From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa XXI

[brashcandy]

Happy New Year to everyone :)

I don't know if any of our readers have been checking out the recent Meereenese Blot essays on Tyrion's arc, but as I was reading the final part where the writer (Adam Feldman) looks in detail at Tyrion's relationship with Penny, and how her innocence is used to dramatize the developing conflict Tyrion faces between a path of conscience and principles or ruthlessly investing in the game of thrones, I was struck by the potential value of a comparison between their relationship and the one Sansa shares with Sweetrobin.

Both Sansa and Tyrion have to take charge of these innocents in different ways throughout AFFC and ADWD respectively, and as Feldman argues that Penny's fate will reveal a great deal of where Tyrion's priorities are in the game, the same can be said about Sansa and SR, especially in light of the very stark details LF lays out at the end. But already, by the very nature of the interaction between the two pairings, we can glean important information about the decisions Sansa and Tyrion might make in the future. While, as Feldman examines in his essay, Tyrion spends much of ADWD resisting Penny's romantic advances and finding himself increasingly frustrated by her naivete and docility, we see Sansa embracing her role as a mother to Sweetrobin, and finding ways to deal with his behaviour that do not compromise the child's positive growth despite the frustration she feels when he's being recalcitrant or stubborn.

A precise parallel incident that shows Martin wanted to draw a deliberate contrast is the "unwanted kiss" scene between Tyrion and Penny which mirrors the one shared by Sansa and SR in AFFC.

“That game won’t do,” Tyrion told her, gritting his teeth. “Sorry. I don’t know what game—”

“I do.” Penny kissed him.

It was an awkward kiss, rushed, clumsy. But it took him utterly by surprise. His hands jerked up and grabbed hold of her shoulders to shove her away. Instead he hesitated, then pulled her closer, gave her a squeeze. Her lips were dry, hard, closed up tighter than a miser’s purse. A small mercy, thought Tyrion. This was nothing he had wanted. He liked Penny, he pitied Penny, he even admired Penny in a way, but he did not desire her. He had no wish to hurt her, though; the gods and his sweet sister had given her enough pain. So he let the kiss go on, holding her gently by the shoulders. His own lips stayed firmly shut. The Selaesori Qhoran rolled and shuddered around them.

Finally she pulled back an inch or two. Tyrion could see his own reflection shining in her eyes. Pretty eyes, he thought, but he saw other things as well. A lot of fear, a little hope … but not a bit of lust. She does not want me, no more than I want her.

And Sansa/SR:

Before she could summon the servants, however, Sweetrobin threw his skinny arms around her and kissed her. It was a little boy’s kiss, and clumsy. Everything Robert Arryn did was clumsy. If I close my eyes I can pretend he is the Knight of Flowers. Ser Loras had given Sansa Stark a red rose once, but he had never kissed her . . . and no Tyrell would ever kiss Alayne Stone. Pretty as she was, she had been born on the wrong side of the blanket.

As the boy’s lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak.

It made no matter. That day was done, and so was Sansa.

A major difference between Sweetrobin and Penny is that while the former is yet still a child with an innocent crush on Sansa, Penny is a woman grown, with legitimate desires that seem to have been awakened by Tyrion's presence. Sansa's response to SR is to think about another kiss she shared with Sandor Clegane, revealing her interest in the former sworn shield, and she understands the childish impulse behind SR's gesture, promising that he can kiss her again later if he gets out of bed. Tyrion's response is to use his relationship with Sansa as a barrier to Penny getting any ideas:

When she lowered her head, he took her under the chin and raised it up again. “We cannot play that game, my lady.” Above the thunder boomed, close at hand now.

“I never meant … I never kissed a boy before, but … I only thought, what if we drown, and I … I …”

“It was sweet,” lied Tyrion, “but I am married. She was with me at the feast, you may remember her. Lady Sansa.”

“Was she your wife? She … she was very beautiful …”

And false. Sansa, Shae, all my women … Tysha was the only one who ever loved me. Where do whores go? “A lovely girl,” said Tyrion, “and we were joined beneath the eyes of gods and men. It may be that she is lost to me, but until I know that for a certainty I must be true to her.”

“I understand.” Penny turned her face away from his.

My perfect woman, Tyrion thought bitterly. One still young enough to believe such blatant lies.

