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R+L = J v 62


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Something else I caught during my re-read of AGOT which at first I had totally ignored but then I thought about it carefully, it was right there in front of my face!Ned himself says clearly something that proves Lyanna wasn't abducted.I'm sure someone has pointed this out before.It's just because it really stuck with me and I can't believe I missed it all this time that is why I want to share it.

It might cause some "Duh!" comments but...What the hell :P

Somewhere in p. 221 Ned says to Arya.

"You have a wildness in you,child.'The wolf blood', my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch.It brought them both to an early grave."

At this point the reader knows Lyanna was abducted,probably raped and died a painful death at the hands of Rhaegar Targaryen.

But,taking this as the truth, why would Ned say it was her wolf blood that brought her to an early grave?What does her attitude and her wolf blood have anything to do with the fact that she got abducted and "tortured" at the hands of a so-called "monster"?

Yes, Brandon's wolf blood got him killed.That is known.He acted very fast and with little thought.But what did Lyanna ever do to cause her forceful "abduction"?

Ned says that exactly because Lyanna wasn't abducted.She ran off with Rhaegar at her own will and she came to an early grave because of that choice.

I find the wildling theory has more fun.

Wildling men will steal wildling women as a "marriage". Women have to oblige; if they don't they slit the man's throat.

Ygritte had to convince Jon that he has stolen her. In the end, he almost believed it.

The blood of the first men ran strong through Lyanna's veins. She was intended to marry Robert, whom she didn't like, so she managed to be stolen by Rhaegar, irrespectfull of R's former marriage. We don't have enough information, as usual, but I think she went much further than just follow him meekly.

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Are you channeling GRRM, now? I understand how desperate you are to avoid the conclusion that we all see coming, but really, you are not writing the story and you will need to accept it.

That same moron demonstrated what he did, in front of very many witnesses, using Oberyn's head as training aid. I really see no reason to suspect that Aegon survived the sack.

Really, can you understand what you read?

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And some moron smashed his head so that nobody could recognize him, just because. Tywin said so, didn't he? And Tywin is reliable: sometimes he even tells the truth to his own maester.

And the brutal treatment to Elia and Rhaenys was just for fun, as Tywin says.

Moreover, I think YG's purpose in the story is mainly to remind the reader that we're not done with Aegon.

I guess you mean what you write, but sometimes I doubt if you're trolling.

Wow are you serious? You annoy the living shit out of the members on this thread with these bullshit speculative arguments you continue to spit out that no one buys even for a second, and yet you have the nerve to talk about trolling? So you think the purpose of YG in the story is to remind readers that we're not done with Aegon? Haha ya no shit, he happens to be in Weseros right now claiming to be Aegon as he wages war for the Iron Throne! GRRM is not trying to tell us that after he's brought YG (who believes he's Aegon) into the picture, he's actually going to also bring in a completely different character that turns out to be the real Aegon. All GRRM is showing us is the idea of Aegon, what he represents, and the power a name can have based on people's perception of it, which is precisely what Varys 'power' speech to Tyrion was about. YG/Faegon literally shows us all these things even as a fake, there's really no need for a real Aegon whatsoever, you just refuse to accept that. YG will aslo clearly be used as an obstacle for Dany to overcome as she makes her way to Westeros.

You had the nerve to ask MT Lion, if he could understand what he reads, yet you've shown time and time again that you either lack the understanding of the author, or you purposely choose to ignore the author in order to make up these ridicluous scenarios in your head. As I said before with only two books left, GRRM is not gonna go through this whole YG story arc, reveal him to be a fake, reveal R+L=J, make whatever moves he's planning to make with Dany, and then decide to squeeze in a completely different fourth character who would actually turn out to be the real Aegon. That would be bad, sloppy, rushed, lazy, writing and GRRM is not a bad writer....Smh and you wanna talk about trolling. :rolleyes:

