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TWOW Character POV Ratios


mystikherb

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After looking at people's opinions on the potential POV ratios in TWOW I have only one major problem with everyone's assumptions, and that would be that GRRM has stated that the manuscript for TWOW is roughly 1,800 pages. So let's say that 1,500 (with roughly the last 100 pages being reserved for the appendices) of those pages make it into the book (Gods please! And double reinforced hardback plox), that's still about 500 pages more than ADWD. If ADWD had 70 chapters (excluding pro and epi) than I think we can safely assume that there will be somewhere between 100 and 120 chapters (Oh baby...) Now if there were to be 110 chapters this is what my personal (and hopeful) breakdown of the ratios would look like:

Daenerys 15

Davos 11

Sansa 10

Bran 9

Samwell 8

Arya 8

Jaime 6

Tyrion 6

Melisandre 5

Cersei 4

JonCon 4

Areo 4

Asha 3

Aeron 3

Brienne 3

Arianne 3

Jon 2

Theon 2

Victarion 2

Barristan 2

As you can see Daenerys would be the star of the book, which is only fitting seeing as how she needs to return to Meereen at the head of what used to be Jhaqo's khalasar, untie the Meereneese Knot, sail back to the Narrow Sea (undoubtedly having to make a few pit stops and right a few wrongs that were done to her, i.e. Volantis) and then land in Westeros. I'm curious to see if she will pull an Aegon I and take Dragonstone first or say screw it and just go for King's Landing.

While Daenerys certainly has a lot to accomplish, I also think this is going to be a Stark heavy book. I really hope that Davos plays a prominent role especially since he's got to get to Skagos, grab Rickon, get back to White Harbor, declare House Manderly and Robett Glover for Stannis, and then get back to Stannis (if Stannis doesn't die, that is). Sansa, Bran, and Arya also have a boat load to do. This book is called TWOW so I think most of the POV's will end up in the North one way or another by the end of the book. Sansa needs to solve things in the Vale, marry Harold, march her forces through mountain clan territory (which I'm sure looking forward to seeing Tyrion's influence upon), possibly stop at the Twins (where she may encounter BWB) and then get through the Neck and Bolton's forces. Bran will hopefully show us a lot about the Others and more greendreams, and some more warging would be nice. Arya still needs to finish her training. But I don't think she'll join up with Daenerys. I think she'll meet up with Massey and head back to Winterfell with him.

I expect magic to play a larger role in this novel. Sam will of course be constructing his maester's chain, while learning about Dragons and the Others, eventually becoming Sam the Wizard. Melisandre is going to play a big role at the Wall. I think she'll eventually resurrect Jon. I don't believe that either Jaime or Brienne will die but rather go separate ways after Lady Stoneheart has her say. I expect Jaime will be sent to King's Landing to kill Cersei on Stoneheart's orders, or he will end up going into the Westerlands. I think Brienne will stay with BWB and possibly end up at the Twins.

As for the prologue chapter, there has been a pattern with them. They have always been about the Others, a Maester, or R'hllor. I think this time around it will encompass all three and we'll get a prologue from Bowen Marsh's POV

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Hmmm. I don't know if there will be that many chapters to be honest. But, if there are I think that there are a few miscalculations on your part, Blackfyre Tyrell. The number of Cersei chapters should be higher because she is our only POV at KL and the number of Mel chapters should be higher because she will be our only POV at the Wall until Jon's return. I think that both Dany and Davos are likely inflated and Tyrion is underestimated too. Aside from that you're pretty right. I would amend it to be

Dany-11

Davos-6

Tyrion-8

Cersei-7

Melisandre-8

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Just to clarify, when GRRM says 1800 pages, he means 1800 manuscript pages. ADWD was 1510 manuscript pages, and just under 1000 pages. I'm pretty sure his limit is ~1500 manuscript pages so expect a similar size book.

That being said, I predict that many characters (i.e. Barristan, Asha, Victarion, Brienne, maybe even Theon and JonCon) will slowly lose POVs since there will be other more important characters along with them. I don't think we will see many Melisandre chapters (if any) because we weren't even supposed to have any in the first place. GRRM said once that he doubted there would ever be a Mel chapter because "She would give too much away". For the same reason, I don't think we'll get much Bran, though he'll most likely pop up in Theon and Jon's chapters, and hopefully in Sansa's as well. I think there will be roughly 70-75 chapters.