Not only is Tyrion's relationship with Penny under the microscope, but we can glimpse the general dysfunction with regard to the other women he has known closely. Lying to Penny gets him off the hook for the moment, but it also establishes the beginning of an unhealthy dynamic that fits into the tradition of Tyrion's other relationships. As Feldman points out in his analysis, now that Tyrion is facing the possibility of someone genuinely caring for him, he rejects it and clings to his Tysha ideal. As noted in the TWOW spoiler, Martin is continuing to explore the romantic feelings of Penny for Tyrion, and this adds another point in support of the argument that any romantic plotline is well and truly over for him and Sansa. However, it's possible that a new conflict could arise between Tyrion's ruthless warmongering and gameplaying as Feldman posits (see his essays for the breakdown), and Sansa's efforts towards peace, which I explore in my recent motherhood essay.

[Milady of York]

I did find Addam Feldman’s series of essays very interesting, and apart from what you’ve noted already, two other points grabbed my attention: one, on his analysis of Tyrion’s reaction to Penny’s first kiss his thoughts are insightful, but he seems to not have noticed one contradictory detail:

“That game won’t do,” Tyrion told her, gritting his teeth. “Sorry. I don’t know what game—”

“I do.” Penny kissed him.

It was an awkward kiss, rushed, clumsy. But it took him utterly by surprise. His hands jerked up and grabbed hold of her shoulders to shove her away. Instead he hesitated, then pulled her closer, gave her a squeeze. Her lips were dry, hard, closed up tighter than a miser’s purse. A small mercy, thought Tyrion. This was nothing he had wanted. He liked Penny, he pitied Penny, he even admired Penny in a way, but he did not desire her. He had no wish to hurt her, though; the gods and his sweet sister had given her enough pain. So he let the kiss go on, holding her gently by the shoulders. His own lips stayed firmly shut. (TYRION IX)

There’s a noteworthy contrast to be observed between the Imp’s arms pulling her closer as she kisses him—an unconscious and uncontrolled action—with his keeping his mouth shut—a conscious and controlled action—and given that Addam is speaking of how conflicted the dwarf is about Penny’s falling in love with him, I had expected this would be highlighted, for it represents that conflict in a nutshell.

He also says that:

Tyrion has wanted to be loved for so long. But now that someone seems to be genuinely falling for him, he doesn’t want it (or doesn’t recognize it).

I would argue that it’s that he doesn't want it, and not that he doesn't recognise it. His actions and thoughts give the impression that he is fully aware that Penny is falling for him, but since she's not what he wants, he’s resisting it. You mentioned that he’s using his ideal of Tysha as an emotional shield, and Sansa as an outward excuse, a reminiscent of his dysfunctional relationships with women, and to that I’d add that his reaction to the second time Penny kisses him also has this unhealthy component, as this time the woman he’s using as a shield is Shae, according to a fan report from the reading of the Tyrion II sample chapter from TWOW, which stated this:

And as he remembers his father remaining above the fighting at the Green Fork, Penny kisses him.

Tyrion is enraged. He rants at her about the slaughter of the battlefield and the reality about to invade her innocent world. Penny apologizes, saying she’s frightened. But this echo of Shae makes matters worse.

Second, from Feldman’s analysis of the Innocence vs. Cynicism conflict, this quote caught my attention as it might be relevant for comparative purposes in relation to Sansa:

Sometimes he envied the girl all her pretty little dreams. She reminded him of Sansa Stark, the child bride he had wed and lost. Despite the horrors Penny had suffered, she remained somehow trusting. She should know better. She is older than Sansa. And she’s a dwarf. She acts as if she has forgotten that, as if she were highborn and fair to look upon, instead of a slave in a grotesquerie. At night Tyrion would oft hear her praying. A waste of words. If there are gods to listen, they are monstrous gods who torment us for their sport. Who else would make a world like this, so full of bondage, blood, and pain? Who else would shape us as they have? Sometimes he wanted to slap her, shake her, scream at her, anything to wake her from her dreams. No one is going to save us, he wanted to scream at her. The worst is yet to come. (TYRION XI)

Tyrion’s speech on the gods and their cruelty reminds me of Sandor’s speech to Sansa on the rooftop of Maegor’s Holdfast:

“Aren’t you afraid? The gods might send you down to some terrible hell for all the evil you’ve done.”

“What evil?” He laughed. “What gods?”

“The gods who made us all.”

