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S+B=M: Mel - The Red Star Bleeding / Melony Seastar (part 2 has been added on pg.9)


yolkboy

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You're right. Someone should do the math. I'm suck with numbers.

Yeah, Bloodraven was born in 175, which means that Melisandre shouldn't be way over 100 (if she's his daughter).

But I wouldn't put too much weight on that statement by Carice, maybe they told her "She's like... super old. Like, over 100." and she just interpreted it as "Way over 100."

ETA:

This is the problem introducing dubious canon, and all I take from the Carice interview is that Mel is probably elongating her life and is very old, as alluded to in the text.

Yeah, that's how I'd see it.

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Okay. Bloodraven born in 175AL, we are in 300AL. He's 125 y/o right now. Let's say he and Shiera had Melony when he was 25 and let say she was a little bit younger than him, she was 23. 175+25= 200. It means Melony was born in 200AL. Which makes Melisandre exactly 100 y/o.



I might me wrong. Very wrong. My brain stops when I see numbers.


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I wonder how Nan could figure into this group?

Those on the Heresy threads believe she is something more than she appears, (a parallel to the Morrigan goddess), and older, MUCH older as well.

In a way, old Nan is an embodiment of the Crone: Old but she remembers the stories from the Age of Heroes and passes her wisdom on. She also warns the Stark kids that so far all they've seen is Summer. (Which is quite an irony considering that a northerner and follower of the old gods is the embodiment of one of the seven.)

I would agree that she's probably more than she appears but, alas, I don't think that she'll turn into some sort of goddess. She's too much the "old wise grandma" stock character, someone to offer stories and warnings like Maggy the Frog, the woodswitch from Summerhall or the Ghost of High Heart but without direct action in the story. Although GRRM loves to disappoint expectations regarding fantasy story patterns he does maintain basic story telling patterns¹ and the "old wise grandma" stock character is extremely basic and in now way limited to fantasy stories.

¹) Violating the very generic basic story telling patterns would just ruin the entire story completely. You can violate genre specific patterns as often as you want, you can violate maybe one basic pattern for the final twist but you can't continuously violate generic patterns or else your story falls apart.

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In a way, old Nan is an embodiment of the Crone: Old but she remembers the stories from the Age of Heroes and passes her wisdom on. She also warns the Stark kids that so far all they've seen is Summer. (Which is quite an irony considering that a northerner and follower of the old gods is the embodiment of one of the seven.)

I would agree that she's probably more than she appears but, alas, I don't think that she'll turn into some sort of goddess. She's too much the "old wise grandma" stock character, someone to offer stories and warnings like Maggy the Frog, the woodswitch from Summerhall or the Ghost of High Heart but without direct action in the story. Although GRRM loves to disappoint expectations regarding fantasy story patterns he does maintain basic story telling patterns¹ and the "old wise grandma" stock character is extremely basic and in now way limited to fantasy stories.

¹) Violating the very generic basic story telling patterns would just ruin the entire story completely. You can violate genre specific patterns as often as you want, you can violate maybe one basic pattern for the final twist but you can't continuously violate generic patterns or else your story falls apart.

No, I think if she something more, it's likely in the tradition of the Ghost of Highhart, or witch/crone in the sense she would bear witness, and would have been around to know when Bloodraven was LC of the Wall.

Most people suspect she was the young girl in Dunks arms in Brans visions, and if that is the case, then Dunk, and likely Egg did make their way to Winterfell, or at least to the North.

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No, I think if she something more, it's likely in the tradition of the Ghost of Highhart, or witch/crone in the sense she would bear witness, and would have been around to know when Bloodraven was LC of the Wall.

Most people suspect she was the young girl in Dunks arms in Brans visions, and if that is the case, then Dunk, and likely Egg did make their way to Winterfell, or at least to the North.

Absolutely agree with that statement. I don't think she's the crone (or any other god). Let's not forget that GRRM told us that we're not going to see any gods in the books. It's just that if there was a crone, she'd probably be fairly similar to Old Nan. :cool4:

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Yolkboy,



I know you mentioned Varamyr's prologue in relationship to weirwood eyes, but I wanted to post a bit more regarding eyes, stars, and bleeding. I hope I am not just repeating something said earlier.



In this entire prologue I have noticed the story of Sansa, and Sandor, Arya, and Sandor, Catelyn as well as Arya. When Varamyr is thinking about his past, those story lines about the above characters are also found in his narrative.



What struck me in his story is about the Melisandre "dragon" Targ and Thistle. I will post below the scene perhaps someone with more insight than I have can interpret it better.



Varamyr could see the weirwood's red eyes staring down at him from the white trunk. The gods are weighing me.



Thistle has returned to him. He leapt out of his skin, and forced himself inside her.



Notice what happens next. She raised her hands to his face. (Actually hers as well). He tried to push them down again, but the hands would not obey, and she was clawing at his eyes. Abomination, he remembered, drowning in blood and pain and madness. When he tried to scream, she spat their tongue out.



The white world turned and fell away. For a mad moment it was a if he were inside the weirwood gazing out through carved red eyes as a dying man twitched feebly on the ground and a madwoman danced blind and bloody underneath the moon, weeping red tears and ripping at her clothes.



Notice as he is dying we have. A hundred ravens took to the air. A great elk trumpeted, unsettling the children clinging to his back. A sleeping direwolf raised his head to snarl at empty air.



Pale pink icicles hung from her fingertips, ten long knives of frozen blood.



When you mentioned the nine weirwood trees beyond the Wall and Mel perhaps making a mistake and seeing rangers weeping blood instead of the weirwood trees. I was reminded of this prologue.



Is it possible we might see a variation of this with Jon later being brought before the nine weirwood trees and Melisandre as the madwoman dancing and weeping tears of blood. Not that I am advocating Jon trying to slip into Melisandre..I hate that idea completely and I do not think GRRM will write it that way but just that hints are laid out in this prologue concerning Melisandre and perhaps Jon and the nine heart trees.



Also mention has been made regarding Melisandre's fingers in earlier chapters being like fire or shooting fire. Parallel to Thistles bloody fingers. Also this is really close in symbol to Catelyn at the RW scratching her face out and loosing her voice. Another mother crying over her dead children and becoming a different type of creature.



To lend a bit of crackpot to the Melisandre being a hidden dragon. I do not recall which episode it was in..the one right after the loss of Blackwater Bay. Stannis and Mel and he is really angry at her and she the actress does this thing with her body. The camera is facing her face, we the viewers are looking right into her face and she does this thing with her body that totally freaked me out. I told my husband and the time..ewww she looks like a serpent or a dragon..I know the show is not canon..but I suspect that D&D have given the actress some clues behind the scene and she made that movement on purpose. When this whole thread came up, that was something that immediately came back to me. She reminded me of a serpent rising. Crackpot but there you go.


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Wow, truly. This is a perfect example of why I feel unworthy on posting to these forums. :bowdown: Such great catches and connections. I absolutely LOVE this one.



I was always under the impression that BloodBran would resurrect Jon, and NOT Mel. But now, after reading your theories, I'm of the mind that all three will play their part. Mel crying blood to wake AA, just, mind blown.



Thank you for your great thread ser yolkboy.


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And Bran as Fenrir, the bound wolf

I think most of these connections are coincidental, though.

GRRM certainly draws some inspirations from other stories, legends etc., but I don't think it's so clear cut, that you can directly say "This character from ASOIAF is like that character from [insert some other work of literature]" with George being directly inspired by that.

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