R+L=J v 61

[finger]

Logic vs literature again.

Who can ask Medea to be logical? She's passion.

How can you stint R+L love with sorry considerations of fulfilling prophecies? It'd ruin the story.

They were guilty of ilegal love, but it was above anything else.

Because love is the bane of honour and duty, but only the fruit of love can defeat evil.

That's Jon's part in the story, nothing of that stupid throne.

[qixoticneurotic]

something that i was thinking... jon is still a bastard regardless of him being neds or lyanna's. so why do people think he is the rightful king?

Lyanna was abducted and bedded under the laws of the first men shes rhaegars wife.

[Ygrain]

Lyanna was abducted and bedded under the laws of the first men shes rhaegars wife.

True enough - the fact that she didn't cut his throat confirms that :P

[finger]

Lyanna was abducted and bedded under the laws of the first men shes rhaegars wife.

True enough - the fact that she didn't cut his throat confirms that :P

Hey, I claim the copyright. That's my wildling theory :lol:

[Ygrain]

Came over this hilarious post (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/96362-jon-snows-parentage-heir/page__st__80#entry4932228):

They should re-release AGOT with a note preceding Ned's dream: "The following scene was written for purely expositional purposes." Couldn't hurt. Even is said scene apparently boils down to this:

Ned: Rhaeger's dead.

KG: We know.

Ned: Aerys, too. And the kids.

KG: Yeah.

Ned: So, about that whole kneeling for Robert thing--

KG: --Nope.

Ned: Got it. In that case, you know your new king is protected only by a knight, right?

KG: He's a good guy. We're KG, though. We belong here.

Ned: Strictly under the orders of a corpse?

KG: Apparently. Also, your sister's on her deathbed, but we'll die keeping you from her.

Ned: Why?

KG: We are complete and utter morons.

Ned: Lets get to it then. I guess.

[Alia of the knife]

Came over this hilarious post (http://asoiaf.wester...80#entry4932228):

They should re-release AGOT with a note preceding Ned's dream: "The following scene was written for purely expositional purposes." Couldn't hurt. Even is said scene apparently boils down to this:

Ned: Rhaeger's dead.

KG: We know.

Ned: Aerys, too. And the kids.

KG: Yeah.

Ned: So, about that whole kneeling for Robert thing--

KG: --Nope.

Ned: Got it. In that case, you know your new king is protected only by a knight, right?

KG: He's a good guy. We're KG, though. We belong here.

Ned: Strictly under the orders of a corpse?

KG: Apparently. Also, your sister's on her deathbed, but we'll die keeping you from her.

Ned: Why?

KG: We are complete and utter morons.

Ned: Lets get to it then. I guess.

:laugh:

[Felipefom]

Came over this hilarious post (http://asoiaf.wester...80#entry4932228):

They should re-release AGOT with a note preceding Ned's dream: "The following scene was written for purely expositional purposes." Couldn't hurt. Even is said scene apparently boils down to this:

Ned: Rhaeger's dead.

KG: We know.

Ned: Aerys, too. And the kids.

KG: Yeah.

Ned: So, about that whole kneeling for Robert thing--

KG: --Nope.

Ned: Got it. In that case, you know your new king is protected only by a knight, right?

KG: He's a good guy. We're KG, though. We belong here.

Ned: Strictly under the orders of a corpse?

KG: Apparently. Also, your sister's on her deathbed, but we'll die keeping you from her.

Ned: Why?

KG: We are complete and utter morons.

Ned: Lets get to it then. I guess.

Seems plausible.

[finger]

Came over this hilarious post (http://asoiaf.wester...80#entry4932228):

They should re-release AGOT with a note preceding Ned's dream: "The following scene was written for purely expositional purposes." Couldn't hurt. Even is said scene apparently boils down to this:

Ned: Rhaeger's dead.

KG: We know.

Ned: Aerys, too. And the kids.

KG: Yeah.

Ned: So, about that whole kneeling for Robert thing--

KG: --Nope.

Ned: Got it. In that case, you know your new king is protected only by a knight, right?

KG: He's a good guy. We're KG, though. We belong here.

Ned: Strictly under the orders of a corpse?

KG: Apparently. Also, your sister's on her deathbed, but we'll die keeping you from her.

Ned: Why?

KG: We are complete and utter morons.

Ned: Lets get to it then. I guess.