“All?” he mocked. “Tell me, little bird, what kind of god makes a monster like the Imp, or a halfwit like Lady Tanda’s daughter? If there are gods, they made sheep so wolves could eat mutton, and they made the weak for the strong to play with.”

“True knights protect the weak.”

He snorted. “There are no true knights, no more than there are gods. If you can’t protect yourself, die and get out of the way of those who can. Sharp steel and strong arms rule this world, don’t ever believe any different.”

But there’s a difference: Tyrion wants to protect Penny, so he tells himself, through lying to her, giving her false consolation, withholding the truth from her, tricking her, etc., all dishonest methods that don’t exactly contribute to Penny gaining any more realistic outlook on things, whilst Sandor’s “wake up” speeches had the intention of giving Sansa a means to survive from the very start, when he advised her to give Joffrey what he wanted, and he was frank with her. Sandor understands that Sansa’s naïveté can be fatal for her in that nest of vipers where she’s entrapped, and likewise Tyrion believes that Penny’s naïveté is unhelpful and harmful, but a lot of that is also a survival method that has so far worked for her given her circumstances and lack of monetary and social privileges, as she has learnt to please the “big people” to go unnoticed and unmolested, which is not so different from Sansa learning to please the Lannisters to live as untroubled as a hostage could, whereas Tyrion is showing here his privileged upbringing. I see that Feldman has noticed that as well:

Servility in general, and Penny’s servility in particular, are the focus of Tyrion’s final internal monologue in ADWD. Some have argued that Tyrion became a slave so he could develop empathy for those less fortunate than him — but I see very little empathy here.

Another thing to note is that both Sansa and the Imp’s morality tests are going to take place whilst they both are at their lowest point socially, both totally destitute: he as a runaway slave and she as a bastard. But whilst Sweetrobin could be Sansa’s first and thus far greatest morality test, Penny isn’t the first one for Tyrion, as in a way he did have two innocent children testing his boundaries already, Myrcella and Tommen, and his thoughts on them don’t bode well for his chances of passing the Penny test successfully.

[Winterfell Resident]

That is fantastic the way all your information is organized.

Can you do that for all of the Starks? :drool:

[brashcandy]

It's with great pleasure that I get to announce that today is the second anniversary of the Pawn to Player threads - the same date two years ago when the first reread thread was launched. It has certainly been the defining experience of my time on the Westeros forum, and without a doubt it's Sansa that I am most invested in for the remainder of Martin's magnum opus. Rethinking Sansa will always be a vital task, and at the heart of this dynamic exercise is not simply the search for answers or consensus. Rather, it's about the profound appreciation for one character's journey and development: a character we see as as uniquely important in Martin's universe. Whether it's done in this thread or elsewhere, I urge that the challenge of rethinking Sansa (and other characters) is one we should all support.

I hope we can keep a celebratory focus and a lighthearted tone for the day, so I'll be suggesting some topics later on that only require you have an affinity for Sansa's story (and the PTP) to answer :)

Thanks to all of you who have contributed to making this thread a hallmark of Sansa study, and a home away from home.

[Mladen]

Well, my dear ladies of PTP, I would like to congratulate you on two years of pure success in analysis. This thread will always have a special place in my heart given that I started my writing steps on this thread (January last year :)), and I will always be rather emotional and defensive when it comes to all of you and your work. Congrats on many great projects that influenced many readers, and have changed the stereotypical view on Sansa.

So, :cheers: to all of you who have made this thread so unforgettable and unique... May you have many more brilliant projects, and may we all have more time enjoying your work...

Love,

Your biggest fan :)

[Black Crow]

Many congratulations from Heresy, which also celebrated its second birthday a couple of months back.

As I promised Brash, I have a suitable gift...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/102266-heresy-87/

In one of those blinding moments of clarity we suddenly realised that a major influence on ASoIaF is not LOTR, but its contemporary: The Chronicles of Narnia; it as if you like a "Dark Narnia" - where do you think the "land of always winter" came from?

As to Sansa, is she one of the four Pevensie children - Susan?

[Lummel]

Sansa as Susan Pevensie? It's bad news for her if that's so - poor girl!

But anyway, today, the 16^th of January 2014 the ongoing Sansa project that started with the Sansa Reread and continues in From Pawn to Player will officially enter the terrible twos and it seems appropriate to say a few words and maybe even to raise a glass, or perhaps to bake an extra big lemoncake to mark the occasion: the second anniversary of a unique and special corner in the world of Westeros.

