R+L=J v 59

[The guy from the Vale]

Interesting idea. The Danyes and Hightowers backing up Howland Reed's claims would go a long way to making him credible. The whents, too, but alas there are no Whents left...

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Interesting idea. The Danyes and Hightowers backing up Howland Reed's claims would go a long way to making him credible. The whents, too, but alas there are no Whents left...

And Leyton, like Howland, is something of a shut-in himself. Makes you wonder.

[MtnLion]

And Leyton, like Howland, is something of a shut-in himself. Makes you wonder.

Precisely why I wondered . . .

[Ser Creighton]

Interesting idea. The Danyes and Hightowers backing up Howland Reed's claims would go a long way to making him credible. The whents, too, but alas there are no Whents left...

Shella is still alive, just not in power.

[Dead Wolf]

Shella is still alive, just not in power.

Didn't Arya find out that she was dead in her chapter before the RW?

[Ser Creighton]

Well guys it's over, it's been proven Jon is not a Targaryen. Yes a new poster recently figured out that Jon can't be Targaryen because he burnt his hand and as we all know Dany is fire proof. Hahahahahaha, oh it happens once a month at least. I imagine a certain poster and who has vehemently struggled to explain the whole waking of the dragons, Taragryens not being fire proof, and Martins own words once again, looked soomething like this while reading the OP with yet another fire proof thread.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GU1w3pXuYkg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DGU1w3pXuYkg

[Ser Creighton]

Didn't Arya find out that she was dead in her chapter before the RW?

Maybe was that Sarya, and you also have, Wynafrei who I think is still married to a Frey.

[Ser Creighton]

No, Robert had the best claim to the throne because his grandmother was a Targaryen. You need to do some reading. ;)

His family also had Targaryen blood to begin with being the legitimized bastards of the Targaryen line going back to Aegon I.

[Ser Creighton]

And you haven't explained why Ned should have so cruelly denied the truth to Jon (causing him a very deep emotional wound), if his parentage was anything but R+L.

In Maester Aemon's word 'kill the boy and let the man be born'.

Have a look at our ravings starting from here and here, with the brilliant contributions of Ygrain, Lady G and many other 'veterans' of this board :)

:agree: What some people fail to see in the Iron Emmett episode is Jon's out of body detachment that Arya did NOT experience while stabbing the Tickler (she was oh-so-very present though in a frenzied rage). What strikes me is not only the violence of Jon's 'berserk trip', but the peculiar detachment he experiences during it. He disconnects entirely from reality (as often happens with schizofrenia) and only realises what he's doing when Halder and Horse pulls him away. If this is not a touch of Targaryen madness...

Haha, yes I will have to ask the vets what it is up with this whole Jon is a Targaryen thing. I had a little nod nod wink wink in my post to Gwen who actually had a whole thread on Arthurian legend awhile back. If you look you might just find my name on a few of those links you posted. Now which Frozenfire are you, I lose track sometimes? Your 3, hmmmm do I know number 3? I think I do, maybe that was 8.

[Ser Creighton]

A song of Ice and Fire is supposed to be PTWP from the line of Rhaella and Aerys, i.e. one person. None of the known Targs possesses the ice element.

Ice Element? Are the Starks Ice proof? I always figure the actual Ice element if you cant to call it that is Ice. The Wall. Sure Jon and the Starks are from the north but so is everyone else in the North. Jon is more symbolically tied to the wall then the Starks, having spent most of the books at the wall or as part of the watch. He is very heavily tied to the wall. Stark blood sure but his story has not been all that much Stark related.

[Ser Creighton]

I think it will be a pro-Jon move, myself. I keep getting a feeling that the White Bull and the proximity of Old Town to the tower are going to play a pivotal role in revealing Jon's heritage.

Yeah you have the Hightowers and the Daynes acting funny no doubt about that. But Hightower who is by far the most powerful house in the reach, well above the Tyrells in terms of wealth and man power. Said to even be on par with the Lannisters. Known to be very rich, very loyal, and very powerful. Not really sure how Gerold could of set something up. Oldtown is not that close to the Tower of Joy, sure Martin can say it is only 15 minutes away, but current maps he has approved say otherwise.

