Horza Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Whoa, whoa, whoa - let's not get crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillio Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Heh I thought we'd done that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Speaking of which, the SA Senate race is poo-flinging crazy: Xenophon outpolling Labor, SA Right Godfather Don Farrell on the verge of losing*, Climate Sceptics (maybe) getting up on Green preferences...* it would have been Penny Wong if he hadn't surrendered top billing, and oh, the bitter tears of the SA Right. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arya_underfoot Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Wow! Senate preferencing reform needs to be high on the agenda for the new government. The Senate is absolutely crucial to prevent excesses like Campbell Newman is currently getting away with in qld. But electing people who get less than 1% of the vote is just moronic. There really should be a minimum % above a candidate must poll before they're considered for a Senate post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brook Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I'm hoping if this mess of a senate does anything it will drive home why the system needs reforming.The worst of it is that we're going to be stuck with this mess for the next six years at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Horza - does switching from Labor to Liberal NBN plans require legislation to pass? If so, any chance that's going to have a harder time than carbon tax repeal? Palmer is pro fibre to the home right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warg Arry Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I'm only angry that Abbott won because his internet plan is stupid as fuck. I'm pretty sure Somalia will have faster internet than us by 2019. I'm 17 and will be able to live/work in the EU and the US. I love Australia but a man's gotta have fast internet...A woman needs fast internet too.I swear the moment KRudd announced his was conceding. My internet froze in fear.I'm hoping if this mess of a senate does anything it will drive home why the system needs reforming.The worst of it is that we're going to be stuck with this mess for the next six years at least.We can only dream. The way Australians are voting. We are clearly screaming for reform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Horza - does switching from Labor to Liberal NBN plans require legislation to pass? Nope. The legislation was required for the facilitation of the network through structural separation of Telstra and amendments to competition law - the plan itself is an arrangement between Telstra and NBNco, and that can change pretty soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh_wulff Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 I'm hoping if this mess of a senate does anything it will drive home why the system needs reforming.The worst of it is that we're going to be stuck with this mess for the next six years at least.Pray for a double dissolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warg Arry Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Nope. The legislation was required for the facilitation of the network through structural separation of Telstra and amendments to competition law - the plan itself is an arrangement between Telstra and NBNco, and that can change pretty soon.What are our options? It's important that this gets done right. There are clear flaws in the plan. How do we let him know it's important to get this right, the first time.Complaining around the net (Which I admit I've done a bit of) just feels like shouting into the wind. It's not going to change a damn thing.There must be some kind of pro-active approach we can take. To get heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Nope. The legislation was required for the facilitation of the network through structural separation of Telstra and amendments to competition law - the plan itself is an arrangement between Telstra and NBNco, and that can change pretty soon.That's what I feared. As much as I'd like to see a double dissolution in a year or two I don't think the wedge issue is there that can deliver it with this Senate. Carbon tax repeal would do it, but the Senate he's got will pass it I think unfortunately. NBN might be enough if it required legislation, but doesn't. Only other one I can see is PPL, he may have trouble passing that? The question then is if he will go to a DD over it, will the LNP actually be willing to follow for a policy they don't like, or will that force them to drop him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 That's what I feared. As much as I'd like to see a double dissolution in a year or two I don't think the wedge issue is there that can deliver it with this Senate. Carbon tax repeal would do it, but the Senate he's got will pass it I think unfortunately. NBN might be enough if it required legislation, but doesn't.Only other one I can see is PPL, he may have trouble passing that? The question then is if he will go to a DD over it, will the LNP actually be willing to follow for a policy they don't like, or will that force them to drop him?Given that we haven't seen a DD in forty years, and in the meantime a lot of major government legislation has been held up or heavily amended in the Senate I think it's safe to assume that the Carbon tax repeal is the only thing he'd go to the mattresses for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Business: "You've had your fun - now put democracy back in the box"Business leaders have called for politicians to avoid a double-dissolution election at all costs, raising fears that a hostile Senate will threaten the stability needed to restore investors’ confidence.Top chief executives unanimously welcomed the change to a more business-friendly government, but many warned that Tony Abbott faced an uphill battle abolishing the carbon and mining taxes and called for an end to the politicking of the past three years.