foreign rule isn't irrational.

How is a Targ rule more forced than a Lannister, Stark, Gardener, etc. one? Were those kings elected? Ironborn elected their kings in the kingsmoots, yes, those ones did lose some freedom, but for the rest it is quite irrational.

[Morienthar]

How is a Targ rule more forced than a Lannister, Stark, Gardener, etc. one? Were those kings elected? Ironborn elected their kings in the kingsmoots, yes, those ones did lose some freedom, but for the rest it is quite irrational.

Yes they are all forced.

It has more to do with cultural identification,people of the north identify with the Starks more than they do with the Targs and would probably prefer a Stark to rule them than a Targ.

The Westerlands identify with the Lannisters and the Reach with the Gardener so much so that they still fight over who has more familial connections to them.

[WildBlood]

How do you know Bran the Builder wasn't the Last Hero?

I have been saying this all along! :cheers:

[Martini Sigil]

The History of House Stark Explained by CBG19:

#1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hVrlvRXGxg

#2- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7yeYWax7EE

[WildBlood]

Didn't the Targs rule for 300 mostly peaceful years or am I missing something?

With 7 separate kingdoms they would have systematically annihilated each other.

[Morienthar]

Didn't the Targs rule for 300 mostly peaceful years or am I missing something?

With 7 separate kingdoms they would have systematically annihilated each other.

Really do 8000 years count for nothing then.

There were wars yes,But I don't see why 300 years with nearly 9 wars and 2 rebellions is better than 8000 years with pocket wars every few decades,It's essentially the same thing.

[WildBlood]

Really do 8000 years count for nothing then.

There were wars yes,But I don't see why 300 years with nearly 9 wars and 2 rebellions is better than 8000 years with pocket wars every few decades,It's essentially the same thing.

8000 years of the kingdoms killing each other? Sure they count in the favor of the Targs.