How will History Remember Robb Stark - The King who Rose?

[Arya kiddin']

Tywin didn't win any in TWO5K's except the battle of Blackwater. But he was already considered a master military mind before TWO5K's so he must of won quite a few battles in Roberts Rebellion, but even so he had Ned and Robert weakening his enemies. Actually as I recall Tywin didn't commit to the war untill he was sure Robert was gonna win. Maybe during the Greyjoy Rebellion.

That is not true. He won no battles during Bob's rebellion. He just sat aloof in the Rock, much like Lysa did during WOT5K, and then after the Trident happened, threw in with the rebels. Even King's Landing was taken with treachery.

[Myrish Swamp Thing]

Tywin doesn't win battles. He wins wars.

[JamesTruwood]

How would Balon hold the north if he was alive? A lannister king isn;t letting him keep his crown, and thus his captured lands. In fact Tywin planned to only let Balon hold them for a winter if he could, then make him bend. A tyrell king is going to have every greyjoy head on a spike, a Stark King will do the same. ANd Robb had a way to attack from the north of Moat Cailin, so they lose the only battle they could relastically win. On the other hand, if Balon attacks he lannisters, Casterly Rock and lannisport fall and Tywin never gets the Tyrells since they only joined him to join the winning side. If Balon attacks the Reach the Tyrells have to deal with him and Stannis could win the Blackwater.

[Comnenus]

If you want to know how people, especially the uninformed masses will think of him in the future, look to how his contemporaries think of him. He is practically a legend in his own time. The way people think of him and talk of him already in ASOIAF shows he is taking on a mythic character. Melisandre, the champion of Stannis (Stannis who thinks of Robb as nothing but a traitor who he would have executed), thinks of him as "this fallen hero men had called the Young Wolf". Then there are the children that clearly idolise him Wylla and Lyanna Mormont. Or the young men led by Benfred Tallhart who call themselves the "Wild Hares".

Think of Jaime also, as he travels through the Riverlands and meets Jeyne Westerling. Does he think that Robb made a stupid political move in marrying her? No, he thinks of him in the mythic sense of how Jeyne was not beautiful enough to be "worth losing a kingdom over". As if Jeyne should be some Helen of Troy. As if there were no chance or possibility that Robb would have just lost anyway even with a nice Frey marriage.

If his reputation and people thoughts of him are taking on mythic edges now, give it a few centuries for the mass of people to forget any troublesome details (like how marrying Jeyne was an awful stupid political move, or how the North was partially occupied for a small period of time) and I don't doubt that you'll be left with a romantic hero throughout the 7 kingdoms. And from those few Tyrions out there, with some familiarity with the history, a figure who will perhaps receive some cavils.

[bloodofwinterfell]

If his reputation and people thoughts of him are taking on mythic edges now, give it a few centuries for the mass of people to forget any troublesome details (like how marrying Jeyne was an awful stupid political move, or how the North was partially occupied for a small period of time) and I don't doubt that you'll be left with a romantic hero throughout the 7 kingdoms. And from those few Tyrions out there, with some familiarity with the history, a figure who will perhaps receive some cavils.

Exactly. Others have mentioned that people will acknowledge he made stupid mistakes but I doubt that will happen over time; his mistakes will most likely be forgotten. It's kind of like how Sansa said the vipers refused to bite Baelor the Blessed because he was so holy when, in fact, he was bitten multiple times. Robb will likely be remembered as this great, honorable king/battle commander who died too young because of a horrible, treacherous murder.

[The Frosted King]

Cat clearly saw it as a bad idea and told Robb.

Balon is not an idiot, if a freak occurrence did not happen and he was still alive the Ironborn would still hold the North. The last time the Ironborn were in the North the Starks needed to team up with the Lannisters to kick them out. With the majority of its military forces South, Mount Cailin in enemy hands and some settlements already captured with no Iron Throne to back them the Starks could have lost the kingdom.

Be it the Starks, Baratheons or Lannisters, nobody was going to permanently cede control of half the realm to backwater pirates hated by everyone else.

All Balon did when he daggered Robb was critically weaken the main power destabilizing the unity of the seven kingdoms.

Which only hastens his own defeat.

Had he attacked the Lannisters he would've crippled the current ruling regime pushing for all seven.

Had he attacked the Tyrells, he would've hobbled the most powerful kingmaker, which stalls the unity of the south.

On their own, neither the Baratheons nor the Lannisters can even dream of taking the north, much less north and riverlands.

