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yolkboy

S+B=M: Mel - The Red Star Bleeding / Melony Seastar (part 2 has been added on pg.9)

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At least in the TV show Eddard said: "You will marry a great lord and rule his castle", not "You will marry a king". I do not seem to find him saying "king" in the books either. Did he?

Eddard V:

Arya cocked her head to one side. “Can I be a king’s councillor and build castles and become the High Septon?”

“You,” Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, “will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon.”

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At least in the TV show Eddard said: "You will marry a high lord and rule his castle", not "You will marry a king". I do not seem to find him saying "king" in the books either. Did he?

EDIT: I was corrected about the books. He promised kings to both of his daughters :laugh:

:) Yes he did, but the irony is that at the time, Sansa was the only one to end up with a king, later we see several to choose from. Ned not only outwits the greatest "players" of his time in keeping a promise and hiding a king- the true king, but ends up the "accidental prophet." :bowdown:

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And didn't they have their tongues cut out? Why would they volunteer for that?

Because none of it actually happened. Masters of illusion?

Maybe, but as I recall, Euron forced a few of the warlocks to eat their dead companion. pretty deep cover, to say the least.

Indeed. deeply successful. If.

How would Seastar Bleeding Star benefit the mystery of Fire & Ice, besides fitting in to it with matching necklaces and such? Is it becoming a family affair instead of a battle of natural forces?

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Because none of it actually happened. Masters of illusion?

Indeed. deeply successful. If.

Let's be real, here, MOTO. Magic didn't protect the Undying from burning to the ground. Despite Mel's magic, she's still a slave. Moqorro is still a slave. Jaqen had a type of magic, and he was basically enslaved. It required the help of another to set him free, and Arya only used the magic of physics to do so. The Others possess magic, they still get dead. Varamyr was magical, he died and, if he hadn't eaten his own body, his body would have been enslaved as a wight. MMD knew magic, and she was made a slave.

Magic isn't some protection against death, detonguing, forced cannibalism or enslaving.

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Really likking this theory yolkboy well done.

there are to many connections for it not to be true in some form.

Bit crackpot i know but do you think her name has some sort of meaning

melisandre mel is andre. what does andre mean stand for?? ANother Dragon REborn....

probably nonsence but just thought id throw it in there...

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Great theory!

I must confess that I had a problem with Shiera end up as a slave, but like others said magic doesn't solve everything or maybe Shiera die in childbirth like her mother and Mel was raised by somebody else who then end up as a slave.

Either way I think you are right and so, if this is true, I really hope to see Mel finding out who her parents were and that she is a secret Targ! :laugh:

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I like it. Maybe the Mel POV in ADWD was for George to give us hints about this. After all, if it was true, I think it would add much more to her character.

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I like it but I'm worried about the timeline. We really have no clue how old Melisandre is.....glamours and whatnot. But we DO know Bloodraven is very very very old, older than Aemon OLD! So she could be granddaughter, or great granddaughter even, of BR and Shiera. That and the slavery would lend itself well to losing memory and knowledge of her heritage. And her secret bastard-Targ-ness could make her a little warm blooded. :)

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Really likking this theory yolkboy well done.

there are to many connections for it not to be true in some form.

Bit crackpot i know but do you think her name has some sort of meaning

melisandre mel is andre. what does andre mean stand for?? ANother Dragon REborn....

Cheers Tommy, interesting about the name.

I realised that Melisandre is a perfect anagram of 'mislearned', which fits her character well sometimes, especially in light of the fact she doesn't seem to know she's got King's blood etc. (if theory is true).

No idea if this is coincidence or not, but hey. It's the only perfect anagram I could find for any of the main characters.

I like it. Maybe the Mel POV in ADWD was for George to give us hints about this. After all, if it was true, I think it would add much more to her character.

Yes, I believe he needed to show Mel bleeding so it wasn't a dues-ex-machina if it happens at the rebirth of Azor Ahai. He wants us to solve his puzzles, and he would be cheating us if he didn't have relevant clues in canon.

I like it but I'm worried about the timeline. We really have no clue how old Melisandre is.....glamours and whatnot. But we DO know Bloodraven is very very very old, older than Aemon OLD! So she could be granddaughter, or great granddaughter even, of BR and Shiera.