But that is not the real problem, when could Gerold have told them about Jon? I assume Jon is pretty young when Ned gets there given the way his mother died, only speculation of course. So when did he have time to go their and tell them and get back? It's possible but to me Oldtown seems divided between the Hightowers and the Citadel. Citadel I figure want Dany dead, and I am not sure what the Hightowers want. Maybe Jon but I don't think they know or else they would have sided with the Starks and if they did that all bets are off. They support Jon but let his family get slaughterd and didn't help them or try to make the peace and sided with the Lannisters? They think this would go over well with the person they think is the king?

The Hightowers started with Renly, then flipped to Lannister. Stannis is the one who was with Jon and working with him, and the Hightowers are on the opposite side of that war. I think Malora is the real wild card there as to what is going on. I wonder if she is like Jojen or Bran or perhaps has Targaryen blood, it really does not seem his endgame is pro Jon as the Hightowers have done nothing for the Starks and fight against them. If people really knew about Jon and wanted to make contact the wall was the perfect place. The Hightowers could of sent anyone up their they wanted to take the black and meet with Jon at any point they wanted to, by land or by sea.

The thing about the whole secret plot for Jon is that Jon has been at the wall for near three years, 2 of those years or more Ned and Robert have been dead and not one person has tried to make contact with him. Reed I can understand his goal being to keep Jon a secret as Ned wished, and then not doing anything till he gets the will from Robb which took a long time if he has even got it yet because Greywater watch is hard to find.

But the Hightowers and Daynes? Just what is stopping them from meeting with Jon they know where he is at, he sent them all letters, everyone knows he is the LC. If there plan is a coupe for JOn they would probably want to clue him in and they have had a rather long time to do that.

[Dead Wolf]

These are excellent ideas!

What do you think the relationship is between Lady Wylla Manderly and the Wylla that Lord Eddard talks about to King Robert in the Winterfell crypts?

I've been looking at the idea Wylla is the name of the fisherman's daughter that Davos learns about in Dance with Dragons. The theory goes that Wylla is a name used by the Manderlys, who are the most powerful family living in the area around the Bite. So people in that area might use Manderly names for their children. The fisherman plied his trade in and around the Bite, so it shouldn't surprise us if his daughter was named Wylla.

So Eddard got together with Wylla-the-fisherman's daughter early in Robert's Rebellion. She traveled with him until she started showing signs of pregnancy. Eddard then left her with a bastard in her belly and a bag of silver and told her to head for Winterfell. He went on with his army.

Wylla went back to Winterfell and by the time Lady Catelyn arrived she was all set up and passing herself off as Jon's wetnurse. After he saw Catelyn's reaction to Jon, Eddard realized he had to send Wylla as far away as he could, so he set her up with new employment as a wetnurse to his friends in House Dayne. He's very afraid that Catelyn will find out that he brought his mistress home from the war, so he lies about Wylla being the wetnurse and never tells Jon that his mother was right there in Winterfell with him when he was a baby. Lord Edric Dayne is telling the truth when he tells Arya that Wylla has been at Starfall since before he (Edric) was born because Edric was born a few years after Wylla got there from Winterfell.

If this is right, Wylla Manderly's name is there to get us thinking that Wylla is a name used around the Bite. But if you have another idea about what we ought to make of the name Wylla Manderly I'm very interested.