Read in a parchment sent via Black Wings:

I trade two King's Guards for a midwife.

Lyanna Stark

Tower of Joy

[WhiteOwl18]

Came over this hilarious post (http://asoiaf.wester...80#entry4932228):

They should re-release AGOT with a note preceding Ned's dream: "The following scene was written for purely expositional purposes." Couldn't hurt. Even is said scene apparently boils down to this:

Ned: Rhaeger's dead.

KG: We know.

Ned: Aerys, too. And the kids.

KG: Yeah.

Ned: So, about that whole kneeling for Robert thing--

KG: --Nope.

Ned: Got it. In that case, you know your new king is protected only by a knight, right?

KG: He's a good guy. We're KG, though. We belong here.

Ned: Strictly under the orders of a corpse?

KG: Apparently. Also, your sister's on her deathbed, but we'll die keeping you from her.

Ned: Why?

KG: We are complete and utter morons.

Ned: Lets get to it then. I guess.

Sure, that is exactly what happened... :lol: :P

[WhiteOwl18]

I find this one funny too (from http://asoiaf.wester...60#entry4398235):

Ned: "'I looked for you on the Trident." Why weren't you with the Crown Prince?

Paraphrasing the KG: That's right, not there, three other KG were with Rhaegar at the Trident.

"When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were."

KG: Unfortunately, not with the Aerys. Jaime was there and wouldn't you think based on his vows to protect the king he would've handle that situation differently.

"'I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,' Ned told them, "and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.'" You're not even part of a Targaryen forces stationed at Storm's End?

KG: Nope, we had to stay here in Dorne.

"Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I though you might have sailed with him."

KG: Bill Darry is good guy and all but he's not a KG and we swore a vow to protect the king and we're not leaving here.

Ned: Isn't Viserys the king now after the deaths of Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon?

KG: Well...no.

[Alia of the knife]

Be the first to write a review of your stay at the Tower of Joy in the fabulous Mountains of Dorne:

"It was just awful!

There were cobwebs in my room, (which I had to share by the way). I had to hike at least three miles to the nearest lake to bathe, so by the time I got back, I was dirty again.

(You-know-who got the best rooms and food). <_<

The one servant was rude. She was way over whelmed with cooking, cleaning, and birthing.

There was absolutely nothing to do but worry, and just how out of the way was this place when we were found by "Happy Hightower?"

Zero nightlife, which I can assure you is NOT Dorne.

The "Sword of the Morning," is more like the dull blade of the afternoon, because he's not up until twelve.

And there are fleas in my pallet.

I would not recommend this place to anyone. If you want a better service and rooms, try the Sunspear Arms. I would rather die than be here.- "Batman."

(Oh look, more guests- great).............

[Ygrain]

Be the first to write a review of your stay at the Tower of Joy in the fabulous Mountains of Dorne:

"It was just awful!

There were cobwebs in my room, (which I had to share by the way). I had to hike at least three miles to the nearest lake to bathe, so by the time I got back, I was dirty again.

(You-know-who got the best rooms and food). <_<

The one servant was rude. She was way over whelmed with cooking, cleaning, and birthing.

There was absolutely nothing to do but worry, and just how out of the way was this place when we were found by "Happy Hightower?"

Zero nightlife, which I can assure you is NOT Dorne.

The "Sword of the Morning," is more like the dull blade of the afternoon, because he's not up until twelve.

And there are fleas in my pallet.

I would not recommend this place to anyone. If you want a better service and rooms, try the Sunspear Arms. I would rather die than be here.- "Batman."

(Oh look, more guests- great).............

ROFLMAO!

- But, Alia... this is getting close to, you know the forbidden genre :eek:

[Alia of the knife]

ROFLMAO!

- But, Alia... this is getting close to, you know the forbidden genre :eek:

:laugh:

You know, I was inspired to write that because we're on vacation this week and I was looking at rooms, (they always look better online), and I read some of the reviews, and they were HILARIOUS.

One guy even took a picture of the shower drain......

[MtnLion]

If I were you, I wouldn't pretend to know more than Master Aemon. He has no problem with Daenerys being the Prince that Never Comes to Fulfill the Promise. :P

If I were you, I would not pretend to know more that the Ghost of Highheart, who said the Prince that was Promised would come from the line of Aerys and Rhaella. CotF do have male and female, and recognize them.

[Mladen]

This certainly at some point has been brought out to your attention, but I would like if the good people of R+L=J could answer me.

