Is it me or have the last 2 books kinda rambled?

[Welease Woger]

AFfC is kind of slow, but I really like some storylines, specially Cersei's.

ADwD is my second favorite in the series until now.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

ADWD is my second fave too.

AFFC was actually pretty decent although it's my second least favorite in the series (ACOK is my least fave). There were two chapters I think should've been cut: Arys Oakheart's chapter and Arianne's chapter where she's locked up(the ending line for that chapter was awesome though)

Anyways, I'm talking as someone that personally enjoyed the Meereen chapters and don't think Dany's dealing with eastern cut outs.

[Ser Shaft of Hightower]

here's the deal:

Martin originally planned 3 books. Then it became 5 when the story required more fleshing out. The major thing people forget is that a 5-year gap was planned to occur between aSoS and tWoW, wherein the dragons and Stark kids would grow up - while nothing all that much else is happening beyond events already set in motion. BUT...people wanted more and more aSoIaF, naturally, so as the series' popularity grew, so did the demand for more books - specifically, 'a book' to cover the 5-year gap - enter aDwD. Problem was, this 'new' book turned out to be longer than any of the previous 3, so it had to be split into 2, which is what we got.

So effectively we're getting what we want, and ALSO complaining that the book/s is/are "too slow", when that's sort of the point. If Martin DIDN'T write these 2 and just plowed ahead skipping 5 years or so, then he'd more than likely have to just go back and write it anyways due to interest and all the questions about what happened during the gap.

Yes, waiting for resolution while GRRM writes the next book(s) is a bummer, but then you ALSO have the opportunity to re-read these books, which I have done 3 times now. And I can say that aFfC (which frustrated me the first time...so SLOW!!!) is my favorite of them all!

These books have all kinds of little mysteries to solve that are not obvious when you're reading the first time - where you're reading "to find out what happens", more or less. Upon further re-reads things become clearer. For example, the Pate chapters are fucking brilliant, yet i didn't catch "the big reveal" at all in the last chapter, the first time I read aFfC. Went right over my head.

In a similar way the Brienne chapters gain much greater richness, particularly the exchanges with Septon Meribold.

TL;DR : these books are basically what we asked for, and they get exponentially better upon re-reads. no need to fret! :O)

[Nilan8888]

Martin originally planned 3 books. Then it became 5 when the story required more fleshing out. The major thing people forget is that a 5-year gap was planned to occur between aSoS and tWoW, wherein the dragons and Stark kids would grow up - while nothing all that much else is happening beyond events already set in motion. BUT...people wanted more and more aSoIaF, naturally, so as the series' popularity grew, so did the demand for more books - specifically, 'a book' to cover the 5-year gap - enter aDwD. Problem was, this 'new' book turned out to be longer than any of the previous 3, so it had to be split into 2, which is what we got.

It wasn't that, it was what Martin said: that he had scenarios where you couldn't just say: 'and then 5 years happened'. Most importantly, The Wall: there's this horror beyond horrors coming for Westeros, and they kinda just kick back and take 5... for 5 years? Plus what about all the stuff in King's Landing? Cersei just gets along with the Tyrells for 5 years?

He wrote himself into a situation where some plot threads needed time to pass, while others couldn't possibly allow more time to pass. Maybe when writing 'aGoT' this didn't look too daunting, but when the details came in book-by-book, it was a different story.

Also, Martin's writing style hasn't waned in passing years: personally I think AFFC was better stylistically written than ACOK. It's that he's got to account for long periods of time where tons of things are happening for certain characters (Cersei) and virtually nothing is happening for others (Brienne).

[Beathag]

I have a card system. Ridiculous, of course, but i could not keep track of everyone. In ADwD, I stopped taking notes. All I could recall about the book was that a prince died. And someone in the North was stabbed. (Trying not to spoiler here.) That was a little over two years ago.

I remember being annoyed that "nothing" happened in the book -- the story line was not forwarded, just treading water.

Tonight I picked up ADwD, and read a chapter. I could not remember reading it. Then I flipped to the Epilogue, and it was all news to me.

Maybe I was in a fog when I read it. And, I did only read it once.

So, tomorrow, a reread.

Yes. Dance was much better than Feast. With all the wandering around in Feast, it was difficult to stay interested. I think Martin's point in Feast is the destruction of society during war. All civility is lost. The poorest suffer the most. People gravitate to anything that gives them a sense of order and understanding (hence the carving of stars into flesh -- a pain they can control). Feast left a me angry, I felt I wasted my time reading it. But I think it does demonstrate the feeling of helplessness victims of war experience. Brienne's wanderings are not unlike Holocaust survivors looking for family. Still did not enjoy the pace of the book.

As I noted above, I became irritated with Dance because it seemed like a lot of wandering and missed connections were going to be repeated. And I know I know I skipped several points of view. It is a better book than Feast. The reader gets a lot more information. I am not sure why Quentyn had to be killed, seemed like a waste of a character Martin had been building up.

What occurred to me as I was reading Dance, is that Martin was a television writer first. I think I am going to get some hate over that. But it is true. And they get away with duex in machina much more than in books. We usually meet the prime players early in the show/book, even though we don't realize their importance. They can then be brought forward later, and the viewer/reader doesn't feel cheated that a late comer pulls everything together. I am leery of Grif. I do not think Jon Connington (Rhaeger's best bud) would knowingly put forward a false Targ, but I have been wrong many times.

All over the place. Yes, Feast rambled. Dance is better. Some rambling, but we get more information.

[Low Born]

To new readers: do yourselves a favor and read AFfC and ADwD together. It's so much exciting.

Details here: http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-new-reader-friendly-combined-reading-order-for

Yea, definitely do this next time. I'm on my 3rd or 4th reread of the series but my first time doing AFFC and ADWD combined and it just flows so much better. I doubt I'll read them separately again.

[Beathag]

What a super idea. And thank you for the link. I am going to print it off, if I can. When I get to that point in this reread, I will do the combined reading.

Whoever pulled that together did a lot of work.

Thanks again.