They all require the vast resources of the Reach to make it doable.

Balon cut off his nose to spite his face. And for that, his line thankfully is ended.

[Gurkhal]

Tywin doesn't win battles. He wins wars.

Excellent post.

Anyway I think that Robb will be far more remembered as for being the victim of the Red Wedding than for anything else. In the short run he will probably be remembered in the North as a tragic hero and in the south as a damn rebel. But in the long run I imagine that the Red Wedding will be the big thing his name is associated with.

[Mrs_Darcy]

Yes, but Dany got hers in the books, and Robb got only one positive. The other one - King who lost the North is unworthy and shall not be repeated in my presence :)

The only one, who called him "King who lost the North" was Roose Bolton in an attempt to downplay his betrayal.

[Arya kiddin']

The only one, who called him "King who lost the North" was Roose Bolton in an attempt to downplay his betrayal.

And he'll be duly paid for that. THE NORTH REMEMBERS!!!!

[WeddinGuest]

Think of Jaime also, as he travels through the Riverlands and meets Jeyne Westerling. Does he think that Robb made a stupid political move in marrying her? No, he thinks of him in the mythic sense of how Jeyne was not beautiful enough to be "worth losing a kingdom over". As if Jeyne should be some Helen of Troy. As if there were no chance or possibility that Robb would have just lost anyway even with a nice Frey marriage.

While I agree with most of what Comnenus wrote, that Robb is well on his way to becoming a legend in his own time, I think Jaime's reaction to meeting Jeyne in AFFC tells us more about what Jaime himself values at this time. Despite his cynicism about oaths and honor, Jaime really is a romantic at heart. He sees Robb as having given up a kingdom for love, because he'd act the same way. Indeed, you can argue that he already has, that he also put a kingdom on the line for his lover, even though fathering Cersei's kids is treason, arguably oathbreaking, etc. Probably yet another blot in his honor as KG, much as Robb breaking his promise to the Freys is a blot on HIS honor. So, I think he was expecting Jeyne to be, well, more like Cersei.

When he thinks, basically, "she's not all that", he's still using Cersei as his image of the ideal woman; I really felt like shaking Jaime and telling him, "Who are YOU to question Robb's taste in women? Huh?" And yet, he actually winds up being impressed by Jeyne's loyalty to Robb, tells Syb off even though she acted to benefit the Lannister cause, and winds up contrasting Jeyne favorably with Cersei, seeing her torn clothes and wondering if Cersei would do that to mourn him if he died.

However, it also seems that Westerosi history really isn't that kind to kings who are led astray by love and make mistakes that lead to thousands of deaths. Prince Duncan forsook his crown to marry Jenny of Oldstones (who was likely a commoner), and "Westeros paid the bride price in corpses"; we don't know exactly how this happened, but perhaps the family of whoever Duncan was engaged to marry took offense? And of course we have Rhaegar and Lyanna, whose love made the realm bleed, no one in-universe, even those who are Team Targ, seems to look at as romantic and wonderful.

Now, I can certainly see Robb/Jeyne being romanticized in singers' ballads and the like, but when it comes to history lessons young lords get from their maesters, I think what Robb did will be portrayed as a great example of what NOT to do.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

And he'll be duly paid for that. THE NORTH REMEMBERS!!!!

Not to mention Robb was on his way to reclaim the North when the RW happened, for Roose to bring up how Robb lost it is just his obvious attempt at deflection. Sure I robbed that bank but those people were going to blow through that money anyway!

[Mayura]

He will be remembered as "The Young Wolf", a young man who won every battle but lost the war because his youth lead him into making mistakes. He will also be remembered as the King who was murdered at his own wedding and whose direwolf's head was sewed on his body.

I think we have all of the ingredients for King Robb to become quite a romantic and dramatic figure whose story will frighten many little boys before bedtime ;)

[Erkan12]

Tywin doesn't win battles. He wins wars.

Yes with treachery and back stabbing.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

A cross between Young Dragon and Bloodraven . A great warrior who could change into a wolf .

[Roxy Carmichael]

I think he'll be viewed as that moron who went to war right before winter so that crops couldn't be harvested and put by; who lost the North first to the Greyjoys and then the Boltons because of his own "southron ambitions"; who couldn't keep a leash on his men or his mom; who allowed himself to be totally politically out maneuvered by Tywin Lannister.

Who left the North in a leaderless state of civil war, and thus horribly vulnerable to a terrible invasion.