RumHam Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I seem to recall something about the Targaryens being mocked as cowards for moving to Dragonstone. Found what I was thinking of:In Valyria, there were two score rival houses that contested for power. House Targaryen, however, was not considered a powerful house. Daenerys the Dreamer, the daughter of the head of House Targaryen, foresaw the Doom and convinced her father to leave Valyria. Her father, Aenar, took his family to Dragonstone along with 5 dragons. In Valyria, this was seen as weakness. The Doom happened 12 years after Aenar left for Dragonstone.http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Month/2012/09/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir to His House Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 Excellent anaylsis and idea. I would expect at least a few dragons were out in the provinces when the Doom hit. So either it was set up, as you suggested - the FM acted when there was a gathering, perhaps a conference or tourney - or else several dragons survived the Doom but not the century that followed, when all the dragonlords in the provinces fought each other to be the new Big Cheese of a re-founded Valyria.Which only begs a further question: if the Targ dragons were the only survivors of Valyria... why did the Targs prefer Westeros? Were they disgusted with teh Free Cities and Slavers' Bay by that time? Surely they could have re-founded Valyria in Essos.Thanks!But even if there were some leftover dragons who fought for superiority, wouldn't one of them have been the Volantene leader? Nothing is mentioned about Aegon fighting another dragon.As for Aegon going to Westeros, who knows? Why didn't the Valyrians go to Westeros either? Dorne & the Stormlands are RIGHT THERE.Either way, I'm ver suspicious that no other Valyrian dragons survived the Doom. Something is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 As for Aegon going to Westeros, who knows? Why didn't the Valyrians go to Westeros either? Dorne & the Stormlands are RIGHT THERE.Some people think it was because they had heard stories about skingchangers and feared losing control of their dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 This is what I am asking: How is it that not one other dragon was in the Colonies/Free Cities when the Doom happened?I'd guess that the Valyrians were extremely tight fisted when it came to stationing dragons outside of the Valyrian Peninsula. Sure, you take them out to burn and conquer, but you take them home to Valyria as soon as you're done.Because the absolute worst thing that could happen to the Freehold is that somebody somewhere unfriendly got control of a dragon, or worse a dragon egg, and suddenly the Valyrians had to fight a war where their enemies had an even advantage. The only way to combat that was to keep them all dragons in the empire's heart except when they were out reaving.That's why no dragons besides the Targaryen dragons survived the Doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I'd guess that the Valyrians were extremely tight fisted when it came to stationing dragons outside of the Valyrian Peninsula. Sure, you take them out to burn and conquer, but you take them home to Valyria as soon as you're done.Because the absolute worst thing that could happen to the Freehold is that somebody somewhere unfriendly got control of a dragon, or worse a dragon egg, and suddenly the Valyrians had to fight a war where their enemies had an even advantage. The only way to combat that was to keep them all dragons in the empire's heart except when they were out reaving.That's why no dragons besides the Targaryen dragons survived the Doom.We know the Valyrians controlled their dragons with "binding spells and sorcerous horns." Apparently the Princess and The Queen will reveal that Targayen blood is needed to ride a Taragaryen dragon. If that's true and not just clever propaganda by the Targaryens, then presumably the Valyrian dragons couldn't be ridden by non-Valyrians. At the very least someone would need to steal a horn and preform the spells to bind it to their blood. Even if someone got ahold of a dragon or two, that's still not an even advantage. There were about forty dragonlord families in Valyria, we know the Targaryens were lesser dragonlords and left Valyria with five dragons. That means Valyria had a lot of dragons. You'd have to steal a decent amount to pose a serious threat to Valyria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 "I sense a disturbance in the force." - Aegon"I sense an earthquake." - Visenya"Let's leave and not tell anyone else lol." - Rhaenys"K lol." - Aegon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 We know the Valyrians controlled their dragons with "binding spells and sorcerous horns." Apparently the Princess and The Queen will reveal that Targayen blood is needed to ride a Taragaryen dragon. If that's true and not just clever propaganda by the Targaryens, then presumably the Valyrian dragons couldn't be ridden by non-Valyrians. At the very least someone would need to steal a horn and preform the spells to bind it to their blood. Even if someone got ahold of a dragon or two, that's still not an even advantage. There were about forty dragonlord families in Valyria, we know the Targaryens were lesser dragonlords and left Valyria with five dragons. That means Valyria had a lot of dragons. You'd have to steal a decent amount to pose a serious threat to Valyria.I agree to this, I think the Valyrians may have dabbled with some sorcery that transfused their blood thats why they can bond to dragons.I also assume thats how the first men got their skinchanging abilities by dabbling in sorcery with the cotf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Dayne's Honor Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I wonder if the wargs of old could warg dragons but with the Faith coming to Westeros and worship of the Old Gods declining their powers began to shrink over generations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mankytoes Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Maybe they kept order with just the threat of dragons?Yeah, I mean the Targs weren't constantly flying around Westeros putting down revolutions. Considering there were, what, hundreds of dragons? Revolution was unthinkable, so the dragons could stay home in peace time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 "I sense a disturbance in the force." - Aegon"I sense an earthquake." - Visenya"Let's leave and