Conversation with a Dying Man: the exact wording of Varys and Kevan's talk

[Alester Florent]

It seems that Vary's is essentially stating that House L is done, and while the lords squabble of your death, another power is rising that will sweep in and remove the decay. Keven just assumes Vary's is referring to Prince Aegon.

Kevan doesn't just assume Varys is referring to Aegon though. Varys is the first to mention Aegon, and by name.

[UnmaskedLurker]

Kevan doesn't just assume Varys is referring to Aegon though. Varys is the first to mention Aegon, and by name.

Yes, but Varys does not refer to Aegon Targaryen -- just Aegon who is raising banner at Storm's End. And YG's name is Aegon -- even if he is not "the" Aegon. Kevan assumes Varys is talking about "the" Aegon, and Varys simply never corrects Kevan. But Varys never affirmatively states that YG is the son of Rhaegar.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Kevan doesn't just assume Varys is referring to Aegon though. Varys is the first to mention Aegon, and by name.

I just read BB's excerpt, but I don't recall Vary's adding Targaryan at the end; he just said Aegon. The fact that Targaryan names don't seem common outside Targs, it seems that Kevan immediately assumed A. Targ once Vary's said Aegon.

Correct me if I am wrong though.

Yes, but Varys does not refer to Aegon Targaryen -- just Aegon who is raising banner at Storm's End. And YG's name is Aegon -- even if he is not "the" Aegon. Kevan assumes Varys is talking about "the" Aegon, and Varys simply never corrects Kevan. But Varys never affirmatively states that YG is the son of Rhaegar.

This.

[BalerionTheCat]

For me, the conversation could be interpreted as Varys, telling that one person, by the name of Aegon, has been shaped to take the role of Rhaegar dead son, and rule the kingdom.

I would also believe the plan was long in hatching. Since fAegon birth probably. Varys and Illirio having news of Aerys increasing madness and distrust of his son and counselors, sent Varys to KL. With the purpose to pour more distrust and bring the Targaryens rule to its end. Varys would have even made sure the true Aegon dies, in a way he could pretend differently afterward. The plan was then to put Illirio's son by Serra on the throne. She and Varys would be Blackfyres, still intend to conquer the 7K.

[Alester Florent]

Yes, but Varys does not refer to Aegon Targaryen -- just Aegon who is raising banner at Storm's End. And YG's name is Aegon -- even if he is not "the" Aegon. Kevan assumes Varys is talking about "the" Aegon, and Varys simply never corrects Kevan. But Varys never affirmatively states that YG is the son of Rhaegar.

I just read BB's excerpt, but I don't recall Vary's adding Targaryan at the end; he just said Aegon. The fact that Targaryan names don't seem common outside Targs, it seems that Kevan immediately assumed A. Targ once Vary's said Aegon.

Correct me if I am wrong though.

This.

I still find this argument to be something of a reach, indeed, a borderline ridiculous one. If Varys had instead referred to "Daenerys" without further qualification, would there be this argument over whether he's referring to Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen, mother of dragons, or some other random Daenerys? Are we expected to believe that any time a character is referred to by less than their full name and list of titles that in fact there's ambiguity over who is meant?

Young Griff's name is in any case Aegon Targaryen, since that's the name he's using. So even if he's a different person from Rhaegar's son he still has the same name. That's after all the point. What are the chances that his birth name was Aegon if he isn't Rhaegar's son? Would the plan have been scuppered because his parents called him Robert or Jaehaerys instead?

I just don't understand the line of reasoning. Why does he have to be using some impenetrable and abstruse double-meaning? Even if he had said explicitly "Aegon son of Rhaegar" I suspect people would still not believe him, and I think the context makes it pretty clear that "Aegon son of Rhaegar" is the person theoretically under discussion since that's who the Aegon at Storm's End is purporting to be. Why can't Varys just be lying?

[BalerionTheCat]

I still find this argument to be something of a reach, indeed, a borderline ridiculous one.

I suppose both Young Griff and Jon Con believe Aegon is Targaryen. But for plot's sake, GRRM couldn't have it explicit that Aegon is someone else. But Varys words with Kevan still make sense. Because he is telling who Aegon will be. Varys feels not like lying. He really believes the Blackfyre have the right to the throne.