Here is my best guess. The Wylla that Ned and Ned mention is a cousin/sister to Wyman Manderly. After crossing the Bite, Ned's first destination would have been White Harbor where he could call his banners. Ned didn't want to talk about her because she was a highborn lady and if he had dishonored her he wouldn't want it to be widespread. After Ned marched Wylla found out she was pregnant and decided to go to WF. When Ned found her at WF he sent her to Starfall after possibly hearing Lady Dayne was pregnant. My crackpot theory is that Wylla was Lady Hornwood, does anyone remember her first name? I don't have my book with me right now

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Here is my best guess. The Wylla that Ned and Ned mention is a cousin/sister to Wyman Manderly. After crossing the Bite, Ned's first destination would have been White Harbor where he could call his banners. Ned didn't want to talk about her because she was a highborn lady and if he had dishonored her he wouldn't want it to be widespread. After Ned marched Wylla found out she was pregnant and decided to go to WF. When Ned found her at WF he sent her to Starfall after possibly hearing Lady Dayne was pregnant. My crackpot theory is that Wylla was Lady Hornwood, does anyone remember her first name? I don't have my book with me right now

Lady Hornwood's name was Donella. Not Wylla. There's nothing linking Wylla from Dorne to White Harbor. I'm also not sure how you arrived at your explanation for sending her to Starfall.

And thanks but I'll stick the prevailing theory.

[Dead Wolf]

Lady Hornwood's name was Donella. Not Wylla. There's nothing linking Wylla from Dorne to White Harbor. I'm also not sure how you arrived at your explanation for sending her to Starfall.

And thanks but I'll stick the prevailing theory.

I wasn't trying to convince you, I was giving my best guess for a possible connection between the two Wyllas

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I wasn't trying to convince you, I was giving my best guess for a possible connection between the two Wyllas

And it's not nearly as compelling as the case that there isn't any connection. Especially when I've already suggested how two totally unrelated women in different parts of the country can still have the same name.

[Alia of the knife]

Haha I love Christian Bale, but since he's out, my first choice to replace him was actually Michael Fassbender.

Agree with you both on the Batman.

When I suggested to my husband he give Ben a chance, he basically had the same reaction that you had to Ruby. :laugh:

[Alia of the knife]

I agree with Apple Martini's points. Also I want to add my thoughs on Ghost: Other than his resemblance to a heart tree, its also possible that the original Stark sigil was a white direwolf on a grey background. The citadel uses white ravens to signal the arrival of winter so why not a white direwolf for a house so associated with winter and the old gods? According to Old Nan, the Long Night was not literally a night that lasted a generation. Instead the days were very short and sun hid for years at a time. The grey might represent the long night.

When bastards inherit, they usually invert the colours of their house. So if in the past a bastard Stark was legitimised and inherited, he might have inverted the Stark colours to their present form of a grey direwolf on a field of white.

You ARE a genius! Great catch. :bowdown:

[Ruby Chevrolet]

And it's not nearly as compelling as the case that there isn't any connection. Especially when I've already suggested how two totally unrelated women in different parts of the country can still have the same name.

I saw your "explanation" for the two Wyllas and found it very weak. You should think that one through some more.

[Yukle]

I agree with Apple Martini's points. Also I want to add my thoughs on Ghost: Other than his resemblance to a heart tree, its also possible that the original Stark sigil was a white direwolf on a grey background. The citadel uses white ravens to signal the arrival of winter so why not a white direwolf for a house so associated with winter and the old gods? According to Old Nan, the Long Night was not literally a night that lasted a generation. Instead the days were very short and sun hid for years at a time. The grey might represent the long night.

When bastards inherit, they usually invert the colours of their house. So if in the past a bastard Stark was legitimised and inherited, he might have inverted the Stark colours to their present form of a grey direwolf on a field of white.

My head just blew up. That's enormously and hugely possible and ridiculously clever. :bowdown:

I'm not saying I'm convinced that it's true, because I think that albino direwolves seem to be rare so a grey one on a banner makes more sense. And the Stark white is probably just snow but nonetheless it's close to the most clever fan theory I've ever read. :D

[Alia of the knife]

:bowdown: Set designers aka in the Game of Trolls you win or you die: link here.

Welcome to the boards btw, and thanks for bringing up something new and - why not? - funny. It happens rarely :)

Amen.

Also, here is this:

Michael Huisman who plays in "Nashville," and "Treme" has been cast in a secret role for the fourth season of aGoT.

Could it be a flashback of Brandon Stark? :ph34r:

http://tvline.com/2013/08/28/game-of-thrones-season-4-cast-michiel-huisman/