not tell anyone else lol." - Rhaenys"K lol." - AegonThey didn't know about the doom, it was Daenys Targaryen who predicted when they fled ValyriaAegon was not even born, he was born 100 years after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 The part about the Targs being seen as cowards for leaving makes me suspect that other Valyrians may have seen the Doom coming too (i.e. not just a Targaryen ability), it's just that the Targs were the only ones to act on the information. Or to put it another way, if the Targs alone had members with this prophetic ability, wouldn't they be able to parlay that into being something other than also-rans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE WATCHER IN THE DARK Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 The Dragons were only used for warfare and keeping down rebellions, maybe the freehold was in a state of peace before the doom happened so there wasn't any need for the dragons to be off somewhere elsewhere. Also, all dragonlords lived in the peninsula apart from the targaryens. It makes sense for them to keeps their dragon close to prevent any political rivals from attacking them when they were weak.But I do like the theory of the families bringing all their dragons together so they could preform some ultimate magic to take over the rest of the world and somehow the plan went wrong and caused the doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 The part about the Targs being seen as cowards for leaving makes me suspect that other Valyrians may have seen the Doom coming too (i.e. not just a Targaryen ability), it's just that the Targs were the only ones to act on the information. Or to put it another way, if the Targs alone had members with this prophetic ability, wouldn't they be able to parlay that into being something other than also-rans?I donno. Considering how "useful" prophesy has been so far, it may have actually been a gift that counted against the Targaryans. The information you get is infuriatingly vague and easily (and disastrously) misinterpreted. You never know if you are acting against your visions or bringing them to pass yourself. Plus....half that stuff makes no sense anyway/sounds impossible/ is just depressing to think about/ whaaaat?The most powerful dragonlords don't have time for that. They'd probably dealt in certainties. And one of the things they were probably most certain of was their ability to handle whatever threat may come along. Vision or no vision. Let those jumpy Targaryans move their whole house to the middle of nowhere, if it makes them feel better. The real dragonlords will face this danger, and the real dragonlords will defeat it.And as for why the dragons were "allowed" to leave, I think the dragons of your house are yours, and they go where you go. The Targaryans moved their whole family to outside valyria, and obviously they would be permitted to include their dragons in that move. Five dragons isn't a threat to the empire, and the Targaryans (still Valyrians after all) wouldn't permit them to be used as such anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Idiots Lantern Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 But I do like the theory of the families bringing all their dragons together so they could preform some ultimate magic to take over the rest of the world and somehow the plan went wrong and caused the doom.MAYBE....my own working theory is that the Doom was caused by the slaves working the mines under the Fourteen Fires. It's highly implied that these aren't just volcanos: they are where the dragons came from and there might be some magic under there.... the slaves who lived there figured it out, and unleashed it to destroy the whole twisted system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 They didn't know about the doom, it was Daenys Targaryen who predicted when they fled ValyriaAegon was not even born, he was born 100 years afterThere, there. I was just trying to inject some humor. I read the post before I replied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining Blood Magic Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Here is a crazy thought. So if you buy into the Faceless Men causing the Doom theory (which is fucking crazy in my opinion) then lets say the Faceless Men threw a huge party in Valyria and invited all the Dragon Lords and their dragons to come get wasted and celebrate. Then the FM dropped the fucking hammer down on the Valyrian Peninsula and boom! But the Targaryens were like "Na man, I got better shit to do and didn't our daughter tell us she had a bad feeling about that party?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Here is a crazy thought. So if you buy into the Faceless Men causing the Doom theory (which is fucking crazy in my opinion) then lets say the Faceless Men threw a huge party in Valyria and invited all the Dragon Lords and their dragons to come get wasted and celebrate. Then the FM dropped the fucking hammer down on the Valyrian Peninsula and boom! But the Targaryens were like "Na man, I got better shit to do and didn't our daughter tell us she had a bad feeling about that party?"Crazy how, exactly? They all but tell Arya they had something to do with Valyria's downfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winds of Winter blow cold Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 The trouble with being a prophet is getting people to believe you. The Targ's were like Cassandra. & if there are other dragon's out there why wasn't magic working better before Dany's hatched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent_Hero Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 The trouble with being a prophet is getting people to believe you. The Targ's were like Cassandra. & if there are other dragon's out there why wasn't magic working better before Dany's hatched?The real kicker here is were the Targaryens the only Valyrian house with prophetic abilities? Which of course I believe the other Noble Houses of Valyria had some other magics with them including the ability to see the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bong of Ice and Fire Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 How did the Valeryons of Driftmark escape the doom? We meet Aurane Waters and hear a bit about the Valeryons fighting with Stannis on the Blackwater. But I'm not really clear who they are. I wonder if this will play any role going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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