R+L = J v 62

[King of Winters]

Oh definitely! It came up a few threads ago. Jon as Henry VII, who unified two warring houses and ended an extremely bloody period in English history, is a very satisfying parallel. Not only that but the red dragon points to Jon's legitimacy.

Does anyone else think the Plantagenet proverb that surrounds the sigil- Honi soit qui mal y pense- is a fitting message for R and L haters? ;)

I actually had to look for the meaning of that, but yes, it is very fitting: "Shamed be he who thinks evil of it". :)

That should the R+L=J threads' motto :D

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

That should the R+L=J threads' motto :D

:thumbsup:

[Jon Icefyre]

And all these lost and found dragons take us back to that 'bright and dark' in relation to a possible good vs evil connotation...

:agree: Couldn't agree more with this. :thumbsup:

[Rhaegar's Love]

No so crackpotty imho :) A few threads back I hypothesized the black rusty dragon washing up on the Quiet Isle to be a poetic metaphor for a dragon in black aka Jon. Moqorro's dark dragon could add an extra 'shade' to the analysis. Naturally we can't discard a moral connotation (bright/dark as good/evil) nor the Blackfyre interpretation, altough the Isle's dragon reveals ultimately a red 'soul'...

I'm very much intrigued by the 'Dragons old and young' btw :idea:

I've read that Bloodraven would qualify as an old dragon, but I wonder if "dragons old and new" implies that there should be more than one. Aemon would be, but had died by then, or not? Plus, that intriguing theory that Mel might be a child of Bloodraven and Shiera Seastar, that would make Mel qualify, as well.

Ya agreed, although it could also just be saying that if R+L=J is indeed revealed, then in a way, Jon would become a 'new' dragon seeing as though it would be the first time he himself along with the public acknowledges him as the son of Rhaegar Targaryen instead of him being identified as Ned Stark's bastard. So one could say that in itself, would make Jon a 'new' dragon as far as his own self indentity goes. Idk like I said, I still don't quite have a grip on this yet lol.

Going off of the S+B=M, wouldn't both Jon and Mel be dragons old and new, assuming they both find out the truth about their heritage? They're both grown adults by Westerosi standards (and in Mel's case probably genuinely old...yay glamour), who won't discover their Targ heritage (because I don't feel like differentiating between bastard and trueborn blood in any instance right now) until later in life? Obviously they've always had the Targ genes (old) but wouldn't recognize themselves as Targs until the truth is revealed (new). Maybe I'm just being silly but this could make for a very juicy twist, especially if Mel has anything to do with healing/resurrecting Jon, in my opinion at least.

Oh definitely! It came up a few threads ago. Jon as Henry VII, who unified two warring houses and ended an extremely bloody period in English history, is a very satisfying parallel. Not only that but the red dragon points to Jon's legitimacy.

Does anyone else think the Plantagenet proverb that surrounds the sigil- Honi soit qui mal y pense- is a fitting message for R and L haters? ;)

Can this be the theme video then? :)

Perhaps a bit harsh but I'm in a mood lol. It's already been a long week......

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Can this be the theme video then? :)

Perhaps a bit harsh but I'm in a mood lol. It's already been a long week......

:lmao:

a bit stronger than my suggestion, but if the shoe fits... ;)

[Ser Creighton]

:lmao:

a bit stronger than my suggestion, but if the shoe fits... ;)

I couldn't make it through that video. It was prejudice against people who can't help themselves. It really gives non trolls a bad name. What if people start thinking you dress like that? Although I admit the outfit would look much better on a woman, taylored of course.

And the whole I'll show you with a song angle is so Taylor Swift, that it really bothers me. You know ignoring them really works best, or in my case meeting them. But that is rare and nobody is ever that lucky. But I think the song would just encourage them.

Not that I have ever trolled, although I have, and sometimes still do. I mean everyone has to some extent, although I don't consider myself a troll, more like a devils advocate although that could be worse. Is there a devils advocate song?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I couldn't make it through that video. It was prejudice against people who can't help themselves. It really gives non trolls a bad name. What if people start thinking you dress like that? Although I admit the outfit would look much better on a woman, taylored of course.

