[TWoW Spoilers] Worldcon reading: second Tyrion chapter

[The Grey Wolf]

Sad as it is for me to say, I think Ser Grandfather's time is up

[The Grey Wolf]

Victarion could die too. That would cut out two POVs in one battle [though many of us would miss his humorous chapters, the monkeys in ADWD were hilarious].

[Bini]

What are the reasons for you guys to believe Selmy will be the one to die (assuming one of the three will die)? Not doubting, just want to understand.

Pointing out why he wouldn't die right now: he's the only one actually at Daenerys's side of the battle at the moment, he's already established as someone of importance at her side. It's quite unpredictable (and unlikely) that Tyrion or Victarion will rise to his status any time soon, and I think there's actual need of a POV at his position right now, at least until Daenerys returns.

As for Victarion, his "mission" in the story would be very well accomplished if he brought the horn, a fleet and a red priest to where the dragons and the queen are and then got killed by some of the dragons or something. Kind of a Quentyn 2.0, but not so unlikely to happen, I think.

[Newstar]

Barristan is the one respected, trusted, purely disinterested voice of restraint and good sense Dany has. Take that away, pair it with her newfound conviction that "Dragons plant no trees" and her newfound resolve for Fiyah and Blood, throw in some manipulative, extremely persuasive self-seeking assholes who want to get into her good graces for their own ends, and her path forward gets a lot more dangerous...and more interesting.

Also, Barristan dying will make it a lot easier for Tyrion to get an in with Dany, especially if Jorah is willing to vouch for him.

[oprahnoodlemantra]

It looks like the first half of TWOW will be tying up lose ends from ADWD like the battle at Winterfell, the Wall, Meereen, Jaime/Brienne/Stoneheart, and Cersei's trial. Then the second half will drive the story forward and set up for the finale.

This is going to be a very big book. Also, if we assume that GRRM is about halfway finished, I think it'll be out in 2014. GRRM has one appearance in October, and a trip to Australia in November, then nothing until the end of May. That's 6 months with nothing to do but write.

[The Crow's Third Eye]

It looks like the first half of TWOW will be tying up lose ends from ADWD like the battle at Winterfell, the Wall, Meereen, Jaime/Brienne/Stoneheart, and Cersei's trial. Then the second half will drive the story forward and set up for the finale.

This is going to be a very big book. Also, if we assume that GRRM is about halfway finished, I think it'll be out in 2014. GRRM has one appearance in October, and a trip to Australia in November, then nothing until the end of May. That's 6 months with nothing to do but write.

Don't forget holidays, they can stretch on and on if you don't control yourself, hehe.

I seem to remember that the book is estimated at 1500 manuscript pages? I could have that wrong though.

On another note, two scenes I really want to see are the Jorah and Dany reunion, and my fingers are crossed for a Jorah v Barristan moment because just.... wow

[Grey Words]

Thanks very much for the summary, the new Tyrion battle chapter is an excellent tease, so much going on. The image of the dragons flying around as free agents enjoying the flying-dead feast is quite ominous. I wonder when/if Victarion will have one of his lackeys blow the horn?

[The Grey Wolf]

Maybe after Tyrion II [AKA the chapter this thread is about]?

[The Grey Wolf]

Then after that Victarion chapter we could maybe have Barristan III, in which he hears the horn and tries to rally the men who began mistakenly to retreat only to be killed, followed by a Tyrion III and back to Victarion, who will meet Tyrion then. That's my theory anyway.

[The Imperator]

Barristan is the one respected, trusted, purely disinterested voice of restraint and good sense Dany has. Take that away, pair it with her newfound conviction that "Dragons plant no trees" and her newfound resolve for Fiyah and Blood, throw in some manipulative, extremely persuasive self-seeking assholes who want to get into her good graces for their own ends, and her path forward gets a lot more dangerous...and more interesting.

Also, Barristan dying will make it a lot easier for Tyrion to get an in with Dany, especially if Jorah is willing to vouch for him.

I agree with this. I never even liked Barristan anyway, so I don't even care if he dies, as long as his death means something to the story.

[Tim Thomason]

Well, if Barristan's got to die, then an epic 7-chapter Battle seems to be the way to go. He's a true knight, serving his Queen, dying on the battlefield.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

Can we relax? We don't know if anyone will die. Most of the speculation here seems to be based on what usually happens in novels and we know fully well that George doesn't always do what is expected.

[Lord Varys]

Barristan is the only one who can hold the Dany coalition together. If he dies in battle, things will deteriorate. I very much doubt that the Shavepate is going to care what Tyrion or Victarion want, and at least the latter is completely helpless when it comes to politics. Barristan is the only one who can hold the Meereenese, the freedmen, and Dany's new Westerosi allies together.

I doubt that GRRM has him made a POV just to get rid of him this soon. Not after he has made him Dany's Hand in ADwD.

[mushroomshirt]

I doubt that GRRM has him made a POV just to get rid of him this soon. Not after he has made him Dany's Hand in ADwD.

