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S+B=M: Mel - The Red Star Bleeding / Melony Seastar (part 2 has been added on pg.9)


yolkboy

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Was watching the tv show last night (again!!) season 2 ep10

After the battle of blackwater when stannis is back at dragonstone hes is moaning to mel about how she was supposed to have seen his victory in the flames etc. She then says something about just cos you have lost a battle you will still win the war. Stannis then says something like ' what wars have you ever fought?'

which she replys something like 'ive been fighting wars alot LONGER than you my king'

This has to be imo a nod to her actual age which is very old and links nicley to ss+br =mel theory of yours yolkboy.

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If any one's interested in Jon Snow, I have a new project about him, - 'Jon Snow's fate'



It's relevant to this thread because I will be leading into a rundown of Jon Snow as Azor Ahai, looking at all the prophesies etc, which means an overlap with the notion of Mel as the red star bleeding. In that sense, the two threads will jigsaw together.


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Yolkboy, you mentioned the Others' eye-color in my Emeralds thread – in relation to the three-forks-of-the-Trident part – but it just occurred to me now that Bloodraven and Shiera happen to have three eye colors: red and blue + green.

I don't know if it directly ties in to any of the analysis in that thread, but it probably reinforces the theme of those three colors being special in the series. Maybe even in a magical way.

Oh, this is another connection between Shiera and Melisandre. Both wear a necklace with gemstones that have the colors of their eyes.

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I see Dany as AAR and John as AAR, this thread explaining connection to the bleeding star even more. Is one TPTWP and the other AAR or are TPTWP and AAR the same but perhaps something like the trinity in 3 parts. I am saying 3 part because The dragon has 3 heads and must have 3 riders. Will there be another that fulfills the prophesies as the 3rd AAR or I am I way off here? It seems that if Jon and Dany both fulfill the prophesy then could there be another? Thoughts please are there 1,2, or 3 AAR's.

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Found another interesting thing in Cressen's prologue from ACoK. A white raven from the Citadel arrives, and Cressen points out:



Shireen gave a cry of delight. Even Cressen had to admit the bird made an impressive sight, white as snow and larger than any hawk, with the bright black eyes that meant it was no mere albino, but a truebred white raven of the Citadel.


As opposed to...



Her hair was not the orange or strawberry color of common red-haired men, but a deep burnished copper that shone in the light of the torches. Even her eyes were red... but her skin was smooth and white, unblemished, pale as cream.


I find it interesting, that GRRM reminds us that red eyes usually equal albinos, in the very first chapter where we meet Melisandre. As if the reader would have doubted, that the white raven was genuine, if he hadn't done that?


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Okay, so this is really all kinds of amazing. :bowdown:



I'm totally with you on Melisandre being the red star bleeding part of the prophecy, I'm completely and utterly sold.



BUT. Where is the smoke and salt part of the prophecy? Yes, with Mel there generally comes fire, and with fire come smoke, but where's the salt? I think most people think of the salt as being of the sea with regards to the AAR prophecy, but Castle Black is far from the sea. Or maybe it's the salt of tears, but would there be a significant mourning of Jon (outside of the readers, of course!) to warrant the tears of this brothers to be considered the salt of the prophecy? It seems that some kind of war between Jon's assassins and the wildlings is about to break out, no time for tears!



The only completely far-fetched crackpot thing I can think of for smoke and salt at Castle Black is the stores of food within the wall. Smoked and salted meat??? Maybe Jon won't be interred in an ice cell, but instead in a storage room with sides of smoked and salted beef and pork? It would seem to be kind of a comical interpretation of the prophecy, but it would fulfill it nonetheless......



Maybe this will get discussed in your Fate of Jon Snow thread more......


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Okay, so this is really all kinds of amazing. :bowdown:

I'm totally with you on Melisandre being the red star bleeding part of the prophecy, I'm completely and utterly sold.

BUT. Where is the smoke and salt part of the prophecy? Yes, with Mel there generally comes fire, and with fire come smoke, but where's the salt? I think most people think of the salt as being of the sea with regards to the AAR prophecy, but Castle Black is far from the sea. Or maybe it's the salt of tears, but would there be a significant mourning of Jon (outside of the readers, of course!) to warrant the tears of this brothers to be considered the salt of the prophecy? It seems that some kind of war between Jon's assassins and the wildlings is about to break out, no time for tears!

The only completely far-fetched crackpot thing I can think of for smoke and salt at Castle Black is the stores of food within the wall. Smoked and salted meat??? Maybe Jon won't be interred in an ice cell, but instead in a storage room with sides of smoked and salted beef and pork? It would seem to be kind of a comical interpretation of the prophecy, but it would fulfill it nonetheless......

Thoughts?

The meat in the storage room doesn't appear to be salted...

“The meat won’t spoil in the cold. For long storage, it’s better than salting.”

I agree the smoke could come from a fire or pyre re Mel.