And the whole I'll show you with a song angle is so Taylor Swift, that it really bothers me. You know ignoring them really works best, or in my case meeting them. But that is rare and nobody is ever that lucky. But I think the song would just encourage them.

Not that I have ever trolled, although I have, and sometimes still do. I mean everyone has to some extent, although I don't consider myself a troll, more like a devils advocate although that could be worse. Is there a devils advocate song?

Oh for sure... Here you go:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LI8WGX3afDs&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLI8WGX3afDs

;)

[Ser Creighton]

Oh for sure... Here you go:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LI8WGX3afDs&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLI8WGX3afDs

;)

My songs better than the troll song. A lot better. Now I am going to go watch Sherlock, I just saw the first episode and it is ever so good, and now I find myself speaking with an English accent. Typing with one as well. Curious?

After watching the show perhaps I will apply my analytical skill to once and for all solve R+L=J. This is no mere case, a boys parents are missing, presumed dead, time is running short. I shall require all my powers of deduction, induction, logic, reasoning, scientific method, and my violin. But first I must figure out what the R, the L and the J stand for. The game is a foot.

[Alia of the knife]

And the epic struggle between Ice and Fire continues.....

http://www.toymania....1106_misers.jpg

What a conflict resolution letter between Rhaegar and Robert might sound like today:

To Whom it may concern:

Robert, my people have reached out to your people, but with negative results.

I am trying to settle this thing so it doesn't go to Court, because you know what my father will do if he has pay out, (he's not a fan of litigation).

Your Strategy and Operations Manager, Ed Stark is highly effective but doesn't communicate well, and Tully won't return my ravens.

Look, it's not like I stole L.S. from your company. She decided that Targaryen enterprises would be a better fit for her needs. I know what a loss she is, but I know you can replace her since you are always looking for top talent and opportunity, (especially opportunity).

If you like, I can help compensate by providing names and references to replace L. Stark. I know a lot of people and am happy to help you network.

I want to do what is best for everyone as accountability in leadership are the hallmark of Targaryen Enterprises.

Best Regards,

R. Targaryen, V.P. of "Visions," Central Division.

[VaramyrSixchins]

There is no consensus.

1) She wasn't posing as Jon's mother in Winterfell (we are not even sure she is posing as Jon's mother in Starfall - Ned Dayne thinks she is Jon's mother, but his source for that is Allyria, who knows little or less and seems to have a confused version of events anyway, not Wylla), just his wetnurse. I think it would be blindingly obvious to most Winterfellians in very short time that she did not have a relationship with Ned Stark.nd its worth noting that there is no gossip of Wylla being the mother that we hear out of Winterfell, so if she was there, it was not posing as his mother...

2) No more dangerous, and perhaps less, than if she is elsewhere.

Consider if she is just the midwife, nothing more. The secret she has is Jon's Targaryen heritage, not some tryst with Ned. That secret could slip anywhere, but is no more likely to slip at Winterfell than anywhere else and much safer if it did slip in Winterfell.

All this makes perfect sense, but there's the practical issue of keeping baby Jon alive during that long trek from Dorne to WF. A wetnurse had to have made the trip w Ned & Reed. Wylla seems the only candidate. I see less risk in bringing her along to WF & dispatching her back to Starfall when her services are no longer needed.

As an aside, I think it's likely that the younger Dayne's account of those events comes from incomplete lore. Ashara's stillbirth has to fit somewhere in there. It's possible Allyria, while being told this romantic, tragic story about her aunt, was kept in the dark about the stillbirth (I.e the thing that could preclude Ashara amongst those in-the-know from the maternity questions re: Jon) and just assumed Wylla was the mother, & passed it along to Edric...

[corbon]

All this makes perfect sense, but there's the practical issue of keeping baby Jon alive during that long trek from Dorne to WF. A wetnurse had to have made the trip w Ned & Reed. Wylla seems the only candidate. I see less risk in bringing her along to WF & dispatching her back to Starfall when her services are no longer needed.

Yes, you and I are in complete agreement here. Ygraine claimed that the 'consensus' was otherwise.

