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Why Didn't Tyrion see right Through Shae?


MidnightAurora

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Tyrion is one of the few characters who can see right through people and see what people plan so he can counter it. Heck he is the only character who can recognize Varys even in disguise and he is good at see the whole picture of things. My question is does he really love Shae and hence cannot see she is using him or is there another reason why he clearly cannot see that Shae is no good? I do not like reading about him trying to do things for her and her being ungrateful and also Tyrion could be doing better things with his time.

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Tyrion is one of the few characters who can see right through people and see what people plan so he can counter it. Heck he is the only character who can recognize Varys even in disguise and he is good at see the whole picture of things...

Interesting that you say that when back in ACOK it is Shae who is the only person who sees through Varys - Tyrion is just mystified. It takes him a moment to recognise Varys in Tyrion II ASOS - and then only after Varys speaks.

I'd say all of Tyrion's cleverness is something that comes to light in his POV, when we see his perspective on teh events he is taking part in. Don't be seduced into thinking that that because Tyrion sees himself as being able to see through people and read them like a book that he really can.

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Interesting that you say that when back in ACOK it is Shae who is the only person who sees through Varys - Tyrion is just mystified. It takes him a moment to recognise Varys in Tyrion II ASOS - and then only after Varys speaks.

I'd say all of Tyrion's cleverness is something that comes to light in his POV, when we see his perspective on teh events he is taking part in. Don't be seduced into thinking that that because Tyrion sees himself as being able to see through people and read them like a book that he really can.

Can you provide example in ACOK where Shae recognizes Varys right away in disguise? A better choice of words is that Tyrion can find weaknesses or read people for things to use to his advantage/plans and counter them. An example is him reading Bronn and Bronn championing him and afterwards Bronn asked how he knew. tyrion admit he took a chance and goes into the elaborate story that Bronn hoped to win favor with Catelyn and asked into her service and realized she never would because Starks lookk for loyal, honorable men for their service. He also states Bronn killed his companion w/o cause. He did the same with Mord in order for Mord to deliver a message. Tyrion uses Lancel to his advantage after deducing he is sleeping with Cersei and threatens to tell Joff.

My question is though is why he can not see Shae is using him, and protects her and does all these things for her and still does not see her true character. i was just curious if she was meant to be his weakness and he really thinks he is in love with her and she returns the affections or something else. Even when married to Sansa he still does more to help her than he does Sansa...

He is not fooled by Joff and has no problem pointing out his true character and bitch slapping him which I also like. I am thinking he sees people's true characters except Shae and curious why he does not.

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Can you provide example in ACOK where Shae recognizes Varys right away in disguise?...

Yes Tyrion X ACOK.

All I can say is keep reading and when you are reading a POV you are reading that character interpretation of the world, which might be true, or might not be.

There are a couple of moments when he acknowledges that Shae is a prostitute and is probably just after his money but that is not what he wants to believe. He wants it to be a romance, he wants to create a certain scenario based on his experience with Tysha and have Shae play a role in it and for the most part Tyrion is very effective at deluding himself into thinking that it is a relationship based on mutual emotion rather than role play.

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I feel as though Tyrion has an overwhelming urge to want to be loved. Whether it's by women or his family or just by people in general. He's perhaps blinded by his memories of Tysha and in his mind believes she loved him. Maybe it's just like his situation with Shae, he's so blinded by any attention that might look even remotely like genuine feelings that he turns a blind eye to all the facts in front of him. It isn't until his trial that I think he truly sees/understands how alone he really is and that he is not as well liked as he thinks of himself, especially when it comes to Bronn, Varys, and Shae.

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Tyrion did see through her. He wanted her to love him, but he always kept repeating in his head "don't be a fool, she is a whore!". And that is what she was: she served Tyrion when it profited her, and went to his father when he was condemned. And before that, she sold herself to Cersei, accusing Tyrion falsely. Shae didn't think of betraying Tyrion until she saw him doomed. There was nothing Tyrion could have seen, besides the fact that she only wanted his money, and clearly dinn't love him.

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Tyrion's weakness is clearly the Brothels and their employees. Through his wealth and stature he has been able to take advantage of these establishments. Clearly he has been exposed to this lifestlye at a very early age thanks to Tywin. Perhaps there were even earlier insidents then what happened with Tysha. Either way this is the lifestyle Tyrion has grown accustomed to and for the most part he see's all women in negative light.

For the sole fact of the way that Shae was brought to him he knew that it would never be real he just didn't want to admit that to himself. Tyrion had been waiting for his revenge on Tywin for Tysha and the fact that Shae was there was just like Icing on the cake. Shae had grown to be a burden to Tyrion he was more worried about hiding her than being with her towards the end. He knew she was sleeping around, but the fact that she was in Tywins bed would be shocking to anyone.. (Plus I think Tywin has a special affection for Tyrions leavings..)