There are many threads, fewer series, but this is the only one that has managed to be consistently inventive, fresh and dedicated to one character.

I managed to miss the Daenerys reread lead by Alexia (who I still miss) and my Dog's name is Daenerys, so the Sansa reread was the direct inspiration for the approach we took in Learning to Lead which has now has become the accepted way to run a reread project. What I mean by this is clear if you have ever looked at the older rereads. There the chapter introductions are short, sometimes only offering a brief overview of the content of the chapter, there is little, sometimes no analysis offered and, I think this isn't coincidental, there are few participants in those threads.

The big change that the Sansa reread has made widespread to how we reread ASOIAF on this board is a commitment to analysis, raising questions, looking to the text to back up interpretation and all of this engages readers and makes us into participants. What it alone demonstrated was that it was possible to through commitment and through having a supportive and appreciative group of participants was that you could also complete a character's arc. While this sounds simple enough actually getting those posts out there despite real life, despite any unsupportive opinion is an achievement. Not every reread thread that starts manages that.

Then something strange happened. It is a feature of the fandom that certain characters have groups of supporters: Arya, Stannis, even Tyrion. But none of these has managed the progression from fanbase to thread series which From Pawn to Player has achieved. To my mind this series offers, as do rereads too, an escape from the relentless reincarnation of popular thread topics in which the same arguments supported by the same narrow band of incidents remembered from the text are repeated by different people. Instead there is the nirvana of a focus on the core aspects of ASOIAF of character, relationships and structure that are easily overlooked. Though of course coming from the broad base of the reread, From Pawn to Player has provided and spawned plenty of rich discussion of incidents as well.

As a bonus From Pawn to Player has set the Gold Standard for organising and referencing within a thread. Best organised thread in Westeros may not be the most exciting accolade but it certainly makes exploring the topic so much easier for every new reader to find out for themselves what all the fuss has been about!

So let's raise a glass to a corner of the internet that is forever Sansa!

[Woman of War]

Maybe the fans of other characters are not as infatuated with their object of worshipping and don't need a secluded club of members only.

:D :commie:

I'm out of here

[Houndbird]

Sansa as Susan Pevensie? It's bad news for her if that's so - poor girl!

But anyway, today, the 16^th of January 2014 the ongoing Sansa project that started with the Sansa Reread and continues in From Pawn to Player will officially enter the terrible twos and it seems appropriate to say a few words and maybe even to raise a glass, or perhaps to bake an extra big lemoncake to mark the occasion: the second anniversary of a unique and special corner in the world of Westeros.

There are many threads, fewer series, but this is the only one that has managed to be consistently inventive, fresh and dedicated to one character.

I managed to miss the Daenerys reread lead by Alexia (who I still miss) and my Dog's name is Daenerys, so the Sansa reread was the direct inspiration for the approach we took in Learning to Lead which has now has become the accepted way to run a reread project. What I mean by this is clear if you have ever looked at the older rereads. There the chapter introductions are short, sometimes only offering a brief overview of the content of the chapter, there is little, sometimes no analysis offered and, I think this isn't coincidental, there are few participants in those threads.

The big change that the Sansa reread has made widespread to how we reread ASOIAF on this board is a commitment to analysis, raising questions, looking to the text to back up interpretation and all of this engages readers and makes us into participants. What it alone demonstrated was that it was possible to through commitment and through having a supportive and appreciative group of participants was that you could also complete a character's arc. While this sounds simple enough actually getting those posts out there despite real life, despite any unsupportive opinion is an achievement. Not every reread thread that starts manages that.

Then something strange happened. It is a feature of the fandom that certain characters have groups of supporters: Arya, Stannis, even Tyrion. But none of these has managed the progression from fanbase to thread series which From Pawn to Player has achieved. To my mind this series offers, as do rereads too, an escape from the relentless reincarnation of popular thread topics in which the same arguments supported by the same narrow band of incidents remembered from the text are repeated by different people. Instead there is the nirvana of a focus on the core aspects of ASOIAF of character, relationships and structure that are easily overlooked. Though of course coming from the broad base of the reread, From Pawn to Player has provided and spawned plenty of rich discussion of incidents as well.