I don't think Barristan was originally intended as POV. I recall reading that he was only added as a POV as a way out of the Meereenese Knot in ADWD.

[Grey Words]

I've wondered if Barristan is GRRM's alter-ego, as they are the same age. Maybe as the token champion elder dude he'll prevail a bit longer and at least get the satisfaction of getting back to Westeros in a place of honor at Dany's side - some payback after he was run out of the country by Lannisters. I've always liked him as balance to all of that teenage energy.

[ReekLeek]

I don't know if you're serious or not, but I chuckled because I skipped those chapters on my first read.

Have you no shame?

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

Barristan is the only one who can hold the Dany coalition together. If he dies in battle, things will deteriorate. I very much doubt that the Shavepate is going to care what Tyrion or Victarion want, and at least the latter is completely helpless when it comes to politics. Barristan is the only one who can hold the Meereenese, the freedmen, and Dany's new Westerosi allies together.

I doubt that GRRM has him made a POV just to get rid of him this soon. Not after he has made him Dany's Hand in ADwD.

I don;t think it really makes a difference. He killed Arys and he only had one POV. But I agree, Barristan doesn't seem to be in imminent danger.

The slavers are doomed.

I don't think there will be an alliance between all those parties. I think this is the last Meereen chapter we are getting because in the next one, Victarion blows the dragonhorn and all hell breaks loose. We have Vicatrion thinking he will get the dragons, but we don;t know what Euron's plan is, where Moqorro's loyalties are, whether Brown Ben Plumm's Targaryen blood means anything, whether Tyrion being with Plumm changes things, or what role Marwyn will play.

[Lord Varys]

It all depends when the Volantenes and Daenerys herself arrive. Dany will bring 20,000-25,000 Dothraki. Jhaqo's khalasar has the most men of Drogo's old khalasar. If the Volantenes arrive before Dany it's not sure what will happen. The slave soldiers will only rebel, I think, if Daenerys is still known to be alive.

Selmy was not supposed to be a POV but now he is an established character, and I think there is still quite a lot of stuff his chapters can reveal about the past, so I doubt that he is a goner in the beginning of the next book.

Dragonbinder should actually cool things down. It's supposed to enslave the dragons, not enrage them. And even although Victarion may not become best friends with Tyrion and Barristan, his chapters already established that he is etermined to find and save/abduct Daenerys. So I doubt that he is going to try to leave with a dragon, should he become a dragonrider.

And the Dany loyalists - Barristan's men, the Windblown and Second Sons - should still outnumber the Ironborn after the battle. It may be that momentum carries the New Meereenese away, and Selmy is forced to carry the torch to Yunkai. To ensure that Dany's cause prevails they have to put an end to slavery once and for all. And the sellswords most certainly want their gold.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

Personally, I don't think Dany will ever return

It all depends when the Volantenes and Daenerys herself arrive. Dany will bring 20,000-25,000 Dothraki. Jhaqo's khalasar has the most men of Drogo's old khalasar. If the Volantenes arrive before Dany it's not sure what will happen. The slave soldiers will only rebel, I think, if Daenerys is still known to be alive.

Selmy was not supposed to be a POV but now he is an established character, and I think there is still quite a lot of stuff his chapters can reveal about the past, so I doubt that he is a goner in the beginning of the next book.

Dragonbinder should actually cool things down. It's supposed to enslave the dragons, not enrage them. And even although Victarion may not become best friends with Tyrion and Barristan, his chapters already established that he is etermined to find and save/abduct Daenerys. So I doubt that he is going to try to leave with a dragon, should he become a dragonrider.

And the Dany loyalists - Barristan's men, the Windblown and Second Sons - should still outnumber the Ironborn after the battle. It may be that momentum carries the New Meereenese away, and Selmy is forced to carry the torch to Yunkai. To ensure that Dany's cause prevails they have to put an end to slavery once and for all. And the sellswords most certainly want their gold.

Personally, I don't think Dany will ever return to Slaver's Bay. And I don't think Jhogo or whatever his name is will live long.

Also I wouldn't be so sure the dragonbinder will cool anything down. We really have no idea what it does, who it gives power to or how it affects the dragons. I am sure Euron suspected that Victarion would try to steal the horn and has a plan we're not aware of. Something horrible might happen when Vic's men blow the horn. But we know that the dragons liked Brown Ben Plumm who is now with a man who always dreamed of riding a dragon (Tyrion). And we know that Marwyn is arriving, a man who knows things no one else in Meereen seems to know.

I honestly think when Victarion's men blow the horn, something epic will happen. It will be the ultimate gamechanger.

[Ice and fire freak]

No sign of it happening yet. If he has, the horn clearly isn't working. But I'd say no horn sounding yet.

I'm sure in one of the victRion chapters it says simply owning the horn was the be all,after all blowing it isn't good for ones health.

Many thanks for posting this,what a battle,epic indeed!