Fill in the Gaping Plot Hole

[Shrave]

Q: How on earth did the wildlings fire arrows 200 meters into the air at the Battle of Castle Black?

A: Simple; there was a strong updraft at the time!

All it takes is a whispered word from one of them, and Littlefinger is toast.

So in short, I find Littlefinger unrealistic, and his skill and intelligence is vastly inflated by Martin's liberal doses of "schemer's plot armor".

It's like you guys read my mind. The TWO biggest plot holes were these two for me. In the books, arrows flying up to the top for sure. Then you watch the show, there's NO WAY even a ballista aimed upwards could get a projectile up there.

With the Littlefinger thing: 100% spot on. This guy is walking on thin ice. He has so many players playing for him that I'm quite surprised one of them didn't just say, "EFF IT!" I think the same goes with Varys. What's stopping Cersei, Tyrion, or any of the 1,000s of the Iron Throne contenders to say, "Hey, little bird, I'll give you 100 times more what Varys pays you to snitch. AND I'll pay for your travel to *insert safe place*." I mean, c'mon, did no one think of that?!

[Facebookless Man]

The whole dagger business makes no sense at all from beginning to end.

[Free Northman]

Imagine what Tywin would do if Tyrion told him it was due to Littlefinger's deliberate, bald faced lie that the Lannisters are now at war with the Starks.

Tywin would go into epic fury mode and Littlefinger would be toast. Heck, Tyrion would not even have to do it himself. Tywin would do it for him.

[not in the face]

There's something missing in the whole Tyrion/Littlefinger plotline.

I haven't read all the books for a while now, but I'm convinced that Tyrion figures out that Littlefinger is the one that lied to Catelyn about the dagger, thus framing Tyrion. And I'm pretty sure that he figures this out fairly early on, likely during his conversations with Catelyn in the Vale.

Yet he seems to forget all about this little bit of crucial information once he gets to King's Landing.

Question: What would happen to Tyrion - the son of a Great Lord - if he walked up to Littlefinger - a low birth Treasurer - and just stabbed him in the chest?

I reckon pretty much nothing. Maybe a scolding from his father. That's it.

And yet, Tyrion does NOTHING with the knowledge that Littlefinger tried to have him falsely imprisoned and potentially killed?

It always struck me as a fact conveniently ignored because the plot needed it to go away.

Said father does not like his son. Said father would have sent his son to the wall had he done that. Perfect way to keep him from inheriting the Rock for sure.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

This is too good, can i make this my signature?

Sure! :)

[Free Northman]

Said father does not like his son. Said father would have sent his son to the wall had he done that. Perfect way to keep him from inheriting the Rock for sure.

Stabbing Littlefinger in the chest in front of the court was an extreme example. Tyrion being as smart as he is would of course not have needed to resort to such a crude approach. But Bron offing Littlefinger in a dark alley, no one the wiser, with no connections to Tyrion? Easy as pie.

[juanml82]

Q: How does Benjen get the visit Winterfell when the King is there, even though he is no longer a Stark?

A: He makes his own rules

Benjen is still a Stark, and it makes sense Mormont would send a high ranking officer to meet the king and, hopefully, get resources from the Iron Throne

There's something missing in the whole Tyrion/Littlefinger plotline.

I haven't read all the books for a while now, but I'm convinced that Tyrion figures out that Littlefinger is the one that lied to Catelyn about the dagger, thus framing Tyrion. And I'm pretty sure that he figures this out fairly early on, likely during his conversations with Catelyn in the Vale.

Yet he seems to forget all about this little bit of crucial information once he gets to King's Landing.

Question: What would happen to Tyrion - the son of a Great Lord - if he walked up to Littlefinger - a low birth Treasurer - and just stabbed him in the chest?

I reckon pretty much nothing. Maybe a scolding from his father. That's it.

And yet, Tyrion does NOTHING with the knowledge that Littlefinger tried to have him falsely imprisoned and potentially killed?

It always struck me as a fact conveniently ignored because the plot needed it to go away.

Littlefinger, like Varys, has the Small Council deceived. They believe LF and Varys are the only ones who can do their respective jobs as well as they do. High Lords, who probably focused their education in warfare and not in economics, refer as LF as some sort of wizard. They don't understand how he gets the money.

It's all a deception, but as long as it's held, they won't act against them. Furthermore, neither Varys nor LF project any sort of thread against those with the power to kill them.

I do believe Tyrion wouldn't have hesitated to murder LF after the war. But he wasn't going to risk the realm finances during a war - kind of not changing horses in the middle of the river.

That he didn't tell Tywin about the dagger, though, is beyond belief.

Shouldn't the poster below answer the question?

Anyway, I never understood Tyrion's sudden prowess in battle. I suppose it was based on dumb luck or underestimation.

It's way too much. But let's keep in mind Tyrion was trained in arms.

Actually a traditional longbow could do 200 meters quite easily.

But upwards as well?

[TalalOfDorne]

About LF, Ive always felt he was the luckiest character in the book. Maybe even luckier than the Lannisters during TWOTFK.

