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R+L=J v 61


Stubby

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:agree: Ya don't get me wrong I'd much rather prefer Jon to be KITN for personal reasons

As much as I would like that, I feel Winterfell is for the Stark's, not the Targaryen's. And as much as Jon is a Stark, his surname is still Targaryen. That is the only reason I dont want him as KitN (unless he is a regent for Bran/Rickon).

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As much as I would like that, I feel Winterfell is for the Stark's, not the Targaryen's. And as much as Jon is a Stark, his surname is still Targaryen. That is the only reason I dont want him as KitN (unless he is a regent for Bran/Rickon).

My take is, Jon will choose to identify primarily as a Stark. That's actually a large part of why I'd prefer him to take over Robb's kingdom and not the Iron Throne.

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My take is, Jon will choose to identify primarily as a Stark. That's actually a large part of why I'd prefer him to take over Robb's kingdom and not the Iron Throne.

:agree: I agree, and I think he would choose to do so anyways, regardless what throne he takes (if he does). This is more a OCD thing on my part, because by birth he is a Targ and not a Stark.

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As much as I would like that, I feel Winterfell is for the Stark's, not the Targaryen's. And as much as Jon is a Stark, his surname is still Targaryen. That is the only reason I dont want him as KitN (unless he is a regent for Bran/Rickon).

Ya buddy trust me, I'm the last person on this forum that you wanna argue this with, because I'm actually under the belief that despite R+L=LJ being true and being revealed to the general public, there still won't be enough valid documented evidence to prove the marriage therefore, Jon will still be considered the same bastard that he's always been, only he'll have a different father but still the same amount of Stark blood he would've had as Ned Stark's son. Therefore IMO Jon will still end up being legitimized as a legal Stark through Robb's will, and will therefore, be a legal Stark(Lyanna) with Targ blood(Rhaegar). I'm sure you have doubts about this that I've already answered a thousand times over in previous threads that I really don't feel like re explaining so if you have doubts that you want to ask me about, then please just look at the previous threads lol.

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My take is, Jon will choose to identify primarily as a Stark. That's actually a large part of why I'd prefer him to take over Robb's kingdom and not the Iron Throne.

Sorry for pitching in arbitrarily, but for Jon to be King, which one is the assumption here? That the NW will be abolished as it is no longer needed, or Jon will be released from his oaths "as his watch has ended . . . ." and will find that his duty to the realm is better fulfilled as KitN?

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Ya buddy trust me, I'm the last person on this forum that you wanna argue this with, because I'm actually under the belief that despite R+L=LJ being true and being revealed to the general public, there still won't be enough valid documented evidence to prove the marriage therefore, Jon will still be considered the same bastard that he's always been, only he'll have a different father but still the same amount of Stark blood he would've had as Ned Stark's son. Therefore IMO Jon will still end up being legitimized as a legal Stark through Robb's will, and will be a Legal Stark with Targ blood. I'm sure you have doubts about this that I've already answered a thousand times over in previous threads that I really don't feel like re explaining so if you have doubts that you want to ask me about, then please just look at the previous threads lol.

Wow...you totally missed what I was saying. Jeez lol.

I dont want him to have Winterfell, be KitN, or a Stark for personal reasons, not what is likely to happen in the story. Like I said above, it is more of an OCD thing on my part.

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Sorry for pitching in arbitrarily, but for Jon to be King, which one is the assumption here? That the NW will be abolished as it is no longer needed, or Jon will be released from his oaths "as his watch has ended . . . ." and will find that his duty to the realm is better fulfilled as KitN?

I'm thinking more along the lines of the NW becoming obsolete or Jon taking a more pragmatic "fuck the police" route and doing things his way.

In the same vein as GRRM being able to prove R+L=J if he needs to, he can equally get Jon out of the Watch if he needs to.

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I'm thinking more along the lines of the NW becoming obsolete or Jon taking a more pragmatic "fuck the police" route and doing things his way.

In the same vein as GRRM being able to prove R+L=J if he needs to, he can equally get Jon out of the Watch if he needs to.

Hmm. Food for more thought. Thanks. :D

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I'm thinking more along the lines of the NW becoming obsolete or Jon taking a more pragmatic "fuck the police" route and doing things his way.

Because I dont think Jon is as dedicated to the NW as he is dedicated to fighting the Others, I think he will do exactly that. If he has to get involved in the wars/claim winterfell/etc to get the men he needs to stop the Others...I think he will do that..regardless of his oath.

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Wow...you totally missed what I was saying. Jeez lol.

