was stannis meant to be likeable

[E-Ro]

Lmao.

It's true, I have some serious issues that's why I like stannis, because im dysfunctional. Lord of beyond the wall you really nailed it brah.

[StannisBamfatheon]

Lmao.

It's true, I have some serious issues that's why I like stannis, because im dysfunctional.

I have to read a few Stannis quotes every night before bed otherwise the monsters will get me

[E-Ro]

I have to read a few Stannis quotes every night before bed otherwise the monsters will get me

Omg I thought I was the only one.

[Toxspecific]

Omg how could Stannis kill Renly, poor innocent not-a-Throne-stealing-douchebag Renly?

[The Drunkard]

does anyone know how grrm feels about Stannis?

It's well known he likes Tyrion but with Stannis I can't tell if he's meant to be liked or misliked or if grrm just wants him to be a completely grey character

Grey character, definitely. I don't think he's meant to be a character the audience wholely supports or wholely despises, he's meant to be one that divides people. Between traitors and king's men.

[Toxspecific]

Now where the fuck is that GRRM interview.

ETA: I think this is it: 'And it is important that the individual books refer to the civil wars, but the series title reminds us constantly that the real issue lies in the North beyond the Wall. Stannis becomes one of the few characters fully to understand that, which is why in spite of everything he is a righteous man, and not just a version of Henry VII, Tiberius or Louis XI.'

[Dicer]

He's a hard man to like, but for some reason I do like him. I am not sure what it is. I can't stand Jaime Lannister, but I like Stannis. Maybe it's his anti-social behavior, the lack of friends and allies. The brother who was not popular or loved all that much. The underdog among the Baratheons.

I do hate how he treats Cressen and his family. Him burning people is just vile. But GRRM does write him as someone readers can root for once he went to the aid of the NW and he sided with the Starks. Pitting him against the horrible Boltons/Freys also helps.

[IRON BANK]

does anyone know how grrm feels about Stannis?

It's well known he likes Tyrion but with Stannis I can't tell if he's meant to be liked or misliked or if grrm just wants him to be a completely grey character

Stannis is meant to be liked, However he is also misunderstood. He lacks alot of text not being a pov, so his motivations are not expressed thoroughly through the text.

[Toxspecific]

I guess this is the part where everybody conveniently ignores the fact that GRRM called Stannis 'a righteous man'.

[Ser Edmure Tully]

I would not wish to sit and have a beer with him. Nor be around him in any social setting. I would not be friends with him, because his personality would just do me in.

However, his courage would inspire me and his prowess as a commander would give me confidence. His justice would earn him my loyalty as it did Davos, and his ability to stick to his principles would give him my respect.

I would follow Stannis Baratheon to whatever end. Not because I like him, but because I respect him.

[mormont]

I guess this is the part where everybody conveniently ignores the fact that GRRM called Stannis 'a righteous man'.

Well, what he said was 'which is why, in spite of everything, Stannis is a righteous man'. The quote clearly suggests that it is only the fact that Stannis understands that the real threat lies beyond the Wall that redeems him: it doesn't suggest that GRRM regards Stannis as 'righteous' outside of this qualification. In fact, it rather suggests the reverse.

[Toxspecific]

He called him righteous bro. Is a righteous man. Unless GRRM is stupid and does not know how to word his sentences, that's about as straightforward as it is. The words before this important sentences don't change them.

Lol I already knew before posting that line that someone would eagerly grab at the words 'in spite of everything'. All these words mean is that there are flaws to Stannis' character but overall he is righteous. Sorry but there's no working your way around this if you don't consider Stannis righteous. GRRM just said it in the plainest way possible.

[amanofhonor]

That whole of Westeros is a sinkhole and Stannis is the only who has the balls and the will to purify it.

Surely if you are a dishonorable individual and you like the Lannisters, the Tyrells, the Boltons or any other snakes in the story then you might dislike Stannis, but I think anyone with a tad of respect for justice is a fan.

[TalalOfDorne]

When I re-read Cressens POV, I dont get the impression he was supposed to be initially liked. And I think thats supposed to change as we see him more c

[Sansa_Stark]

Well, what he said was 'which is why, in spite of everything, Stannis is a righteous man'. The quote clearly suggests that it is only the fact that Stannis understands that the real threat lies beyond the Wall that redeems him: it doesn't suggest that GRRM regards Stannis as 'righteous' outside of this qualification. In fact, it rather suggests the reverse.

link the full quote or what you are saying can't really be put into context

[Pinkie Baelish]

To be honest, I think Martin was trying to deliberately fuck with reader's expectations like he did with Ned's death when Stannis was first introduced. Throughout AGOT, we hear about Stannis, and we get an almost mythical perception of the guy, like he's a traditional heroic, merciless figure, like he's the ultimate adversary to the Lannisters etc, etc. But then when we read the ACOK prologue, I think most people's reactions would have been: "Wait. THIS is Stannis? This grouchy fart?" And I would think that Martin's intentions were for most people to feel this way, so that we feel conflicted about rooting for him. Although he was the Lannister's main foe in ACOK, he was still portrayed as somewhat villainous. It's only in ASOS, where we really start to see him in a more different, honest light, in a manner that's similar to Jaime. The difference being that while Stannis did change a bit, I don't think he did a complete turnabout like Jaime for him to become so popular. On the contrary, he's a character who's still relatively unlikable from first impressions, but continues to grow on you.

For example, look at the Theon TWOW chapter. He really hasn't changed much from the perpetually grumpy guy that he is in the prologue from ACOK.

Let's put it this way: Jaime - likable personality, unlikable actions(pre-ASOS). Stannis - unlikable personality, likable actions(ASOS -)

[mormont]

He called him righteous bro. Is a righteous man. Unless GRRM is stupid and does not know how to word his sentences, that's about as straightforward as it is. The words before this important sentences don't change them.

Words placed before a phrase don't change its meaning? That's... a somewhat dubious contention. Try, for example, arguing that 'if you were the last man on earth, then and only then I'd consider going out with you' means the same as 'I'd consider going out with you'.

Context matters. It's perfectly clear what GRRM was saying, and what he was not saying.

GRRM just said it in the plainest way possible.

Well, no, he didn't. The plainest way possible would be to simply say 'Stannis is a righteous man', without the qualifications. But the qualifications are there, and they're fundamental to GRRM's point.

ETA - here's the link, though the full quote, context and all, is already quoted above.

[Toxspecific]

So your point is that when GRRM called him a righteous man, quoting word for word, he actually meant he isn't righteous. Ok.

[Pinkie Baelish]

So your point is that when GRRM called him a righteous man, quoting word for word, he actually meant he isn't righteous. Ok.

No, he's disagreeing with your statement that Martin intended for Stannis to be likable, which is why he called him a righteous man. When on the contrary, Martin says that "IN SPITE OF EVERYTHING ELSE, Stannis is still a righteous man". Which can be taken to mean that although he isn't really likable at all, he's still righteous.

[mormont]

So your point is that when GRRM called him a righteous man, quoting word for word, he actually meant he isn't righteous. Ok.

No: my point is that the phrase 'in spite of everything' carries a meaning that cannot simply be brushed aside. GRRM was very clear on exactly why he was using the descriptor of 'righteous': it was for a specific reason. To insist that he meant it to apply in general is simply to twist language.