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Rhaenys and Meraxes

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How are you betting they died? Ambush? Poisoning? Battle?

I have to say, this is probably one of the top two or three most intriguing tidbits to come out of a reading/info dump that I can remember. Because I'm betting it wasn't natural causes and as such, someone managed to kill a dragon.

Wonder if House Toland had anything to do with it ...

I'm also wondering if the book will go into explanation about how they died or if it will be left unsaid.

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If I am not mistaken, the only contextual evidence of how a dragon has been slain, is the story of Serwyn the Mirrorshield, although it is a tale from the age of heroes. He apparently stabbed Urrax through the eye with a spear. Its possible it went through his eye and into his brain. While dragons are magical creatures, its possible that they still follow that biological rule. Perhaps that is what Torrhen/Brandon Snow's idea for an assassination attempt was, shoot one through the eye with a wierwood arrow. So my best guess would be some type of ambush, whether Meraxes was asleep and snuck up upon, or some other trap.

2nd thought. Perhaps somehow the dornish were able to kill Rhaenys first, and its possible a dragon is easier to kill with out a rider. Who knows.

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I don't think House Toland has anything to do with it. I mean you would think that, if they killed a dragon, they would depict how they killed the dragon on their shields (e.g. if they stabbed it with a spear through the eye than that's what they would show). I think that the dragon swallowing its tail has more to do with their role in the Guerilla Warfare. Perhaps their ancestor planned the strategy to deal with an invading Targaryen army with dragons. Or perhaps their ancestor was responsible for leading Meraxes on a wild goose chase from castle to castle, never finding any targets. Hence the dragon is eating its own tail.

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To answer OP I think the dragon died during an ambush or - in the best GRRM style - completely unexpected by some randomly fired arrow. I think that the Maesters were probably the only ones who actually poisoned dragons.

If I am not mistaken, the only contextual evidence of how a dragon has been slain, is the story of Serwyn the Mirrorshield, although it is a tale from the age of heroes. He apparently stabbed Urrax through the eye with a spear. Its possible it went through his eye and into his brain. While dragons are magical creatures, its possible that they still follow that biological rule. Perhaps that is what Torrhen/Brandon Snow's idea for an assassination attempt was, shoot one through the eye with a wierwood arrow. So my best guess would be some type of ambush, whether Meraxes was asleep and snuck up upon, or some other trap.

Since Tyrion stated that death for a dragon travels through the eye I think we can savely assume that as true. After all Tyrion is the closest thing we have to an expert on dragons.

2nd thought. Perhaps somehow the dornish were able to kill Rhaenys first, and its possible a dragon is easier to kill with out a rider. Who knows.

This was brought up in the other thread as well. It would be interesting if we know how Targaryen dragons responded to the death of their riders. Did they fly back to base or did they stay put to protect the body of their fallen master? Personally, I think that later option is more likely.

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I think ambush is most likely, particularly if House Toland are involved: their sigil would presumably symbolise Rhaenys and Meraxes being led round in circles (into a trap) until they eventually died.

Or perhaps House Toland wasn't involved. After all, if they had killed Meraxes and Rhaenys and adopted a sigil demonstrating this, I find it hard to believe that Aegon would not use Balerion to destroy their castle and burn their lands. The Targaryens struggled to conquer Dorne, but I'm sure Aegon would not have had a problem destroying it. I've argued before that perhaps Aegon believed he was the Prince who was Promised, which would explain why he wants to unite Westeros but was unwilling to use ruthless tactics (i.e. Harrenhal) in Dorne. But if Rhaenys was killed, Aegon must have realised that he was not the Prince who was Promised, because one of the heads of the dragon would be dead, so he would have no reason not to avenge the woman he loved.

... That's just the long way of me saying that Rhaenys and Meraxes probably died after being ambushed, and none of the Dornish lords claimed it as their own victory.

But then more questions arise - like how did the Dornish actually kill them? I'd guess that Rhaenys was killed first (if not, why not keep her as a hostage?), and Meraxes eventually got killed too, probably by an arrow/spear/sword in its eye (it would explain Septon Barth's knowledge of how to kill dragons).

As a final note, I think that if the dragons were poisoned by the maesters, it was just something to stunt their growth and eventually make them extinct, otherwise they would risk being caught by the Targaryens.

However, thinking back to what Marwyn said to Sam (“Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords?"), perhaps it was a Dornish maester who killed Rhaenys and Meraxes?

Is there any confirmation that Rhaenys conquered any castles in Dorne?

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An ambush seems the most likely. I doubt it was poison, unless the Dornish have a poison that's strong enough to bring down a dragon, which I doubt (but anything's possible). My question is, what madness would cause Rhaenys to land in enemy territory? Or can they ambush a flying dragon?

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An ambush seems the most likely. I doubt it was poison, unless the Dornish have a poison that's strong enough to bring down a dragon, which I doubt (but anything's possible). My question is, what madness would cause Rhaenys to land in enemy territory? Or can they ambush a flying dragon?

If the Dornish ambushed Rhaenys and Meraxes then I think it would either be in The Prince's Pass or the Boneway. There they could ambush Meraxes and then throw spears at Meraxes, and maybe one was a lucky shot and went in Meraxes' eye. Rhaenys would then be forced to get off Meraxes and fight on foot, and then she might have been killed in single combat.

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An ambush seems the most likely. I doubt it was poison, unless the Dornish have a poison that's strong enough to bring down a dragon, which I doubt (but anything's possible). My question is, what madness would cause Rhaenys to land in enemy territory? Or can they ambush a flying dragon?