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Wow are you serious? You annoy the living shit out of the members on this thread with these bullshit speculative arguments you continue to spit out that no one buys even for a second, and yet you have the nerve to talk about trolling? So you think the purpose of YG in the story is to remind readers that we're not done with Aegon? Haha ya no shit, he happens to be in Weseros right now claiming to be Aegon as he wages war for the Iron Throne! GRRM is not trying to tell us that after he's brought YG (who believes he's Aegon) into the picture, he's actually going to also bring in a completely different character that turns out to be the real Aegon. All GRRM is showing us is the idea of Aegon, what he represents, and the power a name can have based on people's perception of it, which is precisely what Varys 'power' speech to Tyrion was about. YG/Faegon literally shows us all these things even as a fake, there's really no need for a real Aegon whatsoever, you just refuse to accept that. YG will aslo clearly be used as an obstacle for Dany to overcome as she makes her way to Westeros.

You had the nerve to ask MT Lion, if he could understand what he reads, yet you've shown time and time again that you either lack the understanding of the author, or you purposely choose to ignore the author in order to make up these ridicluous scenarios in your head. As I said before with only two books left, GRRM is not gonna go through this whole YG story arc, reveal him to be a fake, reveal R+L=J, make whatever moves he's planning to make with Dany, and then decide to squeeze in a completely different fourth character who would actually turn out to be the real Aegon. That would be bad, sloppy, rushed, lazy, writing and GRRM is not a bad writer....Smh and you wanna talk about trolling. :rolleyes:

:bowdown:
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Wow are you serious? You annoy the living shit out of the members on this thread with these bullshit speculative arguments you continue to spit out that no one buys even for a second, and yet you have the nerve to talk about trolling? So you think the purpose of YG in the story is to remind readers that we're not done with Aegon? Haha ya no shit, he happens to be in Weseros right now claiming to be Aegon as he wages war for the Iron Throne! GRRM is not trying to tell us that after he's brought YG (who believes he's Aegon) into the picture, he's actually going to also bring in a completely different character that turns out to be the real Aegon. All GRRM is showing us is the idea of Aegon, what he represents, and the power a name can have based on people's perception of it, which is precisely what Varys 'power' speech to Tyrion was about. YG/Faegon literally shows us all these things even as a fake, there's really no need for a real Aegon whatsoever, you just refuse to accept that. YG will aslo clearly be used as an obstacle for Dany to overcome as she makes her way to Westeros.

You had the nerve to ask MT Lion, if he could understand what he reads, yet you've shown time and time again that you either lack the understanding of the author, or you purposely choose to ignore the author in order to make up these ridicluous scenarios in your head. As I said before with only two books left, GRRM is not gonna go through this whole YG story arc, reveal him to be a fake, reveal R+L=J, make whatever moves he's planning to make with Dany, and then decide to squeeze in a completely different fourth character who would actually turn out to be the real Aegon. That would be bad, sloppy, rushed, lazy, writing and GRRM is not a bad writer....Smh and you wanna talk about trolling. :rolleyes:

:bowdown:

You've made me understand Tyrion much better, and I thank you for that much.

I wish you the best luck when you finish the high school. You'll need it.

Eta: On second thoughts, I doubt you can understand what I've written, so I'll elaborate just a bit, not much, it ain't worth it.

You lack analysis and, above all, the slightest imagination. Any outdated robot could do any simple task more quickly, more cheaply and more reliably than you can.

Are you able to do a complicated task?

A fiction work is an open door to let the reader's imagination fly, but first you need some imagination.

You're using up my time.

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You've made me understand Tyrion much better, and I thank you for that much.

I wish you the best luck when you finish the high school. You'll need it.

Eta: On second thoughts, I doubt you can understand what I've written, so I'll elaborate just a bit, not much, it ain't worth it.

You lack analysis and, above all, the slightest imagination. Any outdated robot could do any simple task more quickly, more cheaply and more reliably than you can.

Are you able to do a complicated task?

