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Battle of the ford: Robbs reaction.


Señor de la Tormenta

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Yes but that doesn't mean he fucked up in field. First he captured by Kingslayer, then (even Cat said he shouldn't) he attacked Lannisters again, he persuade Robb for sending the river lords their locations after that he gather river lords and attack Tywin. Robb and Blackfish didn't even know he has battle force because of that.

Blackfish has no reason for blaming his own nephew unless it is the truth.

He sure is a good person, cares the smallfolk but also he is incompetent.

I got a question for you. Did robb know tyrells were going to join lannisters??? Because if not, tywin army after several loses facing the tullys wouldnt be enought to avoid stannis taking KL. So Edmure actions normaly would lead to keep tywins 20k army traped between stannis and robbs with no chance to come back to westerlands and build up again his strenght. This plus the advantage of making bolton take harrenthal before stannis or a less likely winning tywin... I mean seriously, it was a damn good call by edmure. Robb didnt knew about tyrells either...
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I got a question for you. Did robb know tyrells were going to join lannisters??? Because if not, tywin army after several loses facing the tullys wouldnt be enought to avoid stannis taking KL. So Edmure actions normaly would lead to keep tywins 20k army traped between stannis and robbs with no chance to come back to westerlands and build up again his strenght. This plus the advantage of making bolton take harrenthal before stannis or a less likely winning tywin... I mean seriously, it was a damn good call by edmure. Robb didnt knew about tyrells either...

No he knew Stannis was going to attack KL, and this means death of Joffrey and Queen.

And if Tywin arrive there with his 15.000 or 10.000 men, still this saves the KL, Tyrell alliance finish the war, but Tywin could save KL easily since Stannis lost many of his forces because wild fire.

about tyrells ;

When you stopped Lord Tywin on the Red Fork,” said the Blackfish, you delayed him just long enough for riders out of Bitterbridge to reach him with word of what was happening to the east. Lord Tywin turned his host at once, joined up with Matthis Rowan and Randyll Tarly near the headwaters of the Blackwater, and made a forced march to Tumbler’s Falls, where he found Mace Tyrell and two of his sons waiting with a huge host and a fleet of barges. They floated down the river, disembarked half a day’s ride from the city, and took Stannis in the rear.

it seems they learned this Tyrells location too...

Also their plan was not only lure Tywin to westerlands, this ;

We were all horsed,” Ser Brynden said. “The Lannister host was mainly foot. We planned to run Lord Tywin a merry chase up and down the coast, then slip behind him to take up a strong defensive position athwart the gold road, at a place my scouts had found where the ground would have been greatly in our favor. If he had come at us there, he would have paid a grievous price. But if he did not attack, he would have been trapped in the west, a thousand leagues from where he needed to be. All the while we would have lived off his land, instead of him living off ours

and edmure accept his fault ;

Edmure looked ill. “I never meant ... never, Robb, you must let me make amends. I will lead the van in the next battle!”
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So what if Edmure accepts it? He was duped. He is everyman's fool. If he had had more stomach he would have told the king who lost the north where to go. He held Rivverrun, he stopped lord Tywin at the fords, he couldn't have known about the Tyrells and he gets to kowtow to the king who couldn't control his dick. Fuck that.

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Why did Stannis merely hold Storms End against the Tyrells, rather than proactively take the field against them when Robert raised his banners?

Why did Lord Blackwood when Jaime marched?

Why did Lord Mallister?

Why do all these other warriors get the point of holding a castle, but Edmure doesn't?

Better yet, why are people making it seem like Robb left the command on paper, scribbled in the Old Tongue when it clearly wasn't?

Robb left resources in play that might've prevented the RW from being pulled off, n Edmure took them n used them in an ultimately pointless fashion.

Edmure couldn't see that a horsed host could run rings around an army containing large amounts of foot?

Edmure couldn't see that the Lannisters having a defendable base in the middle of the riverlands that allows them to raid, loot and basically splinter the martial capabilities of the region is causing his side to lose the war, day by day?

Stannis marched to remove the Boltons from power in Winterfell, because as long as they sit there, they're a disruptive power and make it virtually impossible to consolidate his grip on the north.

Renly considered leaving Stannis to continue his march on the capital, but Tarly advised against it.

Read his reasons.

At this point, im convinced most people that blame Robb either dislike him, or flatout don't comprehend the many ways Martin has crafted his story.

Most things that happen are compared n contrasted, sometimes not directly, but if you read deeply, you'll see there's nothing new under the son in these books.

