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shewolfofthenorth

History of the "grasslands" includes a whopper of a detail

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Something to do with the Ifeqevron. Whether or not they are Chidlren of the Forest (I don't think they are) but the descriptions will probably sound similar even leading the maester to speculate, thus the red herring.

Agreed. In a past thread Ran showed particular interest in the Kingdom Ifequevron and the word's meaning. In the wiki, Ifequevron translates to "wood walkers" but on the website of the individual who created the Dothraki language, the word is the name for a deadly forest spider. So yes, red herrings abound regarding this region, which makes it all the more likely to be a place of significance.

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"Woods walkers" is what GRRM intends with it. The spider thing, I don't know exactly how that came up. I know someone asked David and apparently he told them it was the name for a forest spider... but GRRM's intention is that it refers to the Dothraki name for the people who were said to have lived there.



Remember, Peterson's Dothraki is for the HBO show. George is pleased to make use of it for his own work, but if ever there's a dispute between usage in the canon material and Peterson's Dothraki, the canon material wins. :)


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Will the Ifeqevron even be covered in the grasslands section? There's one on the Shivering Sea, but also one on Ib, so it doesn't seem like there are a whole lot of regions for that section to talk about.


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My guess is that this "whopper of a detail" somehow refers to the whole Azor Ahai/Price that was Promised stuff and that it will be taken as a confirmation, that Dany is Azor Ahai.



Since in my opinion the Dany-AzorAhai connection has been spelled out too much in the book to be true, this will be the Red Herring.


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My pet theory is that the Ifeqevron are decendants of the fleet of Brandon the Shipwright.

How would this work? I thought he sailed to the new world

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who/what are the Ifeqevron? is that in the books? can't remember ever seeing the word before.

In The Lands of Ice and Fire map collection, there is a large forest along the shores of the Shivering Sea, north of Vaes Dothrak and south of Ibben. The forest is called "Kingdoms of the Ifeqevron" on the map and "Kingdom of the Ifequevron" in the app.

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Agreed. In a past thread Ran showed particular interest in the Kingdom Ifequevron and the word's meaning. In the wiki, Ifequevron translates to "wood walkers" but on the website of the individual who created the Dothraki language, the word is the name for a deadly forest spider. So yes, red herrings abound regarding this region, which makes it all the more likely to be a place of significance.

Agreed. In a past thread Ran showed particular interest in the Kingdom Ifequevron and the word's meaning. In the wiki, Ifequevron translates to "wood walkers" but on the website of the individual who created the Dothraki language, the word is the name for a deadly forest spider. So yes, red herrings abound regarding this region, which makes it all the more likely to be a place of significance.

Deadly forest spider? Ice spiders?? I hope we get ice spiders at some point!

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How would this work? I thought he sailed to the new world

It hasn't actually been confirmed that there is such a continent ;-)

The theory is actually quite simple. Brandon the Shipwright took of from the West coast of Westeros and eventually did a Magellan. His fleet sailed around around the world, untill they reached the eastcoast of Essos. Now, at the time there hadn't been any contact with that part of Essos. We know for sure, since Corlys Velaryon was the first Westerosi known to have navigated the thousands isles. After hitting this for them unknown landmass, the survivors of the fleet sailed across the top of Essos, perhaps starting the legend of Azor Ahai (Their tales of the Last Hero would have sparked the belief in Azor Ahai). Due to an unknown cause (shipwreck, mutiny, pandemic, etc.), the fleet got stranded in the forest of the ifeqevron. These looked a lot like their lands back home and they started to live there.

The reason why no one has identified them yet as northern has to do with their isolationist nature and the fact that they are unrecognizable. These Northerners would still be full blood FM, they would still speak the Old Tongue and worship the Old Gods in the way the Northerners used to do (very bloody). All these makes it hard for them to be identified as decendants of Brandon's fleet.

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These hypothetical descendants couldn't possibly be full-blooded First Men, since it is highly unlikely that Brandon the Shipwright's fleet would have carried substantial numbers of women.

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It hasn't actually been confirmed that there is such a continent ;-)

The theory is actually quite simple. Brandon the Shipwright took of from the West coast of Westeros and eventually did a Magellan. His fleet sailed around around the world, untill they reached the eastcoast of Essos. Now, at the time there hadn't been any contact with that part of Essos. We know for sure, since Corlys Velaryon was the first Westerosi known to have navigated the thousands isles. After hitting this for them unknown landmass, the survivors of the fleet sailed across the top of Essos, perhaps starting the legend of Azor Ahai (Their tales of the Last Hero would have sparked the belief in Azor Ahai). Due to an unknown cause (shipwreck, mutiny, pandemic, etc.), the fleet got stranded in the forest of the ifeqevron. These looked a lot like their lands back home and they started to live there.

The reason why no one has identified them yet as northern has to do with their isolationist nature and the fact that they are unrecognizable. These Northerners would still be full blood FM, they would still speak the Old Tongue and worship the Old Gods in the way the Northerners used to do (very bloody). All these makes it hard for them to be identified as decendants of Brandon's fleet.

Look. Apart from all the reasons previously given as to why this theory is impossible (like the Ifequevron being right next to Ibben, which trades regularly with White Harbor, and that the hypothetical survivors would therefore quite easily have been able to hitch a ride back to Westeros), there is another mistake which now seems to be apparent in your theory.

And that is that you seem to seriously overestimate how long ago Brandon the Shipwright lived. He wasn't some ancient King of Winter from thousands of years ago.

Brandon the Shipwright appears quite recently in the chronological list of Stark Kings. Various clues in fact point to him having lived around 500-700 years ago.

So these weren't ancient Northmen. These were Northmen that lived only a few centuries before Aegon's Conquest. So it is likely that they knew the Common Tongue. And the origin of the Essosi legend of Azor Ahai would predate their impossible voyage around the world by about 4 and a half millenia.

So once again, this theory makes little sense.

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These hypothetical descendants couldn't possibly be full-blooded First Men, since it is highly unlikely that Brandon the Shipwright's fleet would have carried substantial numbers of women.

culturally of course, not about actual genetics;)

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I'm going with wyverns on this. Here's a bit of the sidebar on p285


In Septon Barth's Dragons, Wyrms, and Wyverns, he speculated that the bloodmages of Valyria used wyvern stock to create dragons.

Anything from Barth might qualify as a "whopper". Don't forget that whatever-it-was with the leathery wings flapping though the Sorrows in Tyrion's chapter in aDwD.

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I'm going with wyverns on this. Here's a bit of the sidebar on p285

Anything from Barth might qualify as a "whopper". Don't forget that whatever-it-was with the leathery wings flapping though the Sorrows in Tyrion's chapter in aDwD.

Wasn't that Drogon?

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I think it means that its a large section, which it is, not that there was any huge secrets involved.

That doesn't sound anything like the tweet we are discussing:

"@westerosorg: The history of the "Grasslands" includes a whopper of a detail... or a whopper of a red herring... #GRRM #WorldOfIceAndFire #PtwP #ASoIaF"

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