Dany-10

Jon-8

Tyrion-6

Sansa-6

Jaime-6

Theon-5

Davos-5

Arya-4

Arianne-4

Sam-4

Cersei-3

Victarion-3

Aeron-2

Barristan-2

Bran-2

JonCon-2

Melisandre-1

Areo-1

Something like that.

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GRRM said once that he doubted there would ever be a Mel chapter because "She would give too much away". For the same reason, I don't think we'll get much Bran, though he'll most likely pop up in Theon and Jon's chapters, and hopefully in Sansa's as well.

not to mention that grrm has often said he finds brans chapters the most difficult to write
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Jon Con is planning on meeting the Tyrells in the field, he will not be at Storms End long, and Arriane is not heading to Kings Landing, she is heading to Storms End, some sand snakes along with Myrcella are heading for KL. We are at the very least going to get Arrianes opinion of Aegon, and I do not see it stopping there, I see no logic behind thinking that GRRM has read all of a characters chapters over a year before the book is even released.

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Jon Con is planning on meeting the Tyrells in the field, he will not be at Storms End long, and Arriane is not heading to Kings Landing, she is heading to Storms End, some sand snakes along with Myrcella are heading for KL. We are at the very least going to get Arrianes opinion of Aegon, and I do not see it stopping there, I see no logic behind thinking that GRRM has read all of a characters chapters over a year before the book is even released.

Nymeria is going to King's Landing to take her father's seat on the small council.

I wonder if Arianne will get trapped at Storm's End. We know that the Tyrell forces are heading there so I'm not sure if it safe for her to go there now.

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I'm operating on the assumption that Tommen's reign is pretty much doomed. If Aegon's going to KL, Arianne seems perfect to follow him, especially since JonCon's clock is ticking.

Assuming Maggy the Frog was right about Tommen and Myrcella, Cersei will be a great viewpoint to watch Aegon replace Tommen. And since the valonqar better be Jaime, that adds another pair of eyes in KL.

I think it's inevitable to the story that all the POVs will convene at various locations. It's already starting in Meereen and the North. Either GRRM can keep all his POVs (assuming they will all survive, a terrible assumption) or he can demote some minor characters who have already met up with major characters (E.g. Asha, Brienne, Barristan once Dany comes back)

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My predictions:

Dany-9

I expect Dany to take over as the character with the most POVs. She is obviously one of the series' most essential character, if not the most important. She also has the most distance to travel in this upcoming book (both geographically and story-wise). Somehow she has to tie-up the dothraki storyline, the Mereen storyline and FINALLY head to Westeros. GRRM also needs the readers to become reinvested in Dany following A Dance with Dragons and her seemingly stagnant storyline. This should be a very big book for her.

Tyrion-8

Tyrion has been a staple thus far through the series. He is obviously tied to Dany's storyline now and they will likely make their way back home together. Tyrion is currently surrounded by the most POV characters, which breeds the opportunity to intersect with other POV chapters (like the first three books did often).

Sansa-7

Sansa was left completely out of A Dance with Dragons. However, she is still one of the most important characters. After all, she is the eldest living Stark. Sansa, Littlefinger and the rest of the Vale should have a large role to play in the unfolding story in Westeros. I expect her to be featured often in Winds.

Arya-6

Unlike Sansa, Arya had a pair of chapters in the last installment. However, like Dany, Arya has a lot of distance to travel in the upcoming book. She needs to return to Westeros and rejoin the main plot. She has been off on her own for two books, I for one am ready to see her leave Bravos.

Arianne-6

Arianne is obviously headed towards Aegon. Many are guessing she will take over as our eyes to Aegon in place of the dying Griffin. I actually enjoy Connington's POV, I think his perspective is interest because it adds depth to the story and gives insight into the past we never had before (similar to Barristan). However, I agree with those who believe Arianne will meet Aegon and take over his POVs. If this is the case then six chapters seems about right.