“I would say to the Senate that the majority of people have voted in favour of the Coalition and you better have a damn good look at your own conscience if you vote again,” Business Council of Australia President Tony Shepherd told The Australian Financial Review.Mr Shepherd said he would support a double-dissolution election if that was the only way of abolishing the carbon and mining taxes but that was a worse-case scenario. “A double-dissolution is not good for anybody . . . but we can’t be stuck with dud policies.”His comments were echoed by other business leaders who warned a second election would be a disaster for confidence. Wesfarmers chief Richard Goyder said a complex Senate outcome would be a challenge.“It’s encouraging [that] the Coalition has a mandate to govern in its own right, hopefully that will be respected by others and can deliver more certainty in the political process and our engagement with it,” Mr Goyder said.Hey that's what Western Sydney was missing: more guns!He left the Liberals because of John Howard's crackdown on guns following the Port Arthur Massacre, describing it as "a disgraceful attack on law-abiding citizens."He also says it is an "objective fact" that the Sandy Hook school massacre in the United States could have been avoided if teachers had been armed.Mr Leyonhjelm says a new approach is needed to help tackle the spate of shootings in Sydney."What happens is that criminals don't know who's carrying a gun and they're very wary of using a gun themselves because they don't know who's going to shoot back at them," he said."In actual fact it's a massive deterrent. You don't make a safer society by taking the guns off the good guys and leaving the bad guys to have the guns."Oh, and some good analysis from Mike Steketee: Collectively, minor parties and independents recorded the biggest swing in the election – 5.8 per cent towards them on primary votes. That was despite a 3.3 percentage point fall in the Greens’ support to 8.4 per cent. Clive Palmer's party gained 5.6 per cent of the national vote in the House of Representatives, including 11.4 per cent in Queensland. That means that, as of Saturday night, he had won the support of 591,168 voters around the country. Not all them would have been convinced by some of his claims, ranging from accusing Rupert Murdoch's estranged wife Wendi Deng of spying for the Chinese government to the CIA funding Greenpeace and opinion polls being corrupt. Some may have been attracted to his policies such as restricting foreign investment. But given the opportunity and encouraged by a massive dose of Palmer-funded publicity, it seems they were mostly saying they would rather vote for anyone other than the major parties. All up, 21 per cent of voters chose a candidate representing other than Labor or the Coalition. This continues the long-term gradual but relentless trend away from the major parties. The electorate never has had so much information provided to it and it never has been less impressed with the main choices on offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Given that we haven't seen a DD in forty years, and in the meantime a lot of major government legislation has been held up or heavily amended in the Senate I think it's safe to assume that the Carbon tax repeal is the only thing he'd go to the mattresses for.Guess I've been hoping his action would follow through on his rhetoric, but he's just full of shit so it's a stupid hope. As to the second post I find it amazingly frustrating that people seem to forget the Australian public know the Senate exists. If you were really being handed a mandate to do what you want, you would be given the Senate too - the election was more about wanting Labor out than LNP in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Guess I've been hoping his action would follow through on his rhetoric, but he's just full of shit so it's a stupid hope.This has always been the guessing game with Abbott: crazy or talking shit? I think the following months are going to tilt it towards the latter. Though there will be plenty of crazy left over.As to the second post I find it amazingly frustrating that people seem to forget the Australian public know the Senate exists. If you were really being handed a mandate to do what you want, you would be given the Senate too - the election was more about wanting Labor out than LNP in.Heh, this isn't about the public, just the business community setting down its markers. They think they'll have an easier time of it with their guy in charge, but I wonder if some of them might end up pining for the good old Rudd-Gillard days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Well referring to a mandate implies the public support it all, of course business don't actually care but that line of argument pisses me off when there is no such mandate. Particularly since Tony himself started on about this shit before he even won the election. I don't know whether I should really be hoping to find he really is that crazy rather than talking shit, but I can't help myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brook Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Given how many different people he's going to have to negotiate with to get anything passed I can't help but think Tony's first move should be to send Milne an apology card, he may end up needing her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 My new least favourite word - mandate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Best dig in, you'll be hearing a lot more of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubby Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Abbott wil adopt what every Liberal govt adopts as their 'mandate':"We have been elected with a mandate for 'change', so we can do whatever the fuck we want". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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