I was doing my regular 413th reread of Sansa POV chapters, and in her first, I found something that could point what Ned did with Jon:

Sansa could never understand how two sisters, born only two years apart, could be so different. It would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard, like their half brother Jon. She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon’s mother had been common, or so people whispered. Once, when she was littler, Sansa had even asked Mother if perhaps there hadn’t been some mistake. Perhaps the grumkins had stolen her real sister. But Mother had only laughed and said no, Arya was her daughter and Sansa’s trueborn sister, blood of their blood. Sansa could not think why Mother would want to lie about it, so she supposed it had to be true.

As the quote tells us Sansa asked Catelyn whether Arya is a bastard, and Catelyn told her no. Sansa could not think why would Catelyn lie. Given that Jon has been mentioned in the same chapter, and the parallel between him and Arya is enhanced, does this childish affair points us in what Ned did (proclaiming someone who isn't a bastard, illegitimate) and for Sansa's unknown reason(protection)? Maybe it's nothing, but I would like to see what you think...

Came over this hilarious post (http://asoiaf.wester...80#entry4932228):

They should re-release AGOT with a note preceding Ned's dream: "The following scene was written for purely expositional purposes." Couldn't hurt. Even is said scene apparently boils down to this:

Ned: Rhaeger's dead.

KG: We know.

Ned: Aerys, too. And the kids.

KG: Yeah.

Ned: So, about that whole kneeling for Robert thing--

KG: --Nope.

Ned: Got it. In that case, you know your new king is protected only by a knight, right?

KG: He's a good guy. We're KG, though. We belong here.

Ned: Strictly under the orders of a corpse?

KG: Apparently. Also, your sister's on her deathbed, but we'll die keeping you from her.

Ned: Why?

KG: We are complete and utter morons.

Ned: Lets get to it then. I guess.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: . Read it this morning, hilarious...

[Yeade]

You guys... :laugh:

Just a short comment on the Prince "That" Was Promised. My understanding from Maester Aemon's ramblings in AFFC is that this title's translated from ancient Valyrian and the original figure in the prophecy is a dragon. While "who" is more appropriate, grammatically speaking, for a person, "that" is entirely fitting with the ambiguity of dragons being animals, even if here they're a symbolic representation of House Targaryen and its members.

On another note, I've long been a supporter of prophecy that is malleable in expression due to the impact of free will on events. Since Robert's Rebellion need not have ended as it did, with the Targaryens deposed and in exile, Rhaegar may have been correct in thinking he and later Aegon were at one point AAR/PTWP, under the assumption that whoever this is will be humanity's leader and champion in the war for the dawn. Likewise, I think it's possible dutiful, melancholy Rhaegar came to love Lyanna unto madness, and it's this unexpected emotional revelation that led him to reinterpret the prophecy yet again. An inherently deterministic universe of true prophecy is not necessarily incompatible with character agency, IMO, provided that choices shape the final form of the future, which is only vaguely foretold. LOTR, Star Wars, and Harry Potter all handle prophecy this way, and I don't really expect ASOIAF to be different because, from a literary perspective, doing otherwise would either invalidate the use of foreshadowing or undercut any reader investment in the fates of the characters, critical to maintaining dramatic suspense.

[Ygrain]

And Jon’s mother had been common, or so people whispered.

Awesome how one finds a piece of information in something entirely else, and I've been overlooking this time and again. This is a confirmation of what I have been arguing - that despite the gossip about Ned's trip to Starfall, the folk of Winterfell do NOT connect Jon to Starfall or Ashara.

[Alia of the knife]

You guys... :laugh:

Just a short comment on the Prince "That" Was Promised. My understanding from Maester Aemon's ramblings in AFFC is that this title's translated from ancient Valyrian and the original figure in the prophecy is a dragon. While "who" is more appropriate, grammatically speaking, for a person, "that" is entirely fitting with the ambiguity of dragons being animals, even if here they're a symbolic representation of House Targaryen and its members.