As a bonus From Pawn to Player has set the Gold Standard for organising and referencing within a thread. Best organised thread in Westeros may not be the most exciting accolade but it certainly makes exploring the topic so much easier for every new reader to find out for themselves what all the fuss has been about!

Here here. I just love this thread. Happy 2nd anniversary and hope it continues for many more

So let's raise a glass to a corner of the internet that is forever Sansa!

[Ragnorak]

Congratulations on your second anniversary. I suppose that makes the PtP thread a Capricorn which is appropriate since Capricorns are supposed to be all about hard work. It takes a good deal of time, dedication. and investment of energy to put a series like this together and keep it going with fresh ideas and insights. You all deserve accolades for the efforts you've put forth to create and maintain a place like this. It is good that you can see the fruits of your labors in the people that have discovered and enjoyed your Sansa analysis over the past two years.

A Song of Ice and Fire is a rare work in terms of its realistic characters that continually ring true even under psychoanalytical scrutiny. Sansa is rarer still in the fantasy genre. I can't recall another rite of passage story with a female character seeking to embody the more traditional feminine role. Fantasy typically gives us the apprentice mage or chainmail bikini (not that I object to the chainmail bikini, it was a brilliant smith that made a suit of armor more um... effective the less it covered ;) .) This usual motif of the fantasy genre toys with the reader's expectations to anticipate Sansa to either obtain a more objective power (magic or steel) or play the role of the damsel in distress awaiting rescue. Neither is the case and the result is a very subtle arc that really requires a reader to take a fresh look at Sansa from the beginning as well as consciously note those preconceived expectations.

The PtP series has done an excellent job of that as well as bringing in other related interests that apply-- courtly romance, Beauty and the Beast motifs, mythology, etc. It has been most enjoyable and educational, and a joy to be a part of. The Sansa analysis in comparing her to other characters as well as her overall role in the story has also contributed tremendously to a greater understanding of the series as a whole. Truly wonderful work and Happy Birthday! :cheers:

[E-Ro]

Happy anniversary ptp threads!

Love what you guys do.

[Winter's Knight]

Happy anneversairy PTP! Here's to another good year of lemoncakes and loqacious analysis.

[Milady of York]

So here we are, on our second anniversary, and for once I am at a loss for words to express my profound satisfaction with the PtP’s achievements and contributions to the board at large. I could recount all the good things learnt and the good things discovered, the lovely people met and the long discussions enjoyed throughout these years, but then again words aren’t enough to sum up such a vast spectrum of experiences on this site. Simply, there’s no other ASOIAF community I want to be part of but the Pawn to Player threads, and that speaks volumes about the amiable environment, the constant intellectual challenge and the quality of discussions here, all of which has been attained through the hard work of all the ladies and gentlemen participating, who have my gratitude and admiration.

Many thanks to everyone for the congratulations on the second anniversary of the PtP threads!

[brashcandy]

Thanks for the well wishes and lovely comments folks!

@ Black Crow - Very interesting thoughts concerning Narnia. I haven't read the books, but I do remember us having a brief discussion on it where tze made some provocative arguments. How have the heretics been developing the parallels, because for Sansa's role it might have value in considering her as a Winter Queen candidate, something which you have alluded to in the past as complimentary to Jon's station. I'm reposting tze's thoughts below:

The Stark/Lannister conflict always reminded me of an inverted Narnia---in Narnia, forces aligned with the lion Aslan opposed forces aligned with the winter-associated (and wolf-associated, via the talking wolf Maugrim) White Witch, the former serving as the "heroes" and the latter serving as the "villains". In ASOIAF, forces aligned with the lion (Lannister) opposed forces aligned with the winter-and-wolf-associated House of Stark, with the former serving as "villains" and the latter serving as the "heroes" (yes, I realize the heroes/villains divide is far clearer in Narnia than in Westeros, but I think we can safely say that the Starks are far more sympathetic to readers than the White Witch and the Lannisters are far more sinister to readers than Aslan). In Narnia, the White Witch was a single figure, a single "Queen of Winter"---but I think it's worth noting that we have multiple "lions" in Westeros, and multiple "sorcerer/sorceress" figures among the House of Stark.