Well here's a big hint she's pretty old.

Melisandre had practiced her art for years beyond count

I'm tempted to tell you what GRRM said about Mel, but it was via Carice Van Houten, so is not book canon despite originating from the good man's mouth.

I would also say - in terms of story telling - it would make HEAPS more sense to have Mel being Bloodraven's daughter. It sets up many quite fascinating dynamics, which would be lost if Mel was a great granddaughter or whatever. It would have more impact as a plot twist as well. Being the daughter who has elongated her lifespan (like BR) is also simpler and fits thematically.

Given Mel is wearing a glamour for a reason, is highly trained in magic, and there's further hints that her own mother and grandmother had an interest in extending their lives - I don't think her age is an issue at all, there's enough clues.

If she was BR's great great granddaughter or whatever, she would have inherited traits from other people beside S+B. As I showed in the thread, Mel's description is almost a perfect mashup of Shiera and BR....

Skin, eyes, height, figure, face, breasts, beauty, elegance, even apparel.

I wouldn't worry about the timeline, personally.

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Now I must know this un-canon bit of wisdom! Tell me! Teeeeeellllllllll meeeeeee!

I would like to know as well.

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I would like to know as well.

Aw gosh TV show canon alert...

old (second question down)

I have to say that they might change Mel's background for the TV show to simplify etc, they are unlikely to have a complicated back-story, etc. etc. etc. - It's interesting but definitely not canon. (remember they have already altered the Targ family tree)

PS E-RO, I hope you realise your Stannis has possibly fathered two secret Targ shadowbabies. :shocked:

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Aw gosh TV show canon alert...

old (second question down)

I have to say that they might change Mel's background for the TV show to simplify etc, they are unlikely to have a complicated back-story, etc. etc. etc. - It's interesting but definitely not canon.

Very interesting.

PS E-RO, I hope you realise your Stannis has possibly fathered two secret Targ shadowbabies. :shocked:

Yes, as distasteful as that is, we all must do our duty. Great or small, if some targ shadow babies are going to save the realm we don't really have a choice.

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Aw gosh TV show canon alert...

old (second question down)

I have to say that they might change Mel's background for the TV show to simplify etc, they are unlikely to have a complicated back-story, etc. etc. etc. - It's interesting but definitely not canon. (remember they have already altered the Targ family tree)

PS E-RO, I hope you realise your Stannis has possibly fathered two secret Targ shadowbabies. :shocked:

Very interesting indeed! Thanks! And LOL secret Targ Shadowbabies!! See my quote....I think that belongs to butterbumps....I need to fix

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snip

I have another relevant quote I forgot about.

She made it sound a simple thing, and easy. They need never know how difficult it had been, or how much it had cost her. That was a lesson Melisandre had learned long before Asshai;

Doesn't this sound like Mel's been through a lot? "Long before Asshai"? She doesnt seem very old in the books, appearance wise. She's hiding something.

I mean, she probably studied in Asshai for a long time, so it's long before that.

I know it's not a game changer, but it really seems to me that she's pretty old if you add the clues and glamours together.

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I think she must have spent an awful long time in Ashai in order to earn the monika Mellisandre of Ashai. Because no way was she born imo. I think she's very old indeed. at least a 100 yrs.

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I doubt if Melisandre is glamouring herself (except maybe to the extent of hiding her slave tattoos). She seems to exhibit none of the ailments of old age. I think she has genuinely prolonged her age and youthfulness through magic arts.

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Aw gosh TV show canon alert...

old (second question down)

I have to say that they might change Mel's background for the TV show to simplify etc, they are unlikely to have a complicated back-story, etc. etc. etc. - It's interesting but definitely not canon. (remember they have already altered the Targ family tree)

PS E-RO, I hope you realise your Stannis has possibly fathered two secret Targ shadowbabies. :shocked:

I'm inclined to accept the show as being correct in this case. There's nothing in her back story in the show that's inconsistent with what we've learned from her POV in the books. The only thing that's new in the show is her telling Gendry she was "beaten, kicked, and starved" as a slave. I think it's unlikely that such treatment is meted out to any servants of the Red God - which would suggest she was an ordinary slave before the Red Priests bought her.

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