As an aside, I think it's likely that the younger Dayne's account of those events comes from incomplete lore. Ashara's stillbirth has to fit somewhere in there. It's possible Allyria, while being told this romantic, tragic story about her aunt, was kept in the dark about the stillbirth (I.e the thing that could preclude Ashara amongst those in-the-know from the maternity questions re: Jon) and just assumed Wylla was the mother, & passed it along to Edric...

Agreed. Heck its possible Allyria is the not-so-still-after-all birth. And I agree it smells rather fishy to me to have the younger Daynes who don't actually know anything other than what they are told/have heard gossiped, telling a story that paints their house white as snow and is inconsistent both internally and with Ned's character and known actions.

[FrozenFire3]

Going off of the S+B=M, wouldn't both Jon and Mel be dragons old and new, assuming they both find out the truth about their heritage? They're both grown adults by Westerosi standards (and in Mel's case probably genuinely old...yay glamour), who won't discover their Targ heritage (because I don't feel like differentiating between bastard and trueborn blood in any instance right now) until later in life? Obviously they've always had the Targ genes (old) but wouldn't recognize themselves as Targs until the truth is revealed (new). Maybe I'm just being silly but this could make for a very juicy twist, especially if Mel has anything to do with healing/resurrecting Jon, in my opinion at least.

:agree: Targaryen blood for Targaryen blood. Fire: check. Blood: check. A stone hearted (definition courtesy of Sam) dragon could definitely be awakened. Not to mention the dramatic implications for Mel in discovering the enemy is none other but her sire.

[Foothill]

Just one thing I wanted to reiterate, which as almost certainly been mentioned before...

When Jojen and Meera come to Winterfell the swear by "ice and fire." Soon after, Bran remembers a talking to Ned about the KG, specifically Arthur Dayne.

I just found it funny that (all in close succession), ice and fire, KG, and Ned's sadness were all mentioned.

To me, that is just another hint to Jon's parents being Lyanna (ice) and Rhaegar (fire). And the honorable KG protecting their KING, and Ned's sadness that they had to die upholding their vows.

[Arya kiddin']

Just one thing I wanted to reiterate, which as almost certainly been mentioned before...

When Jojen and Meera come to Winterfell the swear by "ice and fire." Soon after, Bran remembers a talking to Ned about the KG, specifically Arthur Dayne.

I just found it funny that (all in close succession), ice and fire, KG, and Ned's sadness were all mentioned.

To me, that is just another hint to Jon's parents being Lyanna (ice) and Rhaegar (fire). And the honorable KG protecting their KING, and Ned's sadness that they had to die upholding their vows.

That's one way to think of it. Actually I believe it was so because they were both Reeds. IIRC, Bran asks Luwin about them, and Luwin tells him that Howland Reed was a companion of Neddard during RR. He along with Ned were the sole survivors of Tower of Joy.

[Ghost's Shadow]

That 'ice and fire' thing could sure point to Howland having learned a lot on the Isle of Faces, right?

I'd like to have a word with him. :lol:

G'morning.

[LadyMary]

And the epic struggle between Ice and Fire continues.....

http://www.toymania....1106_misers.jpg

What a conflict resolution letter between Rhaegar and Robert might sound like today:

To Whom it may concern:

Robert, my people have reached out to your people, but with negative results.

I am trying to settle this thing so it doesn't go to Court, because you know what my father will do if he has pay out, (he's not a fan of litigation).

Your Strategy and Operations Manager, Ed Stark is highly effective but doesn't communicate well, and Tully won't return my ravens.

Look, it's not like I stole L.S. from your company. She decided that Targaryen enterprises would be a better fit for her needs. I know what a loss she is, but I know you can replace her since you are always looking for top talent and opportunity, (especially opportunity).

If you like, I can help compensate by providing names and references to replace L. Stark. I know a lot of people and am happy to help you network.

I want to do what is best for everyone as accountability in leadership are the hallmark of Targaryen Enterprises.

Best Regards,

R. Targaryen, V.P. of "Visions," Central Division.

To whom it may concern:

Mr. Targaryen,

Our client, Robert Baratheon, is prepared to attend a settlement conference in regard to the matter of L.S., in one moon's turn at the offices of Tywin Lannister, Esq., Managing Partner of Lannister, Lannister and Lannister LLC.

