Crackpot Alert: Might Lem Be Richard Lonmouth?

[Ser Ilyn's Tongue]

This is a really neat theory - like you say Apple, everyone from the KotLT story ends up being a fairly significant character, except Lonmouth. It would be satisfying if he turns out to be someone that we have already encountered, and I can't see the Patchface thing. If this is true, it will be exciting to see what happens with Lem's story.

[Datepalm]

Hm. Ok, i'll have what you're having. Lemoncloak even sounds somewhat like Lonmouth, (and looks somewhat like it as a word on a page.) Sign me up.

[WinterKing]

Excellent work!

[King of Winters]

It doesn't sound crackpot to me. I like it.

If Lem is Richard Lonmouth, then could he go over to (F)Aegon when he gets the news of Rhaegar's son landing?

[Datepalm]

Seeing the BWB crack over (F)Aegon might be interesting.

[Mladen]

Wow, while crackpot on some other threads go into one direction, this thread goes in another... And I like this one better :)

Congrats to all that has come up with this. Lady Gwyn, Apple, Dr.P, amazing job...

I especially like about possibility of Richard's connection with Lyanna and possibility he and Rhaegar discovered Lyanna was indeed KotLT. Also, when you add that washing the cloak line by HH, you get quite interesting theory... Well done indeed. You redefined crackpot theory oin the best possible way.

[Slender Aimry Hill]

I am somewhat reminded of the theory, before Harry Potter 6 emerged, that the Half-Blood Prince would be a minor, mentioned back story character called Caradoc Dearborn. Elegant, but I'd be extremely surprised if it were spot on, or if Lonmouth even emerged. Some loose ends staying loose fleshes out the saga...

[Jay Stark]

I love this theory, sign me up on this. Many thanks to Dr,Apple and Gwyn on putting up all these possible pieces of proof. I really hope this theory is true, and will be paying close attention to good ol' lemmy when he shows up in the future books

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Wow! I go away for a few hours and my favorite crackpot goes electric! Dare I say it has moved a bit outside of crackpotville? :D

Anyways, nice work everyone, especially Apple for getting this out there and DP for all the added research.

I think I read the whole thread and didn't see this quote (the one that first made me say "hmmm...") Sorry if I missed it-- I started out reading on my phone :P

"I cannot eat a silver stag, nor ride one. A skin of wine for my dreams, a for my news a kiss from the great oaf in the yellow cloak." The little woman cackled. "Aye, a sloppy kiss, a bit of tongue. It has been too long, too long. His mouth will taste of lemons, and mine of bones. I am too old."

Like the scene with Brienne and Lady Stoneheart, where choice/choose is repeated multiple times, kiss/kisses is repeated several times here.

I'd be interested to see if there is a similar scene with skulls.

One thing that always bugged me about this is the point. I mean, every good crackpot needs a purpose right? While it seems clear that GRRM does nothing accidentally, I just didn't see how Lem's identity would move the narrative forward at all until yesterday in another thread where someone just happened to mention the attendees at Harrenhal, and what they might know. Then- BAM! Lem is significant because he might know much and more about Rhaegar, the Tourney, Lyanna and possible even R+L (I'll reserve judgement on the J part) Everyone upthread has added some great ideas as to how this could play out.I have to dash again, but color me in awe of the power of the forum brain :cheers:

[Ingelheim]

Nice theory. I buy this.

[Ygrain]

One thing that always bugged me about this is the point. I mean, every good crackpot needs a purpose right? While it seems clear that GRRM does nothing accidentally, I just didn't see how Lem's identity would move the narrative forward at all until yesterday in another thread where someone just happened to mention the attendees at Harrenhal, and what they might know. Then- BAM! Lem is significant because he might know much and more about Rhaegar, the Tourney, Lyanna and possible even R+L (I'll reserve judgement on the J part) Everyone upthread has added some great ideas as to how this could play out.I have to dash again, but color me in awe of the power of the forum brain :cheers:

Ya know, we're all waiting for Mr Obvious HR to dawn the truth on us - wouldn't it be a superspiel by GRRM if this was one big red herring and the BAM moment was delivered by someone entirely else?

