R+L = J v 62

[Ser Creighton]

Ser Creighton, you should read the reference you gave to HBO's wiki. We deal with the books, almost exclusively on this board, and in these forums. Hints can be given in the screenplay, but Orell is partially based on Varamyr, since Jon killed Orell before he took Ygritte. Anyway, in the books, oh, let me quote it:

I didn't say they were right I said they did it, which they did. You said they didn't. Well they did which just pointed out. And 95 percent of my post is about the books.

[Ser Creighton]

And, according to Tolkein wargs are wolf like creatures that carry goblins or orcs on their backs. And, further they appear like hyenas in the movie. All unrelated to GRRM's works. ;)

Actually not unrelated, as Martin has talked about where he got the names from. How he uses them is his own call, but the names themselves are historical references. We have seen both good and bad wargs but the wolves themselves are just wolves, they are not evil in their nature they are animals.

[Ser Creighton]

In the mystery knight Dunk says Bloodraven uses packs of wolves to hunt down his enemies and Ravens to spy for him. So yes he has in fact been associated in the books with using wolves and Ravens.

What's important to R+L=J is that Bloodraven has tied himself to the Starks for some reason, Dating back to at the latest the birth of Eddard Stark which he states he was there for.

"I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I say your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell."

He isn't speaking of things he saw through the trees unless the Starks have some weird habit never mentioned in the books of birthing everyone in front of a tree so that it is recorded. No he was there watching. He was part of Brans first dream.

So even before Lyanna was born he had been watching the Starks with some major importance. The Starks are important to him. Going back to at least Eddard. He demonstrated the ability to project himself all the way to Essos and to the land of always winter. He can enter the mind of a person, watch there dreams and be part of them.

He is in fact tied to using wolves. You think a Dire wolf that just happened to be pregnant with six pups just happened to appear the day Bran went out with his father? Dire Wolves who had not been seen south of the wall for over a 100 years? Then suddenly six pups for six kids for a family he has been watching heavily for at the very least decades.

Ghost constantly showing up when Jon tries to leave the wall and helping him to remain each time.

A guy who could of sent a 100 ravens at Jaime Lannister in the blink of an eye to protect Bran, let him fall instead.

A man who can be anywhere he wants to be at any time, also chose to let Jon get stabbed. You think he didn't know that was coming? Jon decided to leave again but this time Ghost didn't help him to stay. Ghost acted all crazy snapping at people, snarling at Jon. He had to lock him up. He watched Bran fall, and he watched Jon get stabbed cause he needed it to happen.

Why do you think Dany's dream suddenly went from don't wake the dragons to wake the dragons and she suddenly knew how to do it?

The guy watched Eddard come into the world, you don't think maybe he was there for Lyanna as well? You think maybe Rhaegar drew his interest as well? What do Rhaegar and Bran have in common? The Others, Azor Ahai is about thing, battling the Others and Jon, Dany, Bran, Bloodraven and Rhaegar are all connected to this. Jon and Dany both Dream of it, Bran is trying to stop them, Rhaegar tried to fulfill the prophecy more than once, and Bloodraven seems to be guiding the cause, connected to both Stark and Targaryen. Is he good or bad? I don't know, but you would have to be pretty desperate to do what he has done with that tree merging.

You want to know if Rhaegar had a dream about Lyanna or a vision, well here is one guy who has been watching the Starks since before she was born who can actually be part of your dreams and show you things in your dreams and make suggestions and leave a thought in your head. He can also make you forget things if he wants too, which he did to Bran. He also just happens to be Rhaegars great great great great uncle.

[bronnie]

In the mystery knight Dunk says Bloodraven uses packs of wolves to hunt down his enemies and Ravens to spy for him. So yes he has in fact been associated in the books with using wolves and Ravens.

What's important to R+L=J is that Bloodraven has tied himself to the Starks for some reason, Dating back to at the latest the birth of Eddard Stark which he states he was there for.

"I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I say your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell."

He isn't speaking of things he saw through the trees unless the Starks have some weird habit never mentioned in the books of birthing everyone in front of a tree so that it is recorded. No he was there watching. He was part of Brans first dream.

So even before Lyanna was born he had been watching the Starks with some major importance. The Starks are important to him. Going back to at least Eddard. He demonstrated the ability to project himself all the way to Essos and to the land of always winter. He can enter the mind of a person, watch there dreams and be part of them.

