ConCarolinas May 30 - June 1 2014: Charlotte NC GRRM Guest of honor

[Lady Baela Targaryen]

Some stuff from reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/26zgie/no_spoilers_any_reports_on_the_reading_grrm_did/)

"Stories of how Lann the Clever tricked the Casterlys to get Casterly Rock. They range from he slipped into a crack of the castle covered in butter and tormented the family to he simply got a daughter of Lord Casterly pregnant and married her thus his family inherited Casterly Rock (Lord Casterly had no sons). There is not enough evidence to know what truly happened (according to the maesters)

Lots of Kings of the Rock named Lorren (sp). Including a cross dressing king. After him the name fell out of favor.

Tytos Lannister had two twin older brothers Tion and I dont remember the other. Elleyn Reyne was betrothed to the unnamed twin but he died in battle. She persuaded their father, the current Lord of the Rock (Gerald I think) to let her marry Tion. He relented. Since Gerald was widowed, Ellyn became Lady of Casterly Rock in all but name. Tion died and Ellyn remarried a Tarbeck. Tytos married a Marbrand named Jane. Gerald died after Jane had Tywin and Tytos became Lord of the Rock

Alot about Tytos being friendly and being taken advantage of by his vassels especially the Reynes and Tarbecks. Specifics about how he exterminated the Tarbecks and Reynes. The Reynes went into the mines under their castle. They would'nt come out so Tywin closed off all the references to the mine and diverted a river to fill up the mines and drowning everyone in it.

Ser Duncan the Tall slayed Damon Blackfyre the III in battle. Im guessing thats an previously unnamed son of the Damon Blackfyre the II"

[Maia]

The app seems to suggest that there were plenty of people against Egg becoming King.

Well, the guys we know, love and respect, such as Aemon and Bloodraven had high expectations for him, apparently. Even to the extent that they removed themselves to the Wall in order to clear his playing field.

I have to say that I find it a pity that from what we have heard about GRRM's next Dunk and Egg story ideas, it seems like their incognito knight errantry continues. Now, don't misunderstand me, I am still very interested in the "She-wolves" story. But I'd _really_ love to see stories set at court at the height of Bloodraven's power, then fall of Bloodraven and Maekar's ascension (that was bound to be dramatic), the Great Council (ditto), Egg as a king and, finally, Summerhall. Oh, well...

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

All I can say is damn is Tywin hard. And how terrible for Tyrion that his father was so hardened by his Grandfather's weakness.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Some stuff from reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/26zgie/no_spoilers_any_reports_on_the_reading_grrm_did/)

"Stories of how Lann the Clever tricked the Casterlys to get Casterly Rock. They range from he slipped into a crack of the castle covered in butter and tormented the family to he simply got a daughter of Lord Casterly pregnant and married her thus his family inherited Casterly Rock (Lord Casterly had no sons). There is not enough evidence to know what truly happened (according to the maesters)

Lots of Kings of the Rock named Lorren (sp). Including a cross dressing king. After him the name fell out of favor.

Tytos Lannister had two twin older brothers Tion and I dont remember the other. Elleyn Reyne was betrothed to the unnamed twin but he died in battle. She persuaded their father, the current Lord of the Rock (Gerald I think) to let her marry Tion. He relented. Since Gerald was widowed, Ellyn became Lady of Casterly Rock in all but name. Tion died and Ellyn remarried a Tarbeck. Tytos married a Marbrand named Jane. Gerald died after Jane had Tywin and Tytos became Lord of the Rock

Alot about Tytos being friendly and being taken advantage of by his vassels especially the Reynes and Tarbecks. Specifics about how he exterminated the Tarbecks and Reynes. The Reynes went into the mines under their castle. They would'nt come out so Tywin closed off all the references to the mine and diverted a river to fill up the mines and drowning everyone in it.

Ser Duncan the Tall slayed Damon Blackfyre the III in battle. Im guessing thats an previously unnamed son of the Damon Blackfyre the II"

Ok, so if I'm reading this right, these are the Lannisters George read about:

Tytos, and his brothers, a set of twins apparently, named Tion and Unknown.

Gerold (I supose the Gerald should be read as Gerold, right?) is suggested to have been the father of Tytos, Tion and #3 here? As he was Lord of Casterly Rock.

Gerold then died after Tywin's birth (so Gerold was either about 60 years old or older, but I'm guessing 60 would be a good guess).

Daemon III doesn't necessarily have to have been a son of Daemon II. Haegon, or any other of Daemon I's sons could have named his kid Daemon. But yay Duncan! :D

Totally liking the "buttered" part, and the Lorren the cross-dresser part.

[Maia]

All I can say is damn is Tywin hard. And how terrible for Tyrion that his father was so hardened by his Grandfather's weakness.

