R+L=J v 58

[Alia of the knife]

thanks, this indeed suggests that LF was not involved, the wording is still a bit ambiguous, not so much the "probably", but the questioner asking what Littlefinger was doing during Robert's Rebellion - there is a sizeable time gap between Brandon riding into the Red Keep and Arryn raising his banners. Clearer phrasing on Martin's part and a more precise question might've helped^^

I will say listening to the Q&A, waiting for that piece of information was painful. :stillsick:

[Bushido]

The member who actually attended the reading said this Q&A didn't happen at Bubonicon 45.

However, that is still GRRM, so carry on :D

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Well, from my understanding he was recovering at RR after the fight, and got sent back via litter after he had impregnated Lysa - in the books, there are two reasons given for sending him away, one being the fight, the other being the pregnancy.

Admittedly, I am not that versed concerning this theory, although I am inclined to believe it (except for the inconsistency that is Ethan Glover). Could you please explain how his severe injury prevented him from misinforming Brandon, when whe was apparently travelling in a litter to the fingers after Hoster threw him out? I always thought his injuries were very bad, anyway (bad armor, litter,..)

:dunno: it just seems that if he was near death after the duel then he wouldn't have been up to taking revenge a fortnight later. I honestly never heard his injuries described in such dire terms before (it's not in the text) and GRRM's tone certainly seemed pretty clear that he didn't think LF was involved in the Rebellion (I assume that would include precipitating it?) It truly did not appear to me that GRRM was prevaricating there.

[Alia of the knife]

:dunno: it just seems that if he was near death after the duel then he wouldn't have been up to taking revenge a fortnight later. I honestly never heard his injuries described in such dire terms before (it's not in the text) and GRRM's tone certainly seemed pretty clear that he didn't think LF was involved in the Rebellion (I assume that would include precipitating it?) It truly did not appear to me that GRRM was prevaricating there.

I tend to agree, because he even seemed surprised at the question.

[Alia of the knife]

Before I head off to bed, I just had to leave everyone with this.

It's a love song from the movie "House of Flying Daggers," and it just seems fitting here.

The lyrics:

"rare beauty in the North...

She's the finest lady on earth

A glance from her, the city falls

A second glance leaves the whole nation in ruins

There is no city or nation that has been

More cherished than a beauty like this"

[LadyMary]

In short, all you have are the emotions you think were in people's heads?

There is no hard data at all?

Someone needs to post the full app text. Perhaps that's a little better.

It also bears pointing out that

...is quite false. He died with a woman's name on his lips. (If GRRM has been more explicit somewhere, that's not from the HotU vision.)

Also,

...has no foundation in the text. We are never told where it comes from. And frankly, citing a third-hand account is not a good way of making your case stronger.

And what do you suppose it means, that all those people were under some collective delusion?

Yes, he has. It was 'Lyanna'. He used the same trick with "a name" as with "blue flower", which is several chapters later confrimed as a blue rose.

We are not told a lot of things. Dany says that all her information comes from Viserys who was a boy of eight, so the options are rather limited: either after Brandon's act the gossip permeated the court in a way that it reached even his ears, or he received some censored version from his family, or both. While definitely not something to rely on, it still has the same basis as what is told around Westeros, which does lend it some credit.

Even before the app came out everyone in the books - everyone - accepts Rhaegar's abduction of Lyanna as a fact. There are other mysteries that have multiple rumors about them, such as the various possibilities for Lord Stark's bastard son's mother, but there has never been one bit of text that ever questioned or refuted that Rhaegar abducted Lyanna.

Robert, Ned and those on their side in the war accept it as a fact. Selmy and Danaerys on the Targaryen side, accept it as a fact. If it wasn't so, why wouldn't those who want to revere Rhaegar' memory refute it as merely a rumor? There are different versions of how Rhaegar did it, or his motivations for doing so - some more romanticized than others, but it is a commonly accepted fact that it did indeed happen and the app confirms it with the added detail that he had help from two of the Kings Guard.

That being the case, the other facts in evidence support that Rhaegar was in hiding with Lyanna for the beginning of the war. He was in the South from which he returned, and South is where Lyanna was found. The Kings Guard were guarding the tower in which Lyanna was being kept. They were following Rhaegar;s orders - according to GRRM and only after defeating them was Ned able to be reunited with his dying sister in her bed of blood (a.k.a. - birthing bed). It is a reasonable conclusion, based on other textual evidence, that Lyanna had given birth. I suppose it's possible that Lyanna was raped by one of the Kings Guards who were there at the tower of Joy, but given Ned's recollections about them, one would think he'd have a great dislike for any man who mistreated his sister in that way, and he doesn't He doesn't feel that way about Rhaegar either.

We could probably have a nice debate about what motivated the otherwise well-regarded, dutiful, honorable Rhaegar to abduct Lyanna, and what that said about the state of his marriage to Elia, or his mental health. But that doesn't change the fact that all accept - Rhaegar did abduct Lyanna.