Jamie-5

I have to believe Jamie will be featured fairly prominently in Winds of Winter. He may not be as important as Dany, the Stark girls or his diminutive brother. However, he and Brienne are our only POVs in the Riverlands. They are our only witnesses to the Brotherhood without Banners and Catelyn's corpse. Jamie could also intersect with Sansa and is sure to with Cersei eventually. Jamie's storyline in the upcoming book is one of the greatest mysteries. He could however, also disappear, as he was at the end of Dance, for the majority of the book. However, after recently re-reading Storm, I have a big feeling about Jamie. He has been a POV longer than most at this point and I think he will be featured more as a result.

Jon-5

Huge wildcard here. Nobody but George knows what will happen with Jon: dead completely, dead and raised like Beric before him, raised as AA in a manner unlike we have yet to see in the series, wargs into Ghost for awhile, disappears for the entire book, surprise-it's just a flesh wound, etc. My belief is he disappears for a while while George focuses on the battles in Mereen and Winterfell, and other things going on in the South and East. I think Jon returns in the second half of the book and is featured prominently enough in that span to earn him five chapters.

Theon-5

I do not think Theon will die early in Winds. He had some of the best chapters in the last book and I think he has more story to tell. He and his sister are currently the only POVs surrounding Winterfell and I think he has more staying power than his Asha. He could also ultimately be taken to the wall and tell some story there in Jon's absence.

Bran-4

I expect Bran to be absent for long stretches of Winds like he has since Clash. However, I expect things to pick up for him in the later stages as we start to gear up for the conclusion of the series. He is sure to be involved in the final book(s).

Davos-4

Davos is sure to hold a Stark boy at some point in Winds. He was missing from the majority of Dance and is due to return soon. He could easily find himself closer to the Jamie and Arianne range. It is only a matter of how long he sticks around this book.

Sam-4

Sam has a lot of story to tell in old town. I expect him to have four long chapters catching us up on everything he and the maesters are up to, similar to Arya's chapters in the last couple books.

Barristan-3

We already know of a couple of his chapters. I expect him to have three chapters immediately surrounding the battle and then he will either die or have his POV status taken over by Tyrion.

Cersei-3

I think people forget that Dance's epilogue takes place just before the trial. So, Cersei's first trial will take place at the trial. Now, I expect the Hound to be the Faith's representative in the duel and defeat his brother (tying up that storyline). That means, I expect Cersei to be destined for death from the onset. Now maybe her execution is post-poned while Aegon approaches Kings Landing, maybe she is rescued. Maybe Jamie shows up. In any matter, I expect her to be placed on the back burner.

Victarion-2

Victarion will have two chapters surrounding the battle and then either die or have his POV status taken over by Tyrion.

Jon C-2

As I said before, I really enjoy Connington's chapters, new take on the history of Westeros. However, I expect Arianne to take his POV role from him soon after she arrives.

Aeron-1

George has been teasing Aeron's chapter. However, I expect him to catch us up on Euron's movements... and then get himself killed. George said before he originally planned to have an Aeron chapter in Dance. I expect that chapter to close his story and set the stage for Euron's next move.

Melisandre-1

She may not have any chapter. However, I believe George will set one chapter at the wall before Jon returns as a POV. Melisandre is already there and could fill in and give us some prophecies of things to come.

Asha-1

Asha is now reunited with her one-time grope buddy. Theon is the more important POV and I expect him to retain his duties rather than his sister. She could also die.

Brienne-0

Now that she is reunited with Jamie, I see her perspective obsolete. She will return to her status during Storm, Jamie's sidekick, as they tour the Riverlands. She also has a lot of mystery surrounding her motives with Jamie and those would be revealed once we get inside her head.

So those are my thoughts on the POV character ratios. Let me know what you agree with!

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I am in the camp of people who that the Dany will be seriously reduced in terms of the number of chapters she receives.

While she is with the Dothraki, I would be expecting maybe three chapters from her viewpoint.

When we have a major character (like Tyrion) involved in Daenerys' arc, the dramatic tension would be reduced if we saw the whole situation from the viewpoint of the decision maker. It is more likely that we will see Tyrion trying to manipulate Dany and trying to earn her trust through his own viewpoint than through hers.

It would have been like reading the Merman's court from Manderly's PoV rather than Davos'.

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OP - Arya has a hefty number of chapters in all of the books so I wouldn't worry; even then the AFFC n ADWD are aberrations. Same with Sansa. Its not like the TV show where they've become extras in their own POV. Martin likes to talk about how Arya and Sansa are going to eventually do something. Plus I doubt he would pass up the chance for more of Arya wandering about in the woods again... Thats a bit harsh, theres nothing wrong with Sansas chapters.