A fiction work is an open door to let the reader's imagination fly, but first you need some imagination.

You're using up my time.

Haha uh huh riiiiight, ya I'll keep that in mind. :rolleyes:

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I find the wildling theory has more fun.

Wildling men will steal wildling women as a "marriage". Women have to oblige; if they don't they slit the man's throat.

Ygritte had to convince Jon that he has stolen her. In the end, he almost believed it.

The blood of the first men ran strong through Lyanna's veins. She was intended to marry Robert, whom she didn't like, so she managed to be stolen by Rhaegar, irrespectfull of R's former marriage. We don't have enough information, as usual, but I think she went much further than just follow him meekly.

Hmmm yeah, that would make some sense but that is kinda like a tradition, surely nowhere near real abduction,rape,abuse etc.It's like a whole thing they do for fun.A mere task for the man to prove himself worthy.

But the point of Ned's speech at that point is to say that she wasn't taken by force,in the real sense of it.

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I've never seen (I might have forgotten) that the people from the North have the tradition of stealing women just like the Wildlings do, so I don't think there's much reason for Rhaegar to have thought that in order to take Lyanna he'd actually have to kidnap her at sword point. The North isn't that savage.

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I've never seen (I might have forgotten) that the people from the North have the tradition of stealing women just like the Wildlings do, so I don't think there's much reason for Rhaegar to have thought that in order to take Lyanna he'd actually have to kidnap her at sword point. The North isn't that savage.

I don't think finger meant that Northmen had the custom,but linked it to the Starks because the they have the blood of the first men.

But, yeah I believe what you say.I agree.I don't think Rhaegar would have done it for that.

Edit:forgot a word

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Sorry, I'm not making my case clear. I think Cersei's remarks show there was probably an investigation of Ned's story.

I don't see any need for this at all (but don't rule it out).

Its very simple.

Ned leaves Storms End (no hint of any bastard).

Ned turns up at Starfall.

Ned sends his bastard from Starfall to WInterfell.

Young lady of Starfall commits suicide.

Cersei doesn't need any investigation to do the math there. Nobody does.

King Bob doesn't think that way because he knows Ned wouldn't have slept with a noblewoman - thats far to big a deal - but hopes/guesses he slipped his standards for a moment with a commoner. Thats only a small thing after all, right?

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Okay, the good news is, the Ravens and "da Bears" had a great today.

The bad news is that Wun Wun's home team, the NY Giants did not, so expect a Blog from Martin later.

Associating Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun with anything as barbaric as the NFL is an insult. (And you wonder why there is so much violence in ASoIaF.)

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I don't see any need for this at all (but don't rule it out).

Its very simple.

Ned leaves Storms End (no hint of any bastard).

Ned turns up at Starfall.

Ned sends his bastard from Starfall to WInterfell.

Young lady of Starfall commits suicide.

You know that I will start poking that this, while possible, is unsupported as a piece of generally known info, right? :P

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You know that I will start poking that this, while possible, is unsupported as a piece of generally known info, right? :P

Well I don't think Corbon was saying this was the actual reality, only that it was a pretty plausible story for Ned to sell in order to cover up the truth...I could be wrong though. :)

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You know that I will start poking that this, while possible, is unsupported as a piece of generally known info, right? :P

Is it?

Everyone everywhere knows Ned didn't have a Bastard when he left Storms End.

Everyone, except Robert (and some very localised 'our own story' locals in an isolated place), it seems, nearly everywhere, thinks Jon's mother is Ashara.

Everyone everywhere knows, or has the opportunity to know, that Ned was at Starfall, due to returning Dawn, which is a pretty big deal.

Out of the blue, Jon turns up at Winterfell.

I think its a fair assumption that people who believe Ashara was Jon's mother think that Jon came out of Starfall, whether because they've put two and two together or because thats part of the commonly known info on his birth.

All I'm saying is that I don't see that this needs to have come from a properly investigation.

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