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So what if Edmure accepts it? He was duped. He is everyman's fool. If he had had more stomach he would have told the king who lost the north where to go. He held Rivverrun, he stopped lord Tywin at the fords, he couldn't have known about the Tyrells and he gets to kowtow to the king who couldn't control his dick. Fuck that.

:D Edmure accept this but you guys are not, i'm sorry for saying the truth.

Blackfish has no reason for blaming his own nephew and lying about it, since they didn't made the wedding propose Cat did.

Plus without Robb he was captive and his castle was sieging by Kingslayer, i think you forget that. Edmure's fault was begin long before and he continue that... Don't like Robb came there and being his king for no reason...

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No he knew Stannis was going to attack KL, and this means death of Joffrey and Queen.

And if Tywin arrive there with his 15.000 or 10.000 men, still this saves the KL, Tyrell alliance finish the war, but Tywin could save KL easily since Stannis lost many of his forces because wild fire.

about tyrells ;

it seems they learned this Tyrells location too...

Also their plan was not only lure Tywin to westerlands, this ;

and edmure accept his fault ;

Here is were we disagree. I dont think tywin would have defeated stannis without tyrells. His army was really beaten up by edmure and there were no more resources in KL to aid him. I think stannis would crush him, so edmure plan was not bad at all. Harrenthal its a plus. Nobody know at this point tyrells were going to get in...
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:D Edmure accept this but you guys are not, i'm sorry for saying the truth.

Blackfish has no reason for blaming his own nephew and lying about it, since they didn't made the wedding propose Cat did.

Plus without Robb he was captive and his castle was sieging by Kingslayer, i think you forget that. Edmure's fault was begin long before and he continue that... Don't like Robb came there and being his king for no reason...

If we are playing a guilt tournament, is Edmure the one who loses it all because of robbs stupidity with the freys.
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Why did Stannis merely hold Storms End against the Tyrells, rather than proactively take the field against them when Robert raised his banners?

Why did Lord Blackwood when Jaime marched?

Why did Lord Mallister?

Why do all these other warriors get the point of holding a castle, but Edmure doesn't?

Huh. Stannis had 500 men. Nothing he could do about the army of the Reach. Not the same situation at all.

Better yet, why are people making it seem like Robb left the command on paper, scribbled in the Old Tongue when it clearly wasn't?

dunno, i don't think they are.

Robb left resources in play that might've prevented the RW from being pulled off, n Edmure took them n used them in an ultimately pointless fashion.

Maybe, but without the BoBWB and the westerling marriage there was be reason to think the freys would be that disloyal.

Edmure couldn't see that a horsed host could run rings around an army containing large amounts of foot?

Edmure couldn't see that the Lannisters having a defendable base in the middle of the riverlands that allows them to raid, loot and basically splinter the martial capabilities of the region is causing his side to lose the war, day by day?

Hang on. Edmure did plan to take HH with Bolton's men and he used the twins garrison to help. He could see that.

The odds are on Tywin to beat Robb in the west, not the other way round (although Edmure never used this explanation, so moot point, he really should have)

I'm not saying Edmure's plan was good, or the way he explained it all was good either, but this is sort of unfair.

Stannis marched to remove the Boltons from power in Winterfell, because as long as they sit there, they're a disruptive power and make it virtually impossible to consolidate his grip on the north.

Renly considered leaving Stannis to continue his march on the capital, but Tarly advised against it.

Read his reasons.

And Edmure thought Stannis was going to be besieging SE therefore, so no reason to think he was suddenly going to lunge for KL.

At this point, im convinced most people that blame Robb either dislike him, or flatout don't comprehend the many ways Martin has crafted his story.

Most things that happen are compared n contrasted, sometimes not directly, but if you read deeply, you'll see there's nothing new under the son in these books.

what contrasts are you thinking of?

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:D Edmure accept this but you guys are not, i'm sorry for saying the truth.

Blackfish has no reason for blaming his own nephew and lying about it, since they didn't made the wedding propose Cat did.

Plus without Robb he was captive and his castle was sieging by Kingslayer, i think you forget that. Edmure's fault was begin long before and he continue that... Don't like Robb came there and being his king for no reason...

Unless Robb is super dumb he knew Edmure is the only acceptable candidate despite musing about other possibilities.
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Funny that it came again Robb-hate. While i'm especially saying the more angry one, about this battle, his own uncle Blackfish.

If we are playing a guilt tournament, is Edmure the one who loses it all because of robbs stupidity with the freys.

I think there is 2 point always people forgets.