Oh, and BTW, not sure if this has been mentioned in the thread but we have incoming another person who would have known Lonmouth - Jaime.

Plus, another point why Lonmouth would be important: he might have been Rhaegar's contact in KL and possibly also Ned's source for the information of ToJ. While he may have been best buddies with Robert at HH, the murder of Rhaegar's children would definitely make a difference.

[Boleyn]

This is a great theory and not crackpot at all.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Ya know, we're all waiting for Mr Obvious HR to dawn the truth on us - wouldn't it be a superspiel by GRRM if this was one big red herring and the BAM moment was delivered by someone entirely else?

Oh, and BTW, not sure if this has been mentioned in the thread but we have incoming another person who would have known Lonmouth - Jaime.

Plus, another point why Lonmouth would be important: he might have been Rhaegar's contact in KL and possibly also Ned's source for the information of ToJ. While he may have been best buddies with Robert at HH, the murder of Rhaegar's children would definitely make a difference.

:agree:

And fantastic observation about Jaime. This ties in with the GNC, Riverlands edition. Those two are almost certain to come in contact early in TWoW. Interesting how once you look beneath the surface of this one, it keeps getting more complex. Wheels within wheels ;)

[Frey family reunion]

Whether or not Lem is Lonmouth, there has been some imagery associated with him normally reserved for characters that seem to have a major impact on the story:

At one of Thoros' fire gazing in ASOS, Thoros looks into the flames and mutters Riverrun then we turn to:

Lem paced back and forth, coughing, a long shadow matching him stride for stride,

The fact that this image occurs while Thoros gazes into his precognitive flames may indicate that Lem may be a significant character later on.

I would assume the Hound would have been too young to have run into Lonmouth during a tourey, since his older brother was (17, 18?) at the time of the Greyjoy rebellion (correction at the sacking of King's Landing), so there is no reason to believe he would recognize him.

Now if Lem had gone to Riverrun, I assume he might have been recognized there if he was in fact Lonmouth, which perhaps attributed to his pacing.

[Veltigar]

This theory still feels crackpottish to me. The evidence is flimsy at best. I’ll remain a skeptic, perhaps if some more evidence is provided I’ll reconsider but this theory is certainly not in same league as the HR+AD=MR-theory, which had both a ton of evidence backing it up and a very clear impact on the story if it came to be.

[Isildur's Mane]

I first saw this mentioned on another thread earlier today. I had to google who Lonmouth was, but other than that I think it is a great theory with things that are adding up.

I hope it is true, I think it would be great if it is.

[Datepalm]

The main thing it has going for me is that it gives Lem some background. He's a (by ASOIAF standards) fairly major character with seemingly neither any backstory nor a particular function in the story. He shows up again and again, glowering and saying meaningful things, but is very thinly fleshed out, while at the same time having several features - his cynicism, that yellow freaking cloak - that make him stand out and would seem to require "explanation", so to speak. If he was just another character who was around to show the impact of the war, I feel like he'd be a little more everymannish.

[Alia of the knife]

Seconded :)

Lady G's not-so-cracked crackpottery has ignited a chain reaction with unpredictable consequence lol

As I said, chain reaction :bowdown:

Also agree on Lady Gwynhyfvars incredible catches. (Love her references and connections to the Arthurian legends as well).

And I especially like the connections between past players and present ones, i.e., Arya/Lyanna.........

If her theory is true, he could also potentially help identify Jon, having known Rhaegar and understanding the subtleties of resemblance.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I quite like this. You're right about it being odd how Lem has no backstory.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Here's a quote:

“You must be a lackwit, boy,” said Lem. “We’re outlaws. Lowborn scum, most of us, excepting his lordship. Don’t think it’ll be like Tom’s fool songs neither. You won’t be stealing no kisses from a princess, nor riding in no tourneys in stolen armor. You join us, you’ll end with your neck in a noose, or your head mounted up above some castle gate.”

Well, shit, I'm sold.