I actually think poison is the most likely cause - mainly because of the Red Viper. Maybe it's a tradition for Dornish princes/forces to use poison in combat like the Red Viper does. He seems to be very competent in creating new poisons even the maesters don't know about(Secret family recipes??) and it's strongly implied his poisons are strengthened using magic - Perhaps Dorne used a magically strengthened poison to kill Meraxes and Rhaenys.

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If the Dornish ambushed Rhaenys and Meraxes then I think it would either be in The Prince's Pass or the Boneway. There they could ambush Meraxes and then throw spears at Meraxes, and maybe one was a lucky shot and went in Meraxes' eye. Rhaenys would then be forced to get off Meraxes and fight on foot, and then she might have been killed in single combat.

I don't think this is too likely. Firstly, Rhaenys was not a warrior who fought on fought with a sword. GRRM has called her "a warrior in her own right", but she wasn't a fighter in the same way that Visenya was. And most importantly... why would they kill Rhaenys purposefully? Without her dragon and in captivity she is relatively powerless, and she would also be a very valuable hostage.

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I actually think poison is the most likely cause - mainly because of the Red Viper. Maybe it's a tradition for Dornish princes/forces to use poison in combat like the Red Viper does. He seems to be very competent in creating new poisons even the maesters don't know about(Secret family recipes??) and it's strongly implied his poisons are strengthened using magic - Perhaps Dorne used a magically strengthened poison to kill Meraxes and Rhaenys.

Perhaps poisoned weapons in an ambush then? Rhaenys wouldn't be stupid enough to accept anything edible from the Dornish.

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I don't think this is too likely. Firstly, Rhaenys was not a warrior who fought on fought with a sword. GRRM has called her "a warrior in her own right", but she wasn't a fighter in the same way that Visenya was. And most importantly... why would they kill Rhaenys purposefully? Without her dragon and in captivity she is relatively powerless, and she would also be a very valuable hostage.

It was just a thought. That's what I first thought would have happened if they were ambushed.

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Depending on the narrowness of the Boneway/Prince's Pass, they could have ambushed and tangled Rhaenys and Meraxes with a steel net, then blocked in the dragon by maybe caving in the pass on both sides. Then just arrowed the shit out of both of them. All of this assuming Rhaenys and Meraxes had a reason to land inside the pass.

Thing is, yeah, hostages and all - but maybe this was done by a group of individuals seeking blood. Maybe Dorne proper had nothing to do with it, but some of its citizens. We know the Dornish are easily excitable after all. And you can't really destroy a place when literally all of the place's men can disappear completely. I don't really see the difference between Aegon having no qualms torching Harrenhal and doing the same thing to Dorne. He torched Harrenhal and gave the Riverlands to those faithful to him; you just can't make a difference unless you're actually "destroying" those unfaithful, of some import, instead of just busting up their keeps (i.e., Blackfyre Rebellions). They obviously have somewhere else to go, and I would love to see what Aegon's followers think of a King who torches women and kids.

Anyway, the Yellow Toad wasn't lying when she told Rhaenys to return at her own peril.

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Do dragons need to drink? If yes than the likely place for an ambush would be somewhere in the Dornish dessert, where there are only a small amount of watering holes big enough for a dragon to quench it's thirst. Like perhaps somewhere near Hellholt? IIRC the Ullers have a reputation for being crazy and you certainly need to be crazy to go after a dragon.

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Depending on the narrowness of the Boneway/Prince's Pass, they could have ambushed and tangled Rhaenys and Meraxes with a steel net, then blocked in the dragon by maybe caving in the pass on both sides. Then just arrowed the shit out of both of them. All of this assuming Rhaenys and Meraxes had a reason to land inside the pass.

Thing is, yeah, hostages and all - but maybe this was done by a group of individuals seeking blood. Maybe Dorne proper had nothing to do with it, but some of its citizens. We know the Dornish are easily excitable after all. And you can't really destroy a place when literally all of the place's men can disappear completely. I don't really see the difference between Aegon having no qualms torching Harrenhal and doing the same thing to Dorne. He torched Harrenhal and gave the Riverlands to those faithful to him; you just can't make a difference unless you're actually "destroying" those unfaithful, of some import, instead of just busting up their keeps (i.e., Blackfyre Rebellions). They obviously have somewhere else to go, and I would love to see what Aegon's followers think of a King who torches women and kids.

Anyway, the Yellow Toad wasn't lying when she told Rhaenys to return at her own peril.

I gotta say, the Yellow Toad gave me new respect for the Martells. And frankly I'm pretty satisfied that Rhaenys bit it in Dorne, given what happened. Serves her right.

I think an ambush is probably the likeliest scenario, but something like poison is also intriguing, if for no other reason than because I'd think Aegon would retaliate if Rhaenys was killed that openly.

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This further supports my prediction that Dorne will really suffer in the second dance of the dragons. Rhaenys died in Dorne, but Daenerys will thrive there.

Buuuut I'm also a little bit sad about Rhaenys. She was easily one of my favourite Targaryens.

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Perhaps poisoned weapons in an ambush then? Rhaenys wouldn't be stupid enough to accept anything edible from the Dornish.

Or she had Dornish consort who poisoned her - its stated that she liked to surround herself with guys and its rumored that she slept with a few of them as well. If Aegon heard that Rhaenys was killed while cheating on him then he might be too angry with her to want to take revenge.

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I think it could have been luck, possibly an arrow (poisoned?) that hit Meraxes in the eye by chance.

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Ok so I found out from the Bubacon notes that it was during Aegon's rule, not during the conquest.

I think Rhaenys tried to conquer Dorne again and she got killed, but that brings another question, would Aegon go for revenge, or was he afraid because they were able to kill a dragon

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