1-) Edmure was already lost his everything to Jaime Lannister. Robb gave it to him by saving him.

2-) He was Robb's bannermen not his ally, so his job was serving him. Everything he got, belong to his king.

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Funny that it came again Robb-hate. While i'm especially saying the more angry one, about this battle, his own uncle Blackfish.why? Hoster was still the lord of River lands. If they bend the knee and retourn to kings peace probably edmure would get out.

I think there is 2 point always people forgets.

1-) Edmure was already lost his everything to Jaime Lannister. Robb gave it to him by saving him.

2-) He was Robb's bannermen not his ally, so his job was serving him. Everything he got, belong to his king.

Hoster was still lord of the river lands. If they bend the knee and retourn to kings peace, edmure would get relised and tullys would be still in power.
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Funny that it came again Robb-hate. While i'm especially saying the more angry one, about this battle, his own uncle Blackfish.

What is he going to do, tell the King he was an idiot who should of kept it in his pants? He has known Ed his whole life and been his superior up until a few weeks ago while he has been Robbs subordinate since he met.

2-) He was Robb's bannermen not his ally, so his job was serving him. Everything he got, belong to his king.

If your mayor or local politician told you that your home and familys home had to be destroyed for the good of the realm you would be conflicted as well.

It is not as simple as doing what your Kings says as you have a responsibility to your own people and lands. If Edmure can not protect them he might be overthrown himself and if Robb is defeated in the West, Ed has pretty much doomed himself and the Riverlords by sitting on their ass.

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What is he going to do, tell the King he was an idiot who should of kept it in his pants? He has known Ed his whole life and been his superior up until a few weeks ago while he has been Robbs subordinate since he met.

If your mayor or local politician told you that your home and familys home had to be destroyed for the good of the realm you would be conflicted as well.

It is not as simple as doing what your Kings says as you have a responsibility to your own people and lands. If Edmure can not protect them he might be overthrown himself and if Robb is defeated in the West, Ed has pretty much doomed himself and the Riverlords by sitting on their ass.

This is war it's should be expected that some of your people and their homes will be distroyed it's comes with the territory. and there's a big difference between a mayor and a king

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Hoster was still lord of the river lands. If they bend the knee and retourn to kings peace, edmure would get relised and tullys would be still in power.

The Tully's never left the King's peace , they were the ones attacked by the Lannisters. Ask the Reynes or the Tarbecks about what happens to a house that gets on the wrong side of Tywin Lannister. Why would Tywin allow Edmure to rule the Riverlands whether he bends the Knee or not . He would probably have Jaimie send Edmure to Casterly rock and put Gemma's husband in charge of Riverrun. People seem to always forget how bad off the Riverlands were when Robb went south. Their armies had been destroyed and most of their castles were taken and Edmure sat in a cage outside Riverrun with the army that was surrounding it with no hope of being saved. The only reason that Robb had to make the deal with Walder Frey was because he had to save the Riverlands. If the Riverlords had been able to hold their own against the Lannisters then Robb could have come down the King's road and threatened Kings Landing but instead he had to save the Riverlands. Robb broke the siege of Riverrun and help the Riverlords take back their castles and their pride and that's why they called him king.

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Here is were we disagree. I dont think tywin would have defeated stannis without tyrells. His army was really beaten up by edmure and there were no more resources in KL to aid him. I think stannis would crush him, so edmure plan was not bad at all. Harrenthal its a plus. Nobody know at this point tyrells were going to get in...

Edmure's plan was not bad at all? his plan allowed the Lannisters to link up with the Tyrells and destroy Stannis at Kings Landing which pretty much ended Edmure's and Robb's chance at winning the war. When the Blackfish explained to him what had happened he knew that he screwed up and that's why he accepted the Frey wedding .

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Well obviously but as we do not have feudal Kings and I dont think Marco rules a major state I had to scale down the comparison.

My point was no one is on equal terms with their king that's why you have to kneel before them. Your on equal terms with your local mayor as far as status as a citizen of where ever your from and Edmure should have acted accordingly. Also since Rob was king of the trident those were his lands and his people and it was his decision to let their homes be pillaged or whatever

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Edmure wasn't wrong to do as he did given the information he had on hand. Robb simply guilted him into marrying a Frey by pretending he had some elaborate plan that only made sense in hindsight.

Truth is, Robb cannot have planned to play cat and mouse with Tywin in the Westerlands before he gave Edmure his orders because Robb and Grey Wind had not yet discovered the secret passage around the Golden Tooth yet. And without that secret passage, there was no plan.

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