On another note, I've long been a supporter of prophecy that is malleable in expression due to the impact of free will on events. Since Robert's Rebellion need not have ended as it did, with the Targaryens deposed and in exile, Rhaegar may have been correct in thinking he and later Aegon were at one point AAR/PTWP, under the assumption that whoever this is will be humanity's leader and champion in the war for the dawn. Likewise, I think it's possible dutiful, melancholy Rhaegar came to love Lyanna unto madness, and it's this unexpected emotional revelation that led him to reinterpret the prophecy yet again. An inherently deterministic universe of true prophecy is not necessarily incompatible with character agency, IMO, provided that choices shape the final form of the future, which is only vaguely foretold. LOTR, Star Wars, and Harry Potter all handle prophecy this way, and I don't really expect ASOIAF to be different because, from a literary perspective, doing otherwise would either invalidate the use of foreshadowing or undercut any reader investment in the fates of the characters, critical to maintaining dramatic suspense.

A beautifully rendered analysis of prophetic themes and the heart in conflict with itself. :bowdown:

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Came over this hilarious post (http://asoiaf.wester...80#entry4932228):

They should re-release AGOT with a note preceding Ned's dream: "The following scene was written for purely expositional purposes." Couldn't hurt. Even is said scene apparently boils down to this:

Ned: Rhaeger's dead.

KG: We know.

Ned: Aerys, too. And the kids.

KG: Yeah.

Ned: So, about that whole kneeling for Robert thing--

KG: --Nope.

Ned: Got it. In that case, you know your new king is protected only by a knight, right?

KG: He's a good guy. We're KG, though. We belong here.

Ned: Strictly under the orders of a corpse?

KG: Apparently. Also, your sister's on her deathbed, but we'll die keeping you from her.

Ned: Why?

KG: We are complete and utter morons.

Ned: Lets get to it then. I guess.

:lol: Right on the money and succinct. Genius. Keep it on hand for, you know... :P

Be the first to write a review of your stay at the Tower of Joy in the fabulous Mountains of Dorne:

"It was just awful!

There were cobwebs in my room, (which I had to share by the way). I had to hike at least three miles to the nearest lake to bathe, so by the time I got back, I was dirty again.

(You-know-who got the best rooms and food). <_<

The one servant was rude. She was way over whelmed with cooking, cleaning, and birthing.

There was absolutely nothing to do but worry, and just how out of the way was this place when we were found by "Happy Hightower?"

Zero nightlife, which I can assure you is NOT Dorne.

The "Sword of the Morning," is more like the dull blade of the afternoon, because he's not up until twelve.

And there are fleas in my pallet.

I would not recommend this place to anyone. If you want a better service and rooms, try the Sunspear Arms. I would rather die than be here.- "Batman."

(Oh look, more guests- great).............

:rofl: :lmao:

:laugh:

You know, I was inspired to write that because we're on vacation this week and I was looking at rooms, (they always look better online), and I read some of the reviews, and they were HILARIOUS.

One guy even took a picture of the shower drain......

EWWW!! :ack:

Since we're trending to the humorous, I was at a concert this weekend and had an epiphany of what Rhaegar would look like if he had lived into his 60s.

Alia, I thought of you :lol: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aU13_31HCn0/UeSXNVhvV3I/AAAAAAAABSw/-fmpXmXKQ44/s640/Gregg+Allman+2013.jpg

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

You guys... :laugh:

Just a short comment on the Prince "That" Was Promised. My understanding from Maester Aemon's ramblings in AFFC is that this title's translated from ancient Valyrian and the original figure in the prophecy is a dragon. While "who" is more appropriate, grammatically speaking, for a person, "that" is entirely fitting with the ambiguity of dragons being animals, even if here they're a symbolic representation of House Targaryen and its members.

On another note, I've long been a supporter of prophecy that is malleable in expression due to the impact of free will on events. Since Robert's Rebellion need not have ended as it did, with the Targaryens deposed and in exile, Rhaegar may have been correct in thinking he and later Aegon were at one point AAR/PTWP, under the assumption that whoever this is will be humanity's leader and champion in the war for the dawn. Likewise, I think it's possible dutiful, melancholy Rhaegar came to love Lyanna unto madness, and it's this unexpected emotional revelation that led him to reinterpret the prophecy yet again. An inherently deterministic universe of true prophecy is not necessarily incompatible with character agency, IMO, provided that choices shape the final form of the future, which is only vaguely foretold. LOTR, Star Wars, and Harry Potter all handle prophecy this way, and I don't really expect ASOIAF to be different because, from a literary perspective, doing otherwise would either invalidate the use of foreshadowing or undercut any reader investment in the fates of the characters, critical to maintaining dramatic suspense.

Well said :)