Dunno, I expected something more horrible, like mass executions after they had surrendered or were taken prisoner. But from this snippet it looks like they were fighting to the last drop of blood and diverting a river seems like a legitimate military maneuver. Pretty clever, too. So, hard, yes, but not like the Sack of KL or even Duskendale. Elleyn Reyne-Lannister-Tarbeck, a femme fatale indeed.

Anything about the father of Joanna and Stafford and reasons for her betrothal to Tywin?

[King Tyrion I]

All I can say is damn is Tywin hard. And how terrible for Tyrion that his father was so hardened by his Grandfather's weakness.

Yepp. I agree to this.

Still. Tywin remains an interesting character. Like all the others of course.

[Lord Varys]

The Bloodraven thing is really is tricky. My guess is that he was either not imprisoned throughout the whole reign of Maekar, or Maekar's Hand let him out after the king died in battle. The question who was in power at KL after both Daeron the Drunk and Aerion died is also interesting. Aerion died a few months before his father, and he would have been Prince of Dragonstone at this point - perhaps even Maekar's Hand (that would have been a disaster, I guess). But if Egg had been Hand upon his father's death, Bloodraven would surely not have presided over the Small Council, but Prince Aegon. And in such a scenario the Targaryens could also have smoothly crowned Aerion's infant son with Egg or Aemon as Prince Regent.

Any information on Maekar's death would also very much appreciated.

Daemon III Blackfyre most likely was a third generation Blackfyre, a son of Haegon or one of the younger sons. My money would be on the younger sons. It's not very likely that Daemon I named two of his sons Daemon.

I'm really pleased with that thing about Ellyn Reyne Lannister Tarbeck. Thus Tytos' mother was not a Reyne - as I assumed - but the Lannisters were really closely related to both the Reynes and Tarbecks, despite the fact that there were no children. I can easily understand/see why Tytos was reluctant to hit his former sister-in-law with all his power. And it really explains why Lady Tarbeck was very pissed. She was twice the de facto Lady of Casterly Rock, and then she could not pull off a Margaery the third time...

And it really seems to be the case that Gerold Lannister from TSS was indeed the father of Tytos and his elder twin brothers.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Which should then either mean that Tybolt had no children, of that his children died young.

[Maia]

And it really seems to be the case that Gerold Lannister from TSS was indeed the father of Tytos and his elder twin brothers.

There had to be a fourth brother too - father of Stafford and Joanna.

[King Tyrion I]

There had to be a fourth brother too - father of Stafford and Joanna.

Indeed.

[Lord Varys]

Would not be surprised if Tybolt, his sons (if he had any), and at least one of Tytos' twin brothers died in that fourth Blackfyre rebellion. The Lannisters/Westerlands would have to be involved in that one, or else it would not have been covered in great detail, I think, in the history of the Westerlands.

Maia,

yeah, I think that, too. For all we know Stafford and Joanna were Tywin's first cousins. And I'd also not be surprised if Gerold and his father Damon had younger brothers, too. They would be the ancestors of Ser Damion and Lady Margot Lannister Peake.

Would it make sense to assume that Maekar named Bloodraven Hand after both Daeron and Aerion had died? That could explain him presiding over the Great Council. Would be stretch, but certainly not impossible... Especially if Maekar was not really happy with the type of man Egg grew into.

The Lords opposing Egg's rise to the throne would be most likely lords who considered him to be too invested in the affairs of the smallfolk, as well as the members of both Daeron's - and especially Aerion's - party. I'm pretty sure Aerion remained Dunk and Egg's mortal enemy all his life, and thus in extension also all Aerion's cronies.

Those lords clearly tried to install Aemon - who, as maester, would have had no party of his own - as puppet king against Prince Aegon. And the fact that both Aemon and (apparently) Bloodraven as well felt the need to go to the Wall after Egg rose to the Iron Throne, strongly suggests that Egg faced a major opposition at the Great Council. Say, he may have won only with a small majority of the votes, and if two or three great lords were against him, it would have been really a difficult situation.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

There had to be a fourth brother too - father of Stafford and Joanna.

Not if Joanna and Stafford descent from a brother of Tybolt and Gerold..? It is never specifically stated that Joanna and Tywin were first cousins. Just cousins. It makes sense that they were relatively closely related, but not necessarily through a younger brother of Tytos.

Was anything of this coincidentally mentioned during the reading? Because Stafford had been taken captive at one point before Tywin came into action against the Reynes/Tarbecks.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

On my way in bearing hot donuts.

[Veltigar]

I'm superpumped! A new infodump, hopeful news about releases and a new episode of GoT :D Thanks all those great people who have taken notes :D

[Casso, King of the Seals]

Hello, apparently George read the same Victarion sample chapter from TWOW that he already had before, but is there new information or specification of what happens in the chapter? (We have the transcription of about half the chapter, but only a very short and not detailed summary of the chapter's ending.) I would be very grateful if you specified what happens there. :) Thanks.