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I am in the camp of people who that the Dany will be seriously reduced in terms of the number of chapters she receives.

While she is with the Dothraki, I would be expecting maybe three chapters from her viewpoint.

When we have a major character (like Tyrion) involved in Daenerys' arc, the dramatic tension would be reduced if we saw the whole situation from the viewpoint of the decision maker. It is more likely that we will see Tyrion trying to manipulate Dany and trying to earn her trust through his own viewpoint than through hers.

It would have been like reading the Merman's court from Manderly's PoV rather than Davos'.

Dany really doesn't have that many at all in the series. ADWD was the big exception to that rule, even though she does the least amount of stuff. I think she only has 5 or so chapters in the first two books and a bit more in the third. When you consider that the Starks n Catalyn n Tyrion share the same story as well so can build on eachother this is really telling. But yeah, I wouldn't expect more than half a dozen Dany chapters; which is actually the norm.

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Dany really doesn't have that many at all in the series. ADWD was the big exception to that rule, even though she does the least amount of stuff. I think she only has 5 or so chapters in the first two books and a bit more in the third. When you consider that the Starks n Catalyn n Tyrion share the same story as well so can build on eachother this is really telling. But yeah, I wouldn't expect more than half a dozen Dany chapters; which is actually the norm.

dany has quite a few povs, she has 10 in adwd making her the third highest number in that book, and 31 overall putting her 4th in number of overall povs after tyrion, jon and arya

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dany has quite a few povs, she has 10 in adwd making her the third highest number in that book, and 31 overall putting her 4th in number of overall povs after tyrion, jon and arya

Yes but Dany only has ten in AGOT because her character goes on this big personal change and is introduced. After that, even with a big series of events, Martin is very low key, 5 for ACOK and 6 for ASOS even though she has House of Undying n gets an army wins some wars. To put that in perspective, Arya, whilst wandering the riverlands in the same period has 23 chapters dedicated to her exploits. AFFC/ADWD is an anomaly because Aryas chapters were much lower than before and GRRM wasn't going to write those books at all. Because he wanted to (attempt) a comparative case study in rulership with Jon, Cersei she had to have an equally weighty number of chapters. So I suspect Dany getting dothraki on side will be much the same as before with only 6 as this is the general rule for most of her books.

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Yes but Dany only has ten in AGOT because her character goes on this big personal change and is introduced. After that, even with a big series of events, Martin is very low key, 5 for ACOK and 6 for ASOS even though she has House of Undying n gets an army wins some wars. To put that in perspective, Arya, whilst wandering the riverlands in the same period has 23 chapters dedicated to her exploits. AFFC/ADWD is an anomaly because Aryas chapters were much lower than before and GRRM wasn't going to write those books at all. Because he wanted to (attempt) a comparative case study in rulership with Jon, Cersei she had to have an equally weighty number of chapters. So I suspect Dany getting dothraki on side will be much the same as before with only 6 as this is the general rule for most of her books.

although I don't know how grrm works, I imagine he has far better reasons for choosing how many povs a character has other than "well normally they only have a few", I would guess that he picks based on how much he's enjoying writing that particular storyline/how well he'd writing it and how difficult he's finding writing it, as well as how much material he needs to get through for that character
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Because Dany seems to be convinced "to go forwards I must go back" with all the prophecies filling her head I think this means the character will go to Vaes Dothrak rather than return to Mereen. This has to involve multiple chapters in order to justify or explain (I suspect) the crones kneeling before her and all the dothraki joining her. If she simply swooped in on Drogon and they said she was awesome it would be pretty stupid. Likely there is some magic ceremony to do, some new dothraki characters to provide insight into the supernatural, some dothraki who don't like her and try to fight. We may even have a rip off of Wheel of Time when Rand gets the Aeil and the Shaido with a seperate Stallion who will mount the world. Leaving Dany to fight this battle. Because Dany can't share POV this means she will have to support her own arc and only much later can she share POV to move things along. But, I still think people are being very quick to assume that Dany has to make it to Westeros this book. There is too much stuff set up by Martin in Essos from ADWD to resolve and if the battle for Mereen is any indication then hes not interested in glossing over this to get her there before the final book.

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