He is in fact tied to using wolves. You think a Dire wolf that just happened to be pregnant with six pups just happened to appear the day Bran went out with his father? Dire Wolves who had not been seen south of the wall for over a 100 years? Then suddenly six pups for six kids for a family he has been watching heavily for at the very least decades.

Ghost constantly showing up when Jon tries to leave the wall and helping him to remain each time.

A guy who could of sent a 100 ravens at Jaime Lannister in the blink of an eye to protect Bran, let him fall instead.

A man who can be anywhere he wants to be at any time, also chose to let Jon get stabbed. You think he didn't know that was coming? Jon decided to leave again but this time Ghost didn't help him to stay. Ghost acted all crazy snapping at people, snarling at Jon. He had to lock him up. He watched Bran fall, and he watched Jon get stabbed cause he needed it to happen.

Why do you think Dany's dream suddenly went from don't wake the dragons to wake the dragons and she suddenly knew how to do it?

The guy watched Eddard come into the world, you don't think maybe he was there for Lyanna as well? You think maybe Rhaegar drew his interest as well? What do Rhaegar and Bran have in common? The Others, Azor Ahai is about thing, battling the Others and Jon, Dany, Bran, Bloodraven and Rhaegar are all connected to this. Jon and Dany both Dream of it, Bran is trying to stop them, Rhaegar tried to fulfill the prophecy more than once, and Bloodraven seems to be guiding the cause, connected to both Stark and Targaryen. Is he good or bad? I don't know, but you would have to be pretty desperate to do what he has done with that tree merging.

You want to know if Rhaegar had a dream about Lyanna or a vision, well here is one guy who has been watching the Starks since before she was born who can actually be part of your dreams and show you things in your dreams and make suggestions and leave a thought in your head. He can also make you forget things if he wants too, which he did to Bran. He also just happens to be Rhaegars great great great great uncle.

Agreed!

Also there is this part of ADwD in Bran's last chapter :

"Once you have mastered your gifts, you may look where you will and see what the trees have seen, be it yesterday or last year or a thousand ages past. Men live their lives trapped in an eternal present, between the mists of memory and the sea of shadow that is all we know of the days to come. Certain moths live their whole lives in a day, yet to them that little span of time must seem as long as years and decades do to us. An oak may live three hundred years, a redwood tree three thousand. A weirwood will live forever if left undisturbed. To them seasons pass in the flutter of a moth's wing, and past, present and future are one. Nor will your sight be limited to your godswood. The singers carved eyes into their heart trees to awaken them, and those are the first eyes a new greenseer learns to use ... but in time you will see well beyond the trees themselves." "When?" Bran wanted to know. "in a year, or three, or ten. That i have not glimpsed. It will come in time, I promise you.

That makes me believe BR can see things through more than just weirwoods and ravens.

[Ghost's Shadow]

I've thought the same before: Rhaegar did a very odd thing there, kidnapping a highborn daughter at sword point. Definitely not his style, from what we know of him. We can only guess at what drove him, but if he had a prophetic (looking) dream... I don't really want to go all 'Jon is AAR/synonyms' here, but if he was needed in x years and not created, Rhaegar had to hurry (before she was married to someone else). Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[Ser Creighton]

I've thought the same before: Rhaegar did a very odd thing there, kidnapping a highborn daughter at sword point. Definitely not his style, from what we know of him. We can only guess at what drove him, but if he had a prophetic (looking) dream... I don't really want to go all 'Jon is AAR/synonyms' here, but if he was needed in x years and not created, Rhaegar had to hurry (before she was married to someone else). Desperate times call for desperate measures.

You know until Dance the three eyed crow had been downplayed somewhat by Martin. But he is the one person with the ability to make things unfold the way he needs them to that crosses all the generations that would be needed. He would know how to wake dragons because he can learn that from the trees. Ancient wierwoods are immortal they live for ever, he can learn about Azor Ahai through them, he can view just about anything on any country he wants. If he needs someone to win a joust, it would be easy for him to make it happen. If he needs to place a thought in someones head or make someone not worry about doing something, like deposing his father, he can do it on a whim.

We know he understands the blood lines of Greenseers, it's first man blood isn't it. He is half Blackwood a house in the river lands rich with first man blood and sworn to the old gods. Bran, Jon, all the Stark children come from one of the oldest first men blood lines in the country. Who is the other known prophetic family? The Targaryens, it would be a hell of mix putting the two most magical lines in the world together. He knew it was a powerful combination because he is just that mix, first man and Targaryen. It's also suggested he can see the future and Bran as well.

"The hour grows late."