In the crypt incident I quoted upthread, there were five Stark siblings present (Rickon apparently not yet having been born). Robb is now dead, which leaves four "living" (or resurrected, depending) Starks present in that scene: Jon, Sansa, Bran, and Arya. There are certain parallels between these four Starks and the four Pevensie siblings---Jon as Peter, Sansa as Susan, Bran as Edmund, and Arya as Lucy. And the interesting thing about Narnia was that the four Pevensie siblings all became Kings and Queens of Narnia (two Kings, one of them the High King, and two Queens---not one King with one prince/two princesses). Thus far, we've had Jon associated with a King, and both Sansa and Arya associated with Queenship. Bran is still associated with being a prince, but that could change. So perhaps we won't have a "single" King or Queen of Winter, but rather, multiple Kings/Queens?

And with Sansa, the Narnia parallels are interesting because, again, of the inversion factor. Susan Pevensie started out as a Queen of Narnia, but then "cast off" Narnia because she became interested in romance, material wealth, etc. This transformation meant that, when her three siblings eventually returned to Narnia, she could not come with them. (I know C.S. Lewis stated that he always thought she made it to Narnia eventually, but come on. The whole Susan issue always rather pissed me off.) Sansa's plot arc has basically been the inverse of Susan---Sansa starts out obsessed with romance and material things, then she progresses into a more mature figure more heavily associated with her siblings and more wholly associated with the aspects of a 'true' Queen. So Sansa's plot arc could be structured to have her join her siblings as Queen of Winter in the end, embracing a Queenship role where Susan Pevensie cast hers off.

With respect to Sansa/Susan, and as tze suggested above, there's the problematic handling of her maturity and separation from Narnia, which many have seen as an indictment of sorts on adult femininity. This seems very relevant to a discussion on how Martin has developed Sansa's character in ASOIAF, where I would argue we're seeing a much more positive exploration of female sexuality and agency, one that is integral to considerations of the power she will hold in the future.

[brashcandy]

I promised earlier some light topics to share your appreciation for Sansa. Feel free to answer just a few or all of them :)

1. Favourite topics to discuss in the PTP

2. PTP analyses you really enjoyed reading

3. Favourite Sansa chapter or scene

4. Favourite PTP crackpot (see resources for the three options)

5. Favourite Sansa literary parallel

6. Your head canon Sansa looks like...

7. Favourite Sansa statement or phrase

8. Most interesting Sansa foreshadowing in your opinion

9. When and/or why did you come to love Sansa

10. Favourite Sansa interaction (with another character) in the novels

[Devaki Khanna]

Happy New Year to everyone :)

I don't know if any of our readers have been checking out the recent Meereenese Blot essays on Tyrion's arc, but as I was reading the final part where the writer (Adam Feldman) looks in detail at Tyrion's relationship with Penny, and how her innocence is used to dramatize the developing conflict Tyrion faces between a path of conscience and principles or ruthlessly investing in the game of thrones, I was struck by the potential value of a comparison between their relationship and the one Sansa shares with Sweetrobin.

Both Sansa and Tyrion have to take charge of these innocents in different ways throughout AFFC and ADWD respectively, and as Feldman argues that Penny's fate will reveal a great deal of where Tyrion's priorities are in the game, the same can be said about Sansa and SR, especially in light of the very stark details LF lays out at the end. But already, by the very nature of the interaction between the two pairings, we can glean important information about the decisions Sansa and Tyrion might make in the future. While, as Feldman examines in his essay, Tyrion spends much of ADWD resisting Penny's romantic advances and finding himself increasingly frustrated by her naivete and docility, we see Sansa embracing her role as a mother to Sweetrobin, and finding ways to deal with his behaviour that do not compromise the child's positive growth despite the frustration she feels when he's being recalcitrant or stubborn.

A precise parallel incident that shows Martin wanted to draw a deliberate contrast is the "unwanted kiss" scene between Tyrion and Penny which mirrors the one shared by Sansa and SR in AFFC.

“That game won’t do,” Tyrion told her, gritting his teeth. “Sorry. I don’t know what game—”

“I do.” Penny kissed him.

It was an awkward kiss, rushed, clumsy. But it took him utterly by surprise. His hands jerked up and grabbed hold of her shoulders to shove her away. Instead he hesitated, then pulled her closer, gave her a squeeze. Her lips were dry, hard, closed up tighter than a miser’s purse. A small mercy, thought Tyrion. This was nothing he had wanted. He liked Penny, he pitied Penny, he even admired Penny in a way, but he did not desire her. He had no wish to hurt her, though; the gods and his sweet sister had given her enough pain. So he let the kiss go on, holding her gently by the shoulders. His own lips stayed firmly shut. The Selaesori Qhoran rolled and shuddered around them.