I think the key word is AMIDST - surrounded by. I think the salt in the prophesy is actually snow. The prophesy was made in Asshai, where they have no snow (its longitude with Sotheros/central Africa)- even Sam hadnt seen snow. So what would anchient Asshai'i call white stuff they'd never seen that was surrounding AA? Salt is used to describe white things often in the books, even Val is descrived as salt.

That's my guess for the salt/smoke.

ETA - as JS says, Tze thought of snow + mist = salt + smoke. I love the idea, but I would go with snow + smoke as it fits the ice/fire motiff rather well

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The meat in the storage room doesn't appear to be salted...

I agree the smoke could come from a fire or pyre re Mel.

I think the key word is AMIDST - surrounded by. I think the salt in the prophesy is actually snow. The prophesy was made in Asshai, where they have no snow (its longitude with Sotheros/central Africa)- even Sam hadnt seen snow. So what would anchient Asshai'i call white stuff they'd never seen that was surrounding AA? Salt is used to describe white things often in the books, even Val is descrived as salt.

That's my guess for the salt/smoke.

Bowen had tears in his eyes and GRRM has pointed out several times even as early as Game that tears have salt. Jon' wound was smoking.
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The meat in the storage room doesn't appear to be salted...

I agree the smoke could come from a fire or pyre re Mel.

I think the key word is AMIDST - surrounded by. I think the salt in the prophesy is actually snow. The prophesy was made in Asshai, where they have no snow (its longitude with Sotheros/central Africa)- even Sam hadnt seen snow. So what would anchient Asshai'i call white stuff they'd never seen that was surrounding AA? Salt is used to describe white things often in the books, even Val is descrived as salt.

That's my guess for the salt/smoke.

Right, they don't need to smoke or salt the meat, they have the ice for preservation.

I could see the snow = salt idea as a misreading of the prophecy imagery. Salt = white has been used often, as you mention, so it could follow that white = snow, or even Val or Ghost or ice.

I continue to be in awe of you.

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I agree the smoke could come from a fire or pyre re Mel.

I think the key word is AMIDST - surrounded by. I think the salt in the prophesy is actually snow. The prophesy was made in Asshai, where they have no snow (its longitude with Sotheros/central Africa)- even Sam hadnt seen snow. So what would anchient Asshai'i call white stuff they'd never seen that was surrounding AA? Salt is used to describe white things often in the books, even Val is descrived as salt.

That's my guess for the salt/smoke.

I agree with this.

I am certain, that both Azor Ahai Reborn and The Prince that was Promised are different interpretations of one and the same thing. As I believe, that all the religions in ASOIAF are made up explanations for the same magical forces that people couldn't understand.

According to Daenerys' vision where Rhaegar talks about the TPTWP, his is the song of ice and fire, which would fit in perfectly with the Azor Ahai prophecy if the Asshai'i just mistook snow for salt.

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Here is the salt reference that I think is important. Val stood on the platform as still as if she had been carved of SALT. She will not weep nor look away.


This is from Jon's chapter when Rattleshirt aka Mance is being burned.



I think in the next book we might see Val singing a song of healing for Jon in the same way that Mirri sang for Drogo. However I put more stock in Val's old gods song with BR and Bran so near. If Mel wants to weep tears of blood..good for her. I dislike her but between her tears and Val as salt..well both might be needed to awaken Jon

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Right, they don't need to smoke or salt the meat, they have the ice for preservation.

I could see the snow = salt idea as a misreading of the prophecy imagery. Salt = white has been used often, as you mention, so it could follow that white = snow, or even Val or Ghost or ice.

I continue to be in awe of you.

Welcome to the forums. :cheers:

The idea that salt = snow is a good one that was originated around these parts by Tze, I believe. She has lots of good posts, not to mention this awesome thread: The Pyre Revisited.

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Don't know if this was mentioned before. In the first chapter of The Mystery Knight, Dunk and Egg come across the body of a Septon who was hanged for treason. Dunk quotes part of his speech, where he says "A shadow came at his command to strangle brave Prince Valarr's sons in their mother's womb." about Bloodraven.



The truthfulness of that statement is questionable, but it's interesting that BR is connected to summoning shadow assassins.


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Don't know if this was mentioned before. In the first chapter of The Mystery Knight, Dunk and Egg come across the body of a Septon who was hanged for treason. Dunk quotes part of his speech, where he says "A shadow came at his command to strangle brave Prince Valarr's sons in their mother's womb." about Bloodraven.

The truthfulness of that statement is questionable, but it's interesting that BR is connected to summoning shadow assassins.

He needed Breakspear's line to perish so he could rule through Aerys I, Rhaegal, and the twins. It would have worked if not for that pesky Maekar.
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  • 1 month later...

Yolkboy, I have no idea how u put all this together. Its amazing. This is the first fantasy series I have ever read. I love the symbolism and everything else that goes along with them, now that I've read one. I've re-read 3 times and yes I pat myself in the back for some things, but WOW! Great job!

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