[Mikkel]

About LF, Ive always felt he was the luckiest character in the book. Maybe even luckier than the Lannisters during TWOTFK.

Oh I dunno, the Lannisters are so lucky they don't need the gold mines, they can just play the lottery, Gladstone Gander style.

[Barty]

Another big plot hole is why the Crown Prince of the North is left with no security, especially in times of war?? Its not like WF is the safest place in the world considering the very same Prince was nearly assassinated/killed 3 times right in WF. The fall of WF is one of the weakest points in the books(IMO).

[jet199]

Furthermore, neither Varys nor LF project any sort of thread against those with the power to kill them.

I think this is probably the main reason. The great lords don't consider someone like Littlefinger to be a real threat. His low background protects him as much as it weakens him because people underestimate what he is capable of. At the beginning LF has no rich family, title, lands, he's not a fighter nor has he been known to attack his enemies just scheme a bit. I think Tyrion assumed that LF just pinned the attempt on Bran's life on a random person so didn't assume LF was a direct threat to him and LF appeared to have done it to protect Joffery so he couldn't really claim LF had betrayed the Lannisters.

[Consigliere]

Another big plot hole is why the Crown Prince of the North is left with no security, especially in times of war?? Its not like WF is the safest place in the world considering the very same Prince was nearly assassinated/killed 3 times right in WF. The fall of WF is one of the weakest points in the books(IMO).

:agree:

Also found it hard to believe that Winterfell, the seat and symbol of power in the North, could be taken by Theon and 20 men.

[Chaircat Meow]

Yea, the inexplicable survival of LF and Ser Rodrick's curious failure to leave the northern capital properly garrisoned are the two most egregious. However, the loss of WF, while stretching credulity quite a bit, isn't really a plot hole as such. There isn't anything left unexplained, Ser Rodrick just didn't think it would come under attack and took too many men.

[TheTowerOfJoy]

Yea, the inexplicable survival of LF and Ser Rodrick's curious failure to leave the northern capital properly garrisoned are the two most egregious. However, the loss of WF, while stretching credulity quite a bit, isn't really a plot hole as such. There isn't anything left unexplained, Ser Rodrick just didn't think it would come under attack and took too many men.

Exactly. Rodrik didn't seem like a very good strategist to me anyways. I think the Lord would have been the one to tell him not to take all the men, but in this case it was Bran... Who leaves a 11 year old in charge of the seat of power in the North?

[Chaircat Meow]

Exactly. Rodrik didn't seem like a very good strategist to me anyways. I think the Lord would have been the one to tell him not to take all the men, but in this case it was Bran... Who leaves a 11 year old in charge of the seat of power in the North?

I think Bran is eight at the time, in the books.

[Free Northman]

The fall of Winterfell is unrealistic either way you look at it.

It could be argued that Rodrik did not think it a credible threat that a sizeable force of Ironmen could reach Winterfell undetected hundreds of miles from the sea.

At the same time, the fact that a force of Ironmen could reach Winterfell undetected hundreds of miles from the sea IS a plothole.

Hence, the justification for Rodrik leaving Winterfell undermanned, is only a credible justification if Theon's stealthy journey overland is INcredible.

Which it is.

So either Winterfell is not as unreachable from the sea, in which case Rodrik would not have left it so undermanned, or it IS unreachable from the sea, in which case Theon should not have been able to reach it.

So the justification for Rodrik's actions creates a new paradox in itself. Either way, this doesn't make sense. It merely happened for plot convenience.

[TheTowerOfJoy]

I think Bran is eight at the time, in the books.

Even worse.

[TheTowerOfJoy]

The fall of Winterfell is unrealistic either way you look at it.

It could be argued that Rodrik did not think it a credible threat that a sizeable force of Ironmen could reach Winterfell undetected hundreds of miles from the sea.

At the same time, the fact that a force of Ironmen could reach Winterfell undetected hundreds of miles from the sea IS a plothole.

Hence, the justification for Rodrik leaving Winterfell undermanned, is only a credible justification if Theon's stealthy journey overland is INcredible.

Which it is.

So either Winterfell is not as unreachable from the sea, in which case Rodrik would not have left it so undermanned, or it IS unreachable from the sea, in which case Theon should not have been able to reach it.

So the justification for Rodrik's actions creates a new paradox in itself. Either way, this doesn't make sense. It merely happened for plot convenience.

1) Theon knows Winterfell and the surrounding area very well.

2) He had an extremely small force, not a huge one that would have been noticed.

3) Who was left to see him? Most of the armies have been taken south with Robb.

So, no, I don't think Theon being able to approach virtually undetected is a major plot hole.

[Muggle]

that jon snow only knows two things

1. oral pleasure on a girl

2. nothing

[Chaircat Meow]

Well ... not that I want to go to the wall defending the fall of WF, which I thought stretched things a bit too (as I said), but we have to remember Theon. Owing to him a very small ironborn force (as opposed to sizable) with knowledge of the local terrain and castle were able to achieve more than might ever have been expected.

Edit: O, I got ninjad.