Sci-2 Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I'm not convinced those are Ciphrang heads or that he went Outside. All part of the Aspect Emporer mystique.What do you think they are? Being able to create and animate fake heads would imply Kellhus has an incredible amount of power over science and magic.Speaking of the Ciphrang heads, anyone have any theories as to why their mouths started movingAren't the heads always moving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 the answer is plain on the face of the encyclopedia entry: the Miracle of Two Becomes Three, or 2+2=5, the image of a jackboot stomping a human face, forever.Nice, solo. Quite plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTinyKittens Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I think the heads are always moving. Could be wrong but I would swear we see them move on several occasions (during the Councils and perhaps either during a Proyas POV or in the tent with the Nonman ambassadors). If they aren't Ciphrang, what are they? I don't think we get a firm enough description of them to pin down a possible substitute. Although it's worth noting that Ciphrang don't seem to have a particularly well-defined structure, IIRC, since one was able to briefly pass as a human in the camp in TTT. Unless I am remembering that scene wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Buck Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 I must've just missed the other references to them moving.The scene you're referencing Wrath was a bit strange to me. I believe the guard sees something vaguely humanoid but "shadow-like" until it gets closer. It seemed like Bakker was almost trying to imply an optical illusion.Regardless though, Ciphrang definitely come in different shapes and sizes. Zioz is described pretty differently from the one that Iyokus summons in TWP (Zioz seems to have a glowing, spider-like head with many eyes, the latter is described as elephantine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 As far as we know, no one has ever seen a dead Ciphrang head, so it could be anything. That it moves still is not evidence that it is a real dead Ciphrang head because we have no frigging clue (nor does anyone else) whether dead Ciphrang heads do that. Maybe it's some sort of Wathi Head or something else entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 They're not going to be fake Ciphrang heads, or any sort of fraud. Of course they are genuine Ciphrang headsBakker isn't insane, he's not going to destroy suspension of disbelief like that.Personally I have zero trouble believing that Kellhus obtained them in the manner as we are told ( or was it merely implied, I don't recall ), namely by going to the Outside. I see no reason to question that he has that ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 They're not going to be fake Ciphrang heads, or any sort of fraud.Of course they are genuine Ciphrang headsBakker isn't insane, he's not going to destroy suspension of disbelief like that.Personally I have zero trouble believing that Kellhus obtained them in the manner as we are told ( or was it merely implied, I don't recall ), namely by going to the Outside. I see no reason to question that he has that ability.So you don't think the series ends with Kellhus walking through the Outside to our Earth and getting a job with Industrial Light and Magic?And possibly sidelining as a magician who hides a cow heart up his butt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Out of curiousity, anyone have any insight to offer as to why Bakker's publishers do so little media work for him? I mean, kudos for Penguin Canada paying for table layout on rollout days (referencing Chapters in Canada) but not much else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 They're not going to be fake Ciphrang heads, or any sort of fraud. Of course they are genuine Ciphrang headsBakker isn't insane, he's not going to destroy suspension of disbelief like that.Personally I have zero trouble believing that Kellhus obtained them in the manner as we are told ( or was it merely implied, I don't recall ), namely by going to the Outside. I see no reason to question that he has that ability. I don't follow this. What suspension of disbelief would be destroyed if we learned that Kel continues to lie as he did all through the first series?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 No real insight from my part on that Madness. I'd just echo the question.I guess, look at the blog. Hardly something that is going to draw in new readers by the truckloads.More something that would deter them.Overlook is small fries, I don't see any of their other books getting much attention on the net or in bookstores I visit. So they don't do much and may not be able to. I can say though that they have always responded to questions I asked about the books. Orbit UK seems to be treating Bakker the same as their many other midlist authors. He's one of dozens there.I guess for all 3 it applies that none of them have shown that they are going out of their way to promote him, that is clear. But I think this has largely to do with the sales that has been generated, and I would speculate they just do the same with authors of a similar sales calibre to Bakker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 There's also opportunity cost.His publishers may simply find that there are other books with a higher probability of catching on. As much as I enjoy the Earwa novels, they do seem like a niche product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Why would a publisher want to spend their money on promoting someone who has no interest in promoting themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 If I were Bakker, I'd try to get myself into one of those short-story collections that GRRM edits, shit like that would be big. GRRM likes his books, so it wouldn't be impossible for him, would it? And GRRM is huge these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Why would a publisher want to spend their money on promoting someone who has no interest in promoting themselves?There is a weird truth to this. Even his twitter and Facebook come off snide, and I don't think that's his intention. I actually think his blog is interesting, and trying to keep up has made me smarter, but it's definitely not a way to draw in fantasy fans.If I were Bakker, I'd try to get myself into one of those short-story collections that GRRM edits, shit like that would be big. GRRM likes his books, so it wouldn't be impossible for him, would it? And GRRM is huge these days.I see Bakker doing horror. I'm sort of curious what a Bakker story that was focused on making people creeped out would be like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 he need to go gardner dozois on y'all's ass. propose an anthology that he can edit and introduce, solicit submissions. call it The New Post-Apocalyptic-Postmodern-Secondary-World-Tentacle-Porn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 If I were Bakker, I'd try to get myself into one of those short-story collections that GRRM edits, shit like that would be big. GRRM likes his books, so it wouldn't be impossible for him, would it? And GRRM is huge these days.Unfortunately, for all that he talks about genre being where it's at for reaching people, he really does not participate in the genre culture at all. No cons for him, no anthologies, no blogging, he really makes no effort to participate in our communities, almost as though he holds himself above it all and deigns to write for us for our own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 No cons for him, no anthologies, no blogging, he really makes no effort to participate in our communities, almost as though he holds himself above it all and deigns to write for us for our own good.Nah, I think he just isn't into the communities. Plus I get the feeling things would actually be easier for him [writing wise] if he does finish his dissertation and gets a full time prof gig, even at a community college.That said, he's just not a self-promoter and in today's industry unless your name is Cormac McCarthy you probably do need to pimp yourself. Heck even Steven King has an online presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koudoulis Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 the ciphrang heads are not dead and the connection between them and their bodies in the outside keep Kehllus connected also. its like roaming...i call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 And possibly sidelining as a magician who hides a cow heart up his butt?Moo-God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 the ciphrang heads are not dead and the connection between them and their bodies in the outside keep Kehllus connected also. its like roaming...i call it.Ah, that's an interesting point. The heads might be an anchor to the Outside.Moo-God?Heh. I do wonder how people on Earth would react if a coffin in a whirlwind ensured every birth was a stillborn. But then, given our weaponry, we'd make short work of the No-God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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