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redtree

Why Did House Tully Join Rebellion, Really ?

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This been bugging my mind lately, why would house Tully join Rebellion ? The Targs didn't hurt them directly and Cat wasn't even married to Brandon yet, why can't they just choose new husband for Cat ? It seems like a stupid and rash decision to make since if they defeated they'd lose their liege status. Also very ungrateful, wasn't it Targaryen who made them lord of trident ? Before Aegon they weren't even kings but this is how they repaid the Targs. Stark,Baratheon and Arryn have great reason, but why them ?

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They had a chance to ally themselves directly with two of the most powerful houses in the 7 Kingdoms, and a third indirectly (Baratheon). They were caught in the line of fire with the Starks to the north and Arryns to the east. The west was of uncertain loyalty. They were in a precarious position. Furthermore, the King butchered his daughter's fiance. The way the Mad King was, he could have asked for Hoster's head to for being friends to traitors.

Edited for grammar

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They had a chance to ally themselves directly with two the most powerful houses in the 7 Kingdoms, and a third indirectly (Baratheon). They were caught in the line of fire with the Starks to the north and Arryns to the east. The west was of uncertain loyalty. They were in a precarious position. Furthermore, the King butchered her daughter's fiance. The way the Mad King was, they could have asked for Hoster's head to for being friends to traitors.

This

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Connections... They were already connected with Starks. Hoster was also great politician, and he must have sensed that the Targaryens are done. Also, with Brandon, died Mallister heir, so that also included Riverlands...

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It would be an important alliance. Tully and Stark. Plus, what Aerys did was atrocious. Whether there were other "unknown variables" I'm not sure but those were good reasons on their own. Reasons that weren't shared by the houses that did not join the rebellion. The fact that the rebellion succeeded at all is a sign of how unstable the Targaryen reign had become.

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Brandon was a hot headed idiot but he didn't deserve what happened to him and neither did Brandon. But Aerys, being the paranoid little freak he was, could have decided to call for Hoster's head as well.

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Cat was betrothed to Brandon before the rebellion wasn't she? Then he went off to Kings landing and got killed so she married Ned and then the rebellion really started.

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Hoster likely suspected that Aerys was out to get him. Hoster had visited King's Landing to fix the match between Jaime and Lysa. Aerys must have known. However, Aerys named Jaime to the Kingsguard. This must have set alarm bells ringing for Hoster even though it was just Cersei's mischief. This explains why Tullys didn't visit the tourney of Harrenhal. Later on, Rhaegar kidnaps Lyanna that looks like another Targaryen move to block the southron ambitions. Then Brandon, Arryn, Mallister, Ned and Robert happened. Brandon was Cat's bethroted so this definitely looks like an attack on house Tully. Rebellion starts, Lysa isn't a virgin. Hoster plays hardball gets Lysa married to Jon. He gets two great marriages for the rebellion he was going to fight regardless.

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Chance at upward mobility?

Fear for their lives as Aerys even asked for Roberts head?

I think it was a combination of the two.

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Cat was betrothed to Brandon before the rebellion wasn't she? Then he went off to Kings landing and got killed so she married Ned and then the rebellion really started.

Yes, Brandon was on his way to marry her when he heard of Lyanna and left for King's Landing. But she didn't marry Ned until after Arryn had raised their banners in Rebellion and refused to give up Ned and Robert. That marriage and Lysa's marriage to Jon Arryn is what cemented Tully's alliance for the rebellion, which happened about two months or so after Arryn declared.

As for his motives, I agree with many who claim there was a conspiracy in place before the rebellion even to remove the Targaryens (or at least Aerys) from power before with the Tourney of Harrenhal being a convenient excuse to gather many great lords (although the Tullys weren't mentioned as being in attendance which doesn't mean they for sure weren't there). Aerys murdering Brandon and his companions (which include some sons of lesser Lords and the heir to the Vale) was the 'straw that broke the camel's back' and even though there is no one event we can point to that says "this is where Aerys wronged Hoster Tully" there certainly seems like there was a hostile feeling between many of the Lords and their king. Plus, if Aerys would demand the head of a friend of the brother of the man who threatened the crowned prince, why not demand something of said man's betrothed or her father.

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Probably many reasons, as have been stated already. But wasn't it clearly announced in the books that Hoster got the best possible match for his "soiled" daughter, just when he agreed to take part in the rebellion?

I know a young girl like Lysa could disagree with my "best possible match", though.

That wouldn't have been the only reason, naturally. But was it really so hard a decision, with all the power of North, Vale and Stormlands already joined together in rebellion, and with Robert as their leader?

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Hoster was ambitious and pragmatic, he knew the rebels had a very good chance of success with him on board and joined them at the price of two top marriages. He also probably saw Brandon as almost family since bethrothals are taken pretty seriously in Westeros which was another reason to turn against Aerys.

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Probably many reasons, as have been stated already. But wasn't it clearly announced in the books that Hoster got the best possible match for his "soiled" daughter, just when he agreed to take part in the rebellion?

It was. Storm, Catelyn I:

"Lysa was the price Jon Arryn had to pay for the swords and spears of House Tully."

Jon Arryn needed a fertile wife to further the line, and Lord Hoster needed to marry off Lysa. A match made in heaven. :rolleyes:

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Hoster was ambitious and pragmatic, he knew the rebels had a very good chance of success with him on board and joined them at the price of two top marriages. He also probably saw Brandon as almost family since bethrothals are taken pretty seriously in Westeros which was another reason to turn against Aerys.

This.

In addition, he might have been appalled by Aerys' random executions and maybe feared Cat would be next (if Brandon's brother was wanted by Aerys, his fiancee could also be)

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Also if Hoster had remained loyal to the throne then no matter how the rebellion ended, the riverlands were f*cked since there was a Stark army coming down from the North and an Arynn army coming from the East.

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Aerys mucks up the Lysa-Jaime match, also the Catelyn-Brandon match, to the East, Arryns in rebellion, to the North, Starks in rebellion and to the West, Lannisters distant from Aerys. Add the death of the Mallister heir and Aerys paranoia, and Hoster judges it's time to take-out the trash.

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Aerys mucks up the Lysa-Jaime match, also the Catelyn-Brandon match, to the East, Arryns in rebellion, to the North, Starks in rebellion and to the West, Lannisters distant from Aerys. Add the death of the Mallister heir and Aerys paranoia, and Hoster judges it's time to take-out the trash.

Now I imagine Hoster Tully saying that line ("It's time to take out the trash") as he dons sunglasses while overlooking the Red Fork. Cue the minstrels.

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By marriage they were obliged to help

Ned Stark married Catelyn Tully

Jon Arryn married Lysa Tully

this was a deal to make House Tully an allied

and well, the Mad King was going to far

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