Finally she pulled back an inch or two. Tyrion could see his own reflection shining in her eyes. Pretty eyes, he thought, but he saw other things as well. A lot of fear, a little hope … but not a bit of lust. She does not want me, no more than I want her.

And Sansa/SR:

Before she could summon the servants, however, Sweetrobin threw his skinny arms around her and kissed her. It was a little boy’s kiss, and clumsy. Everything Robert Arryn did was clumsy. If I close my eyes I can pretend he is the Knight of Flowers. Ser Loras had given Sansa Stark a red rose once, but he had never kissed her . . . and no Tyrell would ever kiss Alayne Stone. Pretty as she was, she had been born on the wrong side of the blanket.

As the boy’s lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak.

It made no matter. That day was done, and so was Sansa.

A major difference between Sweetrobin and Penny is that while the former is yet still a child with an innocent crush on Sansa, Penny is a woman grown, with legitimate desires that seem to have been awakened by Tyrion's presence. Sansa's response to SR is to think about another kiss she shared with Sandor Clegane, revealing her interest in the former sworn shield, and she understands the childish impulse behind SR's gesture, promising that he can kiss her again later if he gets out of bed. Tyrion's response is to use his relationship with Sansa as a barrier to Penny getting any ideas:

When she lowered her head, he took her under the chin and raised it up again. “We cannot play that game, my lady.” Above the thunder boomed, close at hand now.

“I never meant … I never kissed a boy before, but … I only thought, what if we drown, and I … I …”

“It was sweet,” lied Tyrion, “but I am married. She was with me at the feast, you may remember her. Lady Sansa.”

“Was she your wife? She … she was very beautiful …”

And false. Sansa, Shae, all my women … Tysha was the only one who ever loved me. Where do whores go? “A lovely girl,” said Tyrion, “and we were joined beneath the eyes of gods and men. It may be that she is lost to me, but until I know that for a certainty I must be true to her.”

“I understand.” Penny turned her face away from his.

My perfect woman, Tyrion thought bitterly. One still young enough to believe such blatant lies.

Not only is Tyrion's relationship with Penny under the microscope, but we can glimpse the general dysfunction with regard to the other women he has known closely. Lying to Penny gets him off the hook for the moment, but it also establishes the beginning of an unhealthy dynamic that fits into the tradition of Tyrion's other relationships. As Feldman points out in his analysis, now that Tyrion is facing the possibility of someone genuinely caring for him, he rejects it and clings to his Tysha ideal. As noted in the TWOW spoiler, Martin is continuing to explore the romantic feelings of Penny for Tyrion, and this adds another point in support of the argument that any romantic plotline is well and truly over for him and Sansa. However, it's possible that a new conflict could arise between Tyrion's ruthless warmongering and gameplaying as Feldman posits (see his essays for the breakdown), and Sansa's efforts towards peace, which I explore in my recent motherhood essay.

Tyrion's dysfunctional relationships with women--and with most people--relate to his dysfunctional relationship with his father. Tywin has never forgiven him for Joanna's death--I wonder if Tywin is trying to absolve himself of guilt in this situation by blaming a baby. After all, Tyrion did not ask to be born; Tywin and Joanna decided to have a third child. And Cersei has followed Tywin's lead, especially in this. Although Genna sees Tyrion as another Tywin, has she any fond maternal feelings for him? We don't know. The only people in his family with whom he has a good relationship are his uncle Tygett, who is dead; his uncle Gerion, who has disappeared at sea and his brother Jaime, the last of whom lied to him at Tywin's behest.

It is his father who taught him--via the rape of Tysha--that he did not deserve to be loved; he could only buy love with his rank and wealth. Hence his visits to brothels--did Tywin hope to get rid of him by encouraging an exposure to STDs, a violent environment, etc?

Although Tyrion has been instructed in the faith of the Seven, he has not been encouraged to develop any piety or belief in a life beyond the material plane. Hence his inability to overcome the manner of his conditioning by his father. He might have physically shot Tywin with a crossbow, but Tywin has made him what he is ...