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I also get upset because he is so careful with not revealing he is visiting Shae and a few times lapses at that and he could have shone more if he did not spend so much time and effort with Shae. Alayaya and her mom kept his secret and even when Alayaya was captured by Cersei she still kept it. That said a lot for Alayaya's character and her mom and even though they have a brothel they still had merits and it showed a lot about Tyrion who could have spat in Cersei's face and said "Hey, you messed up I never touched her.." It also frustrating because a few people are genuinely kind to Tyrion and like him and still goes with the likes of Bronn and Shae and kind of puts his words to Sansa that he is loyal to those who ar eloyal to him seem like empty words. Mostly because so many people especially Tyrion's family are not loyal etc towards him and yet he remains loyal to him.

I think an earlier poster is correct and that Tyrion's weakness is the want to be loved and so he creates things in his head of what he wants and then feels sorry when he does not receive it or only seems to be loved by Jaime.

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The reason is simple, especially if you reflect on his past. He is not loved for who he is, he's deformed and shunned and he knows this. He understands that no women will love Tyrion for Tyrion (except for Tysha, but he was tricked into thinking she was a whore too). So he has to pay for affection and sex. Life is cruel and unfair.

The only mistake Tyrion made was by starting to trust Shae's love for him, it was a grave error.

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... Either way this is the lifestyle Tyrion has grown accustomed to and for the most part he see's all women in negative light.

He never gave me that impression: he respected Alayaya's and her mother's intelligence, he looked up to Lady Olenna and Lady Catelyn, he recognized Margaery's skills in Court, etc.

The only woman Tyrion has ever seen in a negative light was Cersei. Not Shae.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

His penis? No more than any other man act on it. What is the static for men thinking about sex?



As noted above, Tryion wants to be loved. He never knew his mother. Jaime was the only one of his family who treated him kindly. Tysha was his first love, and his family destroyed that.



We all want to be loved. To have someone who will be there for us when the s**t comes raining down. Someone to trust. I do not think it is unnatural that Tryion, despite his doubts, came to love Shae. Love is blind.



Further, Shae may have been in Tywin's pay. She may have been relaying information to him. Odd that Tywin doesn't make good on his promise to kill her if Tyrion brought her to court. And she testified against him so fully. And that may explain why Tywin took her into his bed. Isn't that a bit out of character for him? Taking Tyrion's leavings?



Furthur, Tyrion is not just any man, he is a little person. People call him awful names to his face. People have to look down to talk to him; so everyone looks down on him. I think he has held up pretty well.



Imagine a lifetimes of lifetime of having no kindness, being blamed for your mother's death, being reminded your first love was a paid whore, being called vile names and being the butt of jokes. Shae tells him she loves him, calls him her "giant" and listens to him. How could he not be taken in by Shae? She catered to everyone of his needs (almost as if she were coached).



Bronn never tells Tyrion where he found Shae. Isn't that interesting? Neither Bronn nor Shae have a POV.


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...Bronn never tells Tyrion where he found Shae. Isn't that interesting? Neither Bronn nor Shae have a POV.

er, from a knight in lannister service in Tywin's camp on the eve of the battle of the greenfork:

"I took her from a knight. The man was loath to give her up, but your name changed his thinking somewhat..."

"Splendid...I seem to recall saying find me a whore, not make me an enemy."

"The pretty ones were all claimed...I'll be pleased to take her back if you'd prefer a toothless drab"

Tyrion VIII AGOT

That's pretty specific.

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er, from a knight in lannister service in Tywin's camp on the eve of the battle of the greenfork:

Tyrion VIII AGOT

That's pretty specific.

Yes, that is what Bronn says. Specifically a knight in the Lannister service. We're never told who the knight was. Perhaps Tywin heard there was some sellsword casting about for a bed warmer for Tyrion.

Tywin knew about Shae from the beginning. He would have had access to her at the camp, and perhaps pay her to snuggle up to Tyrion. It would make sense. He needed someone to get word to him about Tyrion's intentions when he sent Tyrion to be the Hand. Which always struck me as odd. And Tywin told Tyrion not to take "the whore" to KL, knowing that is just what he would do.

This is just my opinion. Just conjecture. And more fun than L + R = ? or J = x + y

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  • 2 weeks later...

Why didn't you see right through Shae?

She was a fantastic actress, I'll give her that; plus she had Tywin to feed her all of Tyrion's idiosyncrasies and inner workings; I believe that Tyrion fell for Shae because she reminded him of Tysha, and he so desired to believe in the fact that somebody in this terrible world truely and unconditionally loved him. He wanted to relive that sweet, sweet fortnight of mairrage he experienced with Tysha to try and recapture the brief moment of true happiness he ever experienced. So he may have even ignored his better judgement and suspicions about Shae and decided to trust her completely; I would too, if my entire family loathed me and the city I previously governed and saved shunned me. Even a lying whore would be comforting then.

I can't tell you how satisfied I was when he strangled the wench--in Tywin's bed no less. :devil:

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