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S+B=M: Mel - The Red Star Bleeding / Melony Seastar (part 2 has been added on pg.9)


yolkboy

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Whether Serenei knew Dothraki or not, it is GRRM calling the shots. Mel is a very important part of the story. GRRM has to give a significant cosideration to her. If he chooses her mother's name to be very closer to a Dothraki word that he invented, I think there has to be a connection.

<snip

The connection could just be the meaning of the name. It is a name in Lyseni that happens to also be very similar to a the Dothraki word for star, precisely so that the fans would eventually make the connection between Mel and Sheira. There are words that are similar throughout languages in the real world so this isn't a stretch.

Though if Serenei was the product of a Dothraki and Lyseni fling/relationship that would tie the Dothraki bloodline into the current goings on.

To the OP, this is one of my favorite theories. :D

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And then there is the fact that Mel apparently no longer needs to eat or sleep

Likely a part of her being a turbo fire priestess but Barristan does make comments how he in his (relatively) old age can work on 5 hours of sleep while as a youngin' he needed 10+ to function.

The meat in the storage room doesn't appear to be salted...

I agree the smoke could come from a fire or pyre re Mel.

I think the key word is AMIDST - surrounded by. I think the salt in the prophesy is actually snow. The prophesy was made in Asshai, where they have no snow (its longitude with Sotheros/central Africa)- even Sam hadnt seen snow. So what would anchient Asshai'i call white stuff they'd never seen that was surrounding AA? Salt is used to describe white things often in the books, even Val is descrived as salt.

That's my guess for the salt/smoke.

ETA - as JS says, Tze thought of snow + mist = salt + smoke. I love the idea, but I would go with snow + smoke as it fits the ice/fire motiff rather well

:agree: I noticed that too. The Wall has salt in it. And Bran said it was 'strangely warm.'

Just a goofy thing: when JSno leads the wildlings through the gate and has his feast he sighs about how they will run out of butter in a month but had no lack for salt.

All in all--this thread single-handedly made me both a believer and lover of Meli!

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Love what you've done, I'm sold. It may not be true but all you've provided makes it seem very true. It's always been hard for me to understand her attraction to the 7k and what's happening there since she was a slave from across the narrow sea. But if she's a targ it would make sense to me her attraction to who sits the throne and her obsession to fire.


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  • 1 month later...

Another nice addition to the theory from the World of ice and fire previews that were released.





In the Stark lineage, there's a female Blackwood. She's called MELantha.



http://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/WOIAF7.jpg?1a36e6



So we know of 2 females from Bloodraven's House - his mother Melissa, and this Melantha. Two female Blackwoods and two Mel's.



Mel seems like a name with a Blackwood association ;)




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Another nice addition to the theory from the World of ice and fire previews that were released.

In the Stark lineage, there's a female Blackwood. She's called MELantha.

http://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/WOIAF7.jpg?1a36e6

So we know of 2 females from Bloodraven's House - his mother Melissa, and this Melantha. Two female Blackwoods and two Mel's.

Mel seems like a name with a Blackwood association ;)

@yolkboy:

I sort of stumbled onto part 2 of your b+s=m thread and am very impressed with the detailed work and analysis. This last post describing the Blackwood connection to the Stark family, which gives us a 2nd Mel really shores up the Melissandre theory.

I'm a little lazy and didn't read all of the part 2 posts, nor did I go back and try and find part 1. As this part 2 thread comes to a close you might consider combining both parts into a a single op ed piece for your ulitmate part 3 segment of B+S=M.

Nicely done.... :cheers:

P.S: Now I'm going to hit the send button so that I can find this thread in the future. It's really buried...at least that is what the lazy side of my brain is telling me.

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I'm a little lazy and didn't read all of the part 2 posts, nor did I go back and try and find part 1. As this part 2 thread comes to a close you might consider combining both parts into a a single op ed piece for your ulitmate part 3 segment of B+S=M.

I stand corrected...you rock. I went back to mark this post so I can find the god damn thing and realized that you have Parts 1 and 2 embedded in this thread. So, I'll amend my previous post.....when this thread concludes, consolidate the two parts and kick off the next thread.

Still....well done... :cheers:

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I was blown away by this theory, the sheer accuracy and attention to detail deserves big props so well done yolkboy.



As someone who is so intrigued by Melisandre as a character I completely agree with every aspect of this theory and i really believe that you have hit the nail on the head with this one. :bowdown:



As a big Mel fan I've also done some research on her myself and have thought long and hard about her history and persona.


I'd like to point out some things that may or may not help with the validity of the theory.



I know the theory is based off book canon but considering how much David and Dan know about the saga, there could be some stuff to learn from Melisandre by researching some of the show material.



First of all I watched an interview with the actor who played Maester Cressen


He stated that on set he pulled Carice Van Houten aside to ask her why Mel doesn't die from drinking the poison and Carice told him that Melisandre was 400 years old.


I'm not saying this is confirmation of how old Mel is because after all, we know how the show can differ from the books, but 400 seems like a pretty specific number to me which made me wonder is that how old D&D told Carice Mel is? However, it contradicts the interview Carice did shortly before Season 2 aired saying that she was unaware how old Mel is but she is certainly 'over 100 years old'



This may be Carice being coy about revealing too much about her character or it may mean someone got there information wrong on set, but i thought it would be worth talking about.



Another more interesting piece of information I've found is on a DVD commentary between Alan Taylor (director of the particular episode) and Emilia Clarke. The scene is Stannis and Melisandre in Dragonstone after the Battle of Blackwater. Its the part where Stannis is strangling Mel and when he lets go of her she falls to the floor. Here is the conversation between the two during this moment.