I dont want him to have Winterfell, be KitN, or a Stark for personal reasons, not what is likely to happen in the story. Like I said above, it is more of an OCD thing on my part.

Oh no, I wasn't attacking you, it's just I know the arguments against Jon being KITN and I just didn't really don't feel like explaining it again in case you wanted me to, whatever your personal beliefs are is your thing, I don't have a problem with it lol. No ill will whatsoever lol.

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Oh no, I wasn't attacking you, it's just I know the arguments against Jon being KITN I just didn't really feel like explaining it again in case you wanted me to, whatever your personal beliefs are is your thing, I don't have a problem with it lol. No ill will whatsoever lol.

Gotcha :cheers:

But, just for the record, I do agree Jon could very well end up taking the Stark name and being KitN. It was just more of a personal issue lol.

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Gotcha :cheers:

But, just for the record, I do agree Jon could very well end up taking the Stark name and being KitN. It was just more of a personal issue lol.

Ya I totally get the personal reasons and I respect that completely. I like the fact that you're acknowledging the difference between personal wishes and what the actual story will likely end up being. Which is something me and numerous other members on this thread try to stress to ppl, who don't seem to understand the difference. You're clearly not one of those ppl and I applaud you because of that lol.

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My take is, Jon will choose to identify primarily as a Stark. That's actually a large part of why I'd prefer him to take over Robb's kingdom and not the Iron Throne.

I made a thread about that some time ago about whether Jon can choose to take the Stark name after his parentage is revealed.
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Ya buddy trust me, I'm the last person on this forum that you wanna argue this with, because I'm actually under the belief that despite R+L=LJ being true and being revealed to the general public, there still won't be enough valid documented evidence to prove the marriage therefore, Jon will still be considered the same bastard that he's always been, only he'll have a different father but still the same amount of Stark blood he would've had as Ned Stark's son. Therefore IMO Jon will still end up being legitimized as a legal Stark through Robb's will, and will therefore, be a legal Stark(Lyanna) with Targ blood(Rhaegar). I'm sure you have doubts about this that I've already answered a thousand times over in previous threads that I really don't feel like re explaining so if you have doubts that you want to ask me about, then please just look at the previous threads lol.

Well I kind of feel like if it is true about Jon and the North and Winterfell, I think Jon would probably present the issue to his family. I don't think he would be like it's mine so there. It is not really in tune with what who he is.

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:agree: Ya don't get me wrong I'd much rather prefer Jon to be KITN for personal reasons, but I don't have a problem with him ending up on the IT. either The funny thing for me, is that every time I think about Jon being king of anything, I always seem to have that flashback of the long and heated debate you and I had a while back about Jon becoming a legal Stark through Robb's will, in which you eventually convinced me was the most logical path. Just wondering do you still have that opinion? Because I certainly do lol.

If Jon ends up as king I think that will be the route he takes. I can't rule out the Targaryen option, but I think it will be easier for him to press his claim as Jon Stark, KitN, and go from there. I also think it would be poetic for the Starks to end up as the royal family.

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Ya buddy trust me, I'm the last person on this forum that you wanna argue this with, because I'm actually under the belief that despite R+L=LJ being true and being revealed to the general public, there still won't be enough valid documented evidence to prove the marriage therefore, Jon will still be considered the same bastard that he's always been, only he'll have a different father but still the same amount of Stark blood he would've had as Ned Stark's son. Therefore IMO Jon will still end up being legitimized as a legal Stark through Robb's will, and will therefore, be a legal Stark(Lyanna) with Targ blood(Rhaegar). I'm sure you have doubts about this that I've already answered a thousand times over in previous threads that I really don't feel like re explaining so if you have doubts that you want to ask me about, then please just look at the previous threads lol.

:agree: Most of us must have noticed by now that GRRM is ironic.

Jon's making a life in the wild north, where birth rights are all but nothing, and a bastard can be king. His strenght won't depend on who his parents are, less so if and how they got married, and his material heritage resides in his raising or his warging power, not in a name.

And still, Jon's parentage is among the chief mysteries of the series.

Sorry for pitching in arbitrarily, but for Jon to be King, which one is the assumption here? That the NW will be abolished as it is no longer needed, or Jon will be released from his oaths "as his watch has ended . . . ." and will find that his duty to the realm is better fulfilled as KitN?

If he's got the power, he'll be over any law. He can style himself as he pleases.

Look at the Targs, as a token. They could marry between sieblings, roast lords,...whatever they pleased while they had dragons.

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