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yolkboy

S+B=M: Mel - The Red Star Bleeding / Melony Seastar (part 2 has been added on pg.9)

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My question is how did Mel end up as a slave if she's Shiera's daughter?

This is the best I could think of...

Shiera had an interest in prophesies, and nobody knows what happened to her. Perhaps she decided to go East, and was captured by slavers and sold on. This would explain why Melony, lot 7, was a slave long ago. Reasons for Shiera fleeing could be; to hide Bloodraven's lovechild from Maekar and others in a turbulent political time, demonisation of royal bastards in the Blackfyre era, or maybe to flee from the great spring sickness. Shiera might have tried to head to Lys, given her mother was from there. These scenarios make more sense if she had a secret child or was pregnant.

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Very nice theory! The evidence there is more than enough to prove it and it would make a lot more sense than Mel=Shiera herself.

I had another thought that would go with this theory, somewhat crackpot. A revived Jon Snow (who it turns out is not AAR) opts to make a shadow baby in order to save the NW and the realm. Thus it introduces tPtwP, born amidst smoke and salt when the red star bleeds and becomes the Saviour of the Realm, if only for a short while.

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Don't get me wrong, nothing is wrong with your theory and it makes sense but I'm just confused with the slave part, it's a theory killer in the most of theories about Melisandre.

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Great read, thank you. You have me quite intrigued.

Another... thing that might be worth mentioning, Melisandre instantly feels a strong connection to Jon. We know, that Jon presumably has both First Men and Valyrian blood, and the only other character we know who shares that, is Bloodraven. Well, Bloodraven and Melisandre, if she's really his daughter.

Also, she has a really strong connection to Ghost. I argued in the Bloodraven tab that Mel could be an albino. Briefly - she has cream white skin, BR has milk white. BR wore hooded cloaks in daylight because his skin was sensitive, Mel does the same at the parley, in daylight. Mel and BR have Red eyes. The only thing that doesnt fit is Mels red hair, and grrm happened to drop an ssm about how advanced red hair dye was in Planetos. So maybe Ghost and Mel have an albino connection, possibly.

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Don't get me wrong, nothing is wrong with your theory and it makes sense but I'm just confused with the slave part, it's a theory killer in the most of theories about Melisandre.

How is it a theory killer? A lot of characters have been sold into slavery. Varys, Jorah, Jorah's poachers, Tyrion, Penny, all of those Unsullied, those people from Hardhome, Robert's twins and mother of the twins, the red priests, MEL, and so on and so forth. Why is it hard to believe that Shiera or a descendant was sold into slavery?

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Because she's a Targaryen and they are slavery-proof :P

Dany has something to say about that. ;) Because, you know, she feels very strongly that she was sold as a slave. Viserys implies that she's being sold. She felt like she was a slave. She worried about being a slave. She thankfully never becomes a full-on slave because of dragons. Dragons are slave-proof.

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Dany has something to say about that. ;) Because, you know, she feels very strongly that she was sold as a slave. Viserys implies that she's being sold. She felt like she was a slave. She worried about being a slave. She thankfully never becomes a full-on slave because of dragons. Dragons are slave-proof.

Indeed.

I feel like I should answer that, dunno why.

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Impressive. Most impressive. We know Daemon founded House Blackfyre, which appears set reemerge in a big way. We know Bittersteel founded the Golden Company, which has carried on to the present day and appears set to put a Blackfyre on the throne after so many years. On the other side we know Bloodraven became the last greenseer and has gathered Bran to carry on. I suspect it's only a matter of tme before we see how Sheira impacts the plot. Thanks for posting your theory.

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Maybe Grrm planned to use D and E stories to give us this information, and fell behind the curve writing them. So ssm's might be an outlet for him to release canon info - that he wants out there.

I think the info regarding Shiera came from Martin's description to Amok to help shape the character's portrait. I do agree that she was probably meant and may still be a prominent character in the D&E stories. The more I read your theory the more I warm up to it. I just think this may end up a theory that is never explicitly answered in the books.