Alan : ''The way she stands up here, she's sort of doing this kind of, she's coming back to life, its something she did on her own, a very strange kind of like, we find out later that she's not entirely um..''


Emilia : ''Of course!''


Alan : ''I probably shouldn't say anything more'' [laughs] But standing up strange like that makes sense given who she is.''


Emilia : ''Yes definitely''




This information really intrigued me, especially the 'giving who she is' part, I believe there's a good chance it could be information that George told D&D about her so there's the possibility that it could make sense with regard to your theory and the canon of the books.



I haven't read every page of this thread yet so forgive me if this information is already posted but if not i hope it helps and keep up the good work. :thumbsup:


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I don't recall this being touched upon...

When he came up on deck, the long point of Driftmark was dwindling behind them while Dragonstone rose from the sea ahead. A pale grey wisp of smoke blew from the top of the mountain to mark where the island lay. Dragonmont is restless this morning, Davos thought, or else Melisandre is burning someone else.

Melisandre had been much in his thoughts as Shayala's Dance made her way across Blackwater Bay and through the Gullet, tacking against perverse contrary winds. The great fire that burned atop the Sharp Point watchtower at the end of Massey's Hook reminded him of the ruby she wore at her throat, and when the world turned red at dawn and sunset the drifting clouds turned the same color as the silks and satins of her rustling gowns.

She would be waiting on Dragonstone as well, waiting in all her beauty and all her power, with her god and her shadows and his king. The red priestess had always seemed loyal to Stannis, until now. She has broken him, as a man breaks a horse. She would ride him to power if she could, and for that she gave my sons to the fire. I will cut the living heart from her breast and see how it burns. He touched the hilt of the fine long Lysene dirk that the captain had given him.

...

The mountain grew taller, crowned all in pale smoke.

Davos II

How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have? the riddle ran. A thousand eyes, and one. Some claimed the King's Hand was a student of the dark arts who could change his face, put on the likeness of a one-eyed dog, even turn into a mist. Packs of gaunt gray wolves hunted down his foes, men said, and carrion crows spied for him and whispered secrets in his ear. Most of the tales were only tales, Dunk did not doubt, but no one could doubt that Bloodraven had informers everywhere.

TMK
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I'm going to be honest, I enter this thread to have a good laugh at some crazy theory..,



...I have never been so wrong in my life, bravo :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:



This is really, really well done. (my favorite new theory of the year) :cheers:


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  • 3 weeks later...

Y'all who enjoyed the thread....



I've just released a podcast episode with Lady Gwynhyfvar regarding Mel.



We talk through this S+B=M theory, and there's lots more about the red woman we discuss.



There's readings (set to arranged music) of the onion/davos scene and the DwD flame reading.



A pseudo advert from Asshai shadowbinding academy.



Interested? You goddam should be. :P



Really, this is everything about mel that I've wanted to write about but haven't known where to put it.



Thanks to everyone who helped in the thread, obviously y'all were a huge influence. :wub:



Link's in my sig, it's Ep03 ;)


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Y'all who enjoyed the thread....

I've just released a podcast episode with Lady Gwynhyfvar regarding Mel.

{snipped for space}

I highly recommend this podcast. I listened last night and it was illuminating as well as just plain fun. Yolkboy and Lady Gwyn have a way of explaining things so clearly, as anyone can tell from reading their posts, plus great chemistry. So it's a thoroughly entertaining experience!

P.S. The first 2 broadcasts were just as good.

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I read back on my original posts, and saw how much skepticism I was expressing then. I thought it only fair to come back and tell you that I now assume that your theory to be true and I am starting to piggyback a number of other theories based on this as a bedrock. So kudos, good catch and and excellent writing.


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Another nice addition to the theory from the World of ice and fire previews that were released.

In the Stark lineage, there's a female Blackwood. She's called MELantha.

http://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/WOIAF7.jpg?1a36e6

So we know of 2 females from Bloodraven's House - his mother Melissa, and this Melantha. Two female Blackwoods and two Mel's.

Mel seems like a name with a Blackwood association ;)

Melantha is the heroine of Martin's novella, "Nightflyers". She has some things in common with Melisandre.

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Regarding the possible Shiera Seastar and Dothraki connection, we've seen silver come up on numerous occassions in connection with the Dothraki:



(1) The name of the horse given to Daenerys by Khal Drogo


(2) Dothraki warriors are said to wear silver armbands


(3) Silver, along with salt and seed, are gifts that traders must bring to Vaes Dothrak before they're allowed to do business there.



#3 seems to me to be fairly compelling evidence that Dothraki favor silver. Sheira's preference for silver over gold could be a hint regarding Serenei's Dothraki heritage.


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yolkboy, thank you so much, seriously.



The aspect of R"hllor, and Melisandre/Stannis, for me has always been the most intriguing part of ASOIAF. Combined with Moqorro/Thoros, the side of red is the only side with confirmed magical properties (Others aside).



To make Melisandre a descendent of Sheira/Bloodraven, thats ingenius. The facts tie-in too.



My only question, would be to debunk the myth that she's 400-years old. Now, if she's actually 100-years old as the other rumor says, thatd still tie-in, timelinewise, id think. bloodraven would be what, 25? when he conceived her?



it's said that king's blood can wake the dragon. if melisandre does in fact have king's blood, it could be implied she'd re-awaken (Jon) from the dead. i dont know, dumb correlations that im trying to make fit that probably doesnt need to be at this point.


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