We understand that you are currently out of the office and traveling, but we want to extend an invitation to your family to join you here - with our compliments. We have arranged for Mr. Lannister's driver, Gregor Clegane, to transport your lovely wife and children at our expense.

We look forward to seeing you in Casterly Rock and we feel confident that a satisfactory settlement can be reached.

Best regards,

M. Pycelle

Counsel

Lannister, Lannister and Lannister

[WhiteOwl18]

To whom it may concern:

Mr. Targaryen,

Our client, Robert Baratheon, is prepared to attend a settlement conference in regard to the matter of L.S., in one moon's turn at the offices of Tywin Lannister, Esq., Managing Partner of Lannister, Lannister and Lannister LLC.

We understand that you are currently out of the office and traveling, but we want to extend an invitation to your family to join you here - with our compliments. We have arranged for Mr. Lannister's driver, Gregor Clegane, to transport your lovely wife and children at our expense.

We look forward to seeing you in Casterly Rock and we feel confident that a satisfactory settlement can be reached.

Best regards,

M. Pycelle

Counsel

Lannister, Lannister and Lannister

:lmao: :bowdown:That is hilarious!

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

*snip

*snip

Dear Mr. Baratheon,

I have been notified by my new employer that you have begun proceedings against him in the matter of my rejecting your employment offer in favor of his.

The fact is, he offered me a better package and a position with an organization that is a far better fit for my talents than you and yours. Targaryen Enterprises has offered me security and hope for my future development. To be honest, all The Baratheon Company was offering was a chance to pour coffee for the boss and look the other way while others of far less intelligence and ability than I were promoted ahead of me.

To be sure, there is the matter of my father's quarrel with Mr. Targaryen's father, and the fact that they have dragged both of my brothers into it as well. However, I have the highest hopes that the upcoming conflict resolution meeting to take place at the Inn at Crossing Conference Center and Spa will bring this whole misunderstanding to a satisfying conclusion.

Having stated all of the above, it is my intent with this letter to inform that I would not take a the proferred position with your company if it were the last scullery in Westeros.

Yours very sincerely,

Lyanna Stark-Targaryen

Special Assistant to the Vice President

Director of Towers Division

[Ygrain]

Dear Mr. Baratheon,

I have been notified by my new employer that you have begun proceedings against him in the matter of my rejecting your employment offer in favor of his.

The fact is, he offered me a better package and a position with an organization that is a far better fit for my talents than you and yours. Targaryen Enterprises has offered me security and hope for my future development. To be honest, all The Baratheon Company was offering was a chance to pour coffee for the boss and look the other way while others of far less intelligence and ability than I were promoted ahead of me.

To be sure, there is the matter of my father's quarrel with Mr. Targaryen's father, and the fact that they have dragged both of my brothers into it as well. However, I have the highest hopes that the upcoming conflict resolution meeting to take place at the Inn at Crossing Conference Center and Spa will bring this whole misunderstanding to a satisfying conclusion.

Having stated all of the above, it is my intent with this letter to inform that I would not take a the proferred position with your company if it were the last scullery in Westeros.

Yours very sincerely,

Lyanna Stark-Targaryen

Special Assistant to the Vice President

Director of Towers Division

And now we know who is AA...

....

...

...

Absolutely Awesome!

[LadyMary]

Dear Mr. Baratheon,

I have been notified by my new employer that you have begun proceedings against him in the matter of my rejecting your employment offer in favor of his.

The fact is, he offered me a better package and a position with an organization that is a far better fit for my talents than you and yours. Targaryen Enterprises has offered me security and hope for my future development. To be honest, all The Baratheon Company was offering was a chance to pour coffee for the boss and look the other way while others of far less intelligence and ability than I were promoted ahead of me.

To be sure, there is the matter of my father's quarrel with Mr. Targaryen's father, and the fact that they have dragged both of my brothers into it as well. However, I have the highest hopes that the upcoming conflict resolution meeting to take place at the Inn at Crossing Conference Center and Spa will bring this whole misunderstanding to a satisfying conclusion.

Having stated all of the above, it is my intent with this letter to inform that I would not take a the proferred position with your company if it were the last scullery in Westeros.

Yours very sincerely,

Lyanna Stark-Targaryen

Special Assistant to the Vice President

Director of Towers Division

You win the Internet!!