[Henri Flowers]

Some stuff from reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/26zgie/no_spoilers_any_reports_on_the_reading_grrm_did/)

"Stories of how Lann the Clever tricked the Casterlys to get Casterly Rock. They range from he slipped into a crack of the castle covered in butter and tormented the family to he simply got a daughter of Lord Casterly pregnant and married her thus his family inherited Casterly Rock (Lord Casterly had no sons). There is not enough evidence to know what truly happened (according to the maesters)

Lots of Kings of the Rock named Lorren (sp). Including a cross dressing king. After him the name fell out of favor.

Tytos Lannister had two twin older brothers Tion and I dont remember the other. Elleyn Reyne was betrothed to the unnamed twin but he died in battle. She persuaded their father, the current Lord of the Rock (Gerald I think) to let her marry Tion. He relented. Since Gerald was widowed, Ellyn became Lady of Casterly Rock in all but name. Tion died and Ellyn remarried a Tarbeck. Tytos married a Marbrand named Jane. Gerald died after Jane had Tywin and Tytos became Lord of the Rock

Alot about Tytos being friendly and being taken advantage of by his vassels especially the Reynes and Tarbecks. Specifics about how he exterminated the Tarbecks and Reynes. The Reynes went into the mines under their castle. They would'nt come out so Tywin closed off all the references to the mine and diverted a river to fill up the mines and drowning everyone in it.

Ser Duncan the Tall slayed Damon Blackfyre the III in battle. Im guessing thats an previously unnamed son of the Damon Blackfyre the II"

I wrote this if anyone has any more questions

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I wrote this if anyone has any more questions

Many questions :) :

1. Anything on Joanna's parents?

2. Gerald is supposed to be Gerold Lannister, from the Sworn Sword, yes?

3. Were there any years given? For the Reyne-extermination, or anything else?

4. Were Tion and the other Lannister brother whose name you couldn't remember truly twins?

5. Anything said on younger siblings of Tytos, or sisters at all?

[Henri Flowers]

Dunno, I expected something more horrible, like mass executions after they had surrendered or were taken prisoner. But from this snippet it looks like they were fighting to the last drop of blood and diverting a river seems like a legitimate military maneuver. Pretty clever, too. So, hard, yes, but not like the Sack of KL or even Duskendale. Elleyn Reyne-Lannister-Tarbeck, a femme fatale indeed.

Anything about the father of Joanna and Stafford and reasons for her betrothal to Tywin?

The Tarbecks were mass executed. George stopped reading right after the Reyne story so he didnt get as far as Tywin's marriage

Would not be surprised if Tybolt, his sons (if he had any), and at least one of Tytos' twin brothers died in that fourth Blackfyre rebellion. The Lannisters/Westerlands would have to be involved in that one, or else it would not have been covered in great detail, I think, in the history of the Westerlands.

Maia,

yeah, I think that, too. For all we know Stafford and Joanna were Tywin's first cousins. And I'd also not be surprised if Gerold and his father Damon had younger brothers, too. They would be the ancestors of Ser Damion and Lady Margot Lannister Peake.

Would it make sense to assume that Maekar named Bloodraven Hand after both Daeron and Aerion had died? That could explain him presiding over the Great Council. Would be stretch, but certainly not impossible... Especially if Maekar was not really happy with the type of man Egg grew into.

The Lords opposing Egg's rise to the throne would be most likely lords who considered him to be too invested in the affairs of the smallfolk, as well as the members of both Daeron's - and especially Aerion's - party. I'm pretty sure Aerion remained Dunk and Egg's mortal enemy all his life, and thus in extension also all Aerion's cronies.

Those lords clearly tried to install Aemon - who, as maester, would have had no party of his own - as puppet king against Prince Aegon. And the fact that both Aemon and (apparently) Bloodraven as well felt the need to go to the Wall after Egg rose to the Iron Throne, strongly suggests that Egg faced a major opposition at the Great Council. Say, he may have won only with a small majority of the votes, and if two or three great lords were against him, it would have been really a difficult situation.

If I remember correctly one of the twins did.

[Henri Flowers]

Many questions :) :

1. Anything on Joanna's parents? No.

2. Gerald is supposed to be Gerold Lannister, from the Sworn Sword, yes? Yes.

3. Were there any years given? For the Reyne-extermination, or anything else? I wanna say yes. Somebody who took notes probably has them

4. Were Tion and the other Lannister brother whose name you couldn't remember truly twins? Yes

5. Anything said on younger siblings of Tytos, or sisters at all? Tytos had a younger brother name Jason(???). I could be wrong on the name but he had a younger brother 7 year younger

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The Tarbecks were mass executed. George stopped reading right after the Reyne story so he didnt get as far as Tywin's marriage

So Tywin was not yet married to Joanna when the Reynes were all killed? They had been engaged for a few years by then..

Thank you! :D

That Tytos' younger brother was 7 years younger, and that Joanna is suggested to have been a few years older than Tywin, still makes it not all too likely that Joanna was Tywin's first cousin, IMO.

Any more info on Jason?