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Dany has something to say about that. ;) Because, you know, she feels very strongly that she was sold as a slave. Viserys implies that she's being sold. She felt like she was a slave. She worried about being a slave. She thankfully never becomes a full-on slave because of dragons. Dragons are slave-proof.

Indeed, a dragon is no slave. :cool4:

Yolkboy, just want to say that this is an excellent theory and I am all for it. Pretty damn convincing stuff. In the past I've had the thought myself that Mel is Shiera's daughter, but I certainly never bothered to really investigate and build a case. Best theory I've read in months.

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Impressive. Most impressive. We know Daemon founded House Blackfyre, which appears set reemerge in a big way. We know Bittersteel founded the Golden Company, which has carried on to the present day and appears set to put a Blackfyre on the throne after so many years. On the other side we know Bloodraven became the last greenseer and has gathered Bran to carry on. I suspect it's only a matter of tme before we see how Sheira impacts the plot. Thanks for posting your theory.

This is a really interesting angle that i hadn't thought of. Maybe that's why these 4 great bastards were the only ones named - they are going to be important to the future of the story.

I think the info regarding Shiera came from Martin's description to Amok to help shape the character's portrait.

If Martin gave that ssm JUST for amok to draw, why did he include this info? It has nothing to do with how she should be drawn. He wanted it out there, knew it would be an ssm, and what he chose to share, he did so for a reason....

Lady Shiera was the natural daughter of King Aegon IV by the ninth and last of his mistresses, Lady Serenei of Lys, the last daughter of an ancient but impoverished line of Valyrian nobility. "Sweet Serenei," Aegon called her, but about his court she was considered cold and haughty, and some said that she was much older than the king, and preserved her beauty by the practice of dark arts. Considered by many the most lovely of Aegon's mistresses, Sweet Serenei died in childbed, bringing forth the last of the king's "Great Bastards," the daughter she named Shiera, Star of the Sea.

Yolkboy, just want to say that this is an excellent theory and I am all for it. Pretty damn convincing stuff. In the past I've had the thought myself that Mel is Shiera's daughter, but I certainly never bothered to really investigate and build a case. Best theory I've read in months.

Thanks a lot Techelles, and good to see you had the idea. Mel = Shiera was close, but didn't quite fit, that's what led me down the trail.

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Okay, I read it all again and now it makes sense :o

Good job!

Oh I'm glad, sorry it was a long thread and quite hard to present the information. It's probably not the easiest read :wacko:

(by the way, is mrs. grumpy a cat? Does that mean she's married?)

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Could you point to the location of the raven saying "Blood" in ADWD? I did a quick search last night and could not find it. So much quicker to ask. I think you've put together some interesting evidence.

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Could you point to the location of the raven saying "Blood" in ADWD? I did a quick search last night and could not find it. So much quicker to ask. I think you've put together some interesting evidence.

Mel is mentioned twice around Mormont's raven, and both times he says 'blood'. Once king's blood is being discussed, the next time it's for no apparent reason.

affc...

Where Melisandre thinks to find a sleeping dragon, no one is quite sure. It’s nonsense. Mance’s blood is no more royal than mine own. He has never worn a crown nor sat a throne. He’s a brigand, nothing more. There’s no power in brigand’s blood.”

The raven looked up from the floor. “Blood,” it screamed.

adwd...

Jon lied, and they talked for a while of Mance and Stannis and Melisandre of Asshai, until the raven ate the last corn kernel and screamed, “Blood.”

BTW if you could edit your post, and where youve quoted my op, delete and just write 'snip', it tidies up the thread. ;)

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Great theory yolkboy, and very well presented! As soon as I saw the title I started thinking of evidence (all of which you've more than covered), and all those small questions about Mel and glamours ;)

This makes much more sense from an evidentiary perspective as well as a plot perspective than any other I've seen. Well done and consider me on board :cheers:

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