Sansa, compared to Tyrion, might not have had a very worldly-wise father, but she did receive a lot of unconditional love as a child, which enables her to nurture Sweetrobin, and empathise with others . There is also her reliance on prayer, which is nothing other than finding sufficient space and time to be quiet and still, and allow positive ideas, new ideas to reach you. Hence her ability to quietly and courageously cope with what life throws at her, whether it's Lannister brutality in KL or Petyr's plots in the Vale.

[Devaki Khanna]

I promised earlier some light topics to share your appreciation for Sansa. Feel free to answer just a few or all of them :)

1. Favourite topics to discuss in the PTP

2. PTP analyses you really enjoyed reading

3. Favourite Sansa chapter or scene

4. Favourite PTP crackpot (see resources for the three options)

5. Favourite Sansa literary parallel

6. Your head canon Sansa looks like...

7. Favourite Sansa statement or phrase

8. Most interesting Sansa foreshadowing in your opinion

9. When and/or why did you come to love Sansa

10. Favourite Sansa interaction (with another character) in the novels

Favourite Sansa literary parallel--Fanny Price, in Mansfield Park, who is just as unpopular as Sansa, but just as staunch in her beliefs.

Most interesting Sansa foreshadowing--when she recalls the snowball fight she had with Arya and Bran. It says a lot about how the two younger Starks will attack and how she will use the perception of her supposed weakness and helplessness to win a victory.

When and/or why did you come to love Sansa? When Ned is imprisoned, she pleads for his life. She does not run away, nor does she indulge in a bout of hysterics, which a young lady might well have done. She does not pretend to be smarter than she is; she allows Cersei to assume that she barely knows how to read and write and allows Cersei to dictate the letters sent to Robb, Cat, Edmure and Lysa. Which is a dead give-away to Cat that her daughter is a prisoner. When her servants are killed and replaced with Cersei's maids, she does not indulge in gossip; she just gives orders, in a very courteous manner.

[yolkboy]

Congrats on the anniversary ptp!

I personally enjoyed Tze's analysis of Sansa and Jon, and Lady Gwyn's theory about her having Hounds cloak (and wearing it like an emotional shield).

For foreshadowing (and I'll stretch that to prophesy here) I like the GoHH's vision of the slayed giant. After a lot of thought I've come to believe that the doll is a red herring, and that this vision means all kinds of bad news for Littlefinger. :smug:

[Devaki Khanna]

Favourite topics to discuss in the PTP: How about Sansa's use of passive resistance and her religious faith? Does one arise out of the other (as with Gandhi and Martin Luther King) or are these mutually exclusive?

[Mladen]

OK, I love this, brash...

1. Favourite topics to discuss in the PTP

Since we have discussed all, it is though to pick one. I genuinely like the Motherhood project, the symbolism of Mother's Hymn and Sansa development as both person and player of the Game. I really enjoyed feminists discussion we had...

2. PTP analyses you really enjoyed reading

My own? :) Kidding... I like Mahaut's analysis of wolf and dog symbolism in Sansa's story, Milady's essay about Mother's hymn, Female influences project, Tze's Jon/Sansa piece, Ragnorak's magnum opus...

3. Favourite Sansa chapter or scene

Too difficult, don't ask me that... But, not kneeling scene is very important to me and my interest in Sansa as she-wolf.

4. Favourite PTP crackpot (see resources for the three options)

I am not sure whether we can say it is a crackpot, but I liked Bran Vras' ideas about Sansa and Harrenhal

5. Favourite Sansa literary parallel

Since I am working on something of my own, I would at the moment say Eowyn of Rohan. I also like my Kitty Scherbatsky (with Levin/Sandor parallel), Elba's analysis of East of the Sun and West of the Moon

6. Your head canon Sansa looks like...

I am rather satisfied with Sophie Turner's looks. Perhaps I would change it a bit, but overall that was a good casting

7. Favourite Sansa statement or phrase

"You couldn't have bent those Stark knees"... and "My skin has turned to porcelain to ivory, to steel"

8. Most interesting Sansa foreshadowing in your opinion

Snow castle scene.

9. When and/or why did you come to love Sansa

When? I don't know, it was pretty much from the beginning. Why? It's one of those things that inexplicably happens... I love Sansa for many things, but explaining them into detail would ruin the magic. I love her, that much is certain.

10. Favourite Sansa interaction (with another character) in the novels

I would say the marriage with Tyrion was rather interesting collision of two great persons.