Aussies LXI- Summer is coming!

[Gillio]

We love big brother (not the TV show)

[sh_wulff]

Off to the cricket thread to grind my favourite axe!

[Warg Arry]

So this video by Anonymous is beings shared all over my news feed. Anonymous message to Campbell Newman.

I had people give me their opinions. Nobody seems happy about this.

I was just wondering what my fellow Aussie boarders think.

[karaddin]

About the laws or the video from anonymous? I'm anti the laws, even if I were on board with expanding laws to target a group of criminals there would be too much potential for this to be used outside of that, and I'm not on board with that in the first place. Criminalisation of association is an awful thing I will never agree with.

[Stubby]

They don't seem happy about Campbell Newman's ridiculous attitude to long-established laws of association or with the involvement of Anonymous?

ETA: Ninja'd by karaddin...

[Warg Arry]

Sorry I should have been more clear. I was leaning more toward the feeling about the laws. Or even if it is as Anonymous is stating it is.

I'm currently trying to find specific information about the legislation. What I've found so far. Seems to be painting with broad strokes. While saying it's directed specifically.

I haven't been paying any attention to the news or political affairs. So I guess I was looking for people with a better understanding of the legislation. Or a more well rounded view than. "Yeah its all bad!"

Which you both already have actually.

[Stubby]

On the the Austlii database (just a web page), here it is in bill form (and yes that is the real name of the Act):

Vicious Lawless Association Disestablishment Bill 2013

On the QLD legislation site, it is in PDF Format.

Of course these are links to the raw legislation.

Margaret McMurdo, former QLD Appeal Court Judge, said this recently at a speech to the QLD Law Society Senior Counsellors Conference:

With those principles in mind, I commend the Queensland Law Society and its President, Ms Annette Bradfield, for publicly raising concerns about the recent Vicious Lawless Association Disestablishment Act which requires courts to impose mandatory cumulative sentences in specified circumstances which may extend well beyond the punishment of bikies. My 37 years' experience in the criminal justice system, whether as defence lawyer, prosecutor, trial judge or appeal judge, has convinced me that community interests and the interests of justice which, after all, coincide, are best served by giving judges the broadest possible range of sentencing options. This ensures the punishment fits the crime. The maintenance of the sentencing discretion is an essential part of a functional criminal justice system. It keeps the "justice" in the "system".

Of curse, the Campbell govt act removes that discretion. Essentially, if one is a member of a group that has been declared a 'criminal association' and (for example) steals a car, instead of a two year sentence that person will get a minimum of 15 years, with no appeals and no opportunity for a judge to take into account extenuating circumstances. Anyone who is not a member of a declared criminal organisation still gets the benefit of all pleas in mitigation etc.

[Gillio]

So Stubs, who gets to decide if a group is a declared "criminal association", like, say, a union, or a cycling group?

[Stubby]

In short, no-one.

This is the definition of "association" as defined in the Act (s 3):

association means any of the following—

(a) a corporation;

(b ) an unincorporated association;

(c ) a club or league;

(d) any other group of 3 or more persons by whatever name

called, whether associated formally or informally and

whether the group is legal or illegal.

If the offence is committed during the business of the association, it is 15 years for an ordinary member - do not pass go and do not collect $200 - and 25 years for an 'office bearer'.

By s 5, the prosecution says "you are a vicious lawless associate and this Act applies to you". Remarkably, the accused then has the onus of proving that they are not and that the association does not have - as one of its aims - the intention to break the law. The QLD govt is essentially saying that in addition to the actual offence, you will get at least 15 years on top of that sentence - with no possibility for parole (s 8(1)) - just for wearing a patch.

[Gillio]

so bye bye opposition parties, or anyone else the govt of the day doesn't like?

[Stubby]

so bye bye opposition parties, or anyone else the govt of the day doesn't like?

Not really, as the organisation has to have a character of lawlessness. But if it were not for the opposition's intervention on the parliamentary floor, their original wording would have made the accused's lawyer guilty of an offence for 'associating' with him/her.

[Ouroboros]

This law could very quickly be used to target protest groups however, particularly in regards to the G20 summit in Brisbane and the new (but temporary) laws being put in place to curtail them.

[Stubby]

This law could very quickly be used to target protest groups however, particularly in regards to the G20 summit in Brisbane and the new (but temporary) laws being put in place to curtail them.

Yep. It certainly could. Especially if they state their intention to break the law by, say, rioting as an example.

[Warg Arry]

Honestly it reads like something written by Dolores Umbridge.

Although I admit I'm somewhat in favour of hasher punishments on these crimes

· section 208 (Unlawful sodomy) 15
· section 210 (Indecent treatment of children under 16) 16
· section 213 (Owner etc. permitting abuse of children on 17
premises) 18
· section 215 (Carnal knowledge with or of children under 19
16) 20
· section 216 (Abuse of persons with an impairment of 21
the mind) 22
· section 217 (Procuring young person etc. for carnal 23
knowledge) 24
· section 218 (Procuring sexual acts by coercion etc.) 25
Page 11

· section 219 (Taking child for immoral purposes) 1
· section 222 (Incest) 2
· section 228 (Obscene publications and exhibitions), if 3
section 228(2) or (3) applies 4
· section 228A (Involving child in making child 5
exploitation material) 6
· section 228B (Making child exploitation material) 7
· section 228C (Distributing child exploitation material) 8
· section 228D (Possessing child exploitation material) 9
· section 229B (Maintaining a sexual relationship with a 10
child) 11

[Stubby]

Highlighting the inclusion of those offences in the Act isolates another issue with the Act.

For the purposes of this Act, the person convicted of one of those offences doesn't get the harsher penalty for that offence, the offender gets the harsher penalty for being in a (as defined) association.

The process detracts from the serious nature of those offences.

[Warg Arry]

Well that's upsetting.

[sh_wulff]

I quit work today- job hunting begins -again!

[Warg Arry]

Are you ok? Hope a good job comes your way soon.

[andrew_]

I quit work today- job hunting begins -again!

I just got out of the job hunt after roughly 6 months of applying and going to various interviews and even starting a couple of jobs that a soon realized were not what they seemed (those lasted less than a couple of weeks, one of them last roughly 6 hours :D ).

The key is to be persistent and not let a rejections get you down. I was rejected dozens of times before I landed this job, which is literally perfect for me. Something will show up eventually, it may take a week or it may take months, but it'll show itself sooner or later :)

[sh_wulff]

It won't be a problem to find somewhere to work, however, we were short staffed for the last 3 months, i covere d for them, then one quit. The manager couldn't manage a meat raffle in a lions den to save their lives when they are actually there.

Then one of my clolleagues quit, I had a narrow miss in on the road on the way home and thought why should I continue to work here when they want me to work extra days and have too little work on the days I am there. So I tendered my resignation.

I was only a contractor anyway- there was little enough loyalty and support from them. So I know what I want now- and although there will b money worries for a while I feel I'll mull thru somehow.

Thank you all for the kind thoughts