From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa XXI

[TalalOfDorne]

Happy anniversary PtP, and a happy anniversary to all the posters who keep these threads going. A group of wonderful posters discussing a wonderful character :cheers:

I hope one day I have some time to make better posts here (If its not too late).

[The Ned's Little Girl]

Many congratulations to the wise minds of PtP and I echo all the words of thanks and admiration. It was reading these threads as a newcomer to the books and this forum that really gave me the first inklings of the many layers and depth in this story.

My absolute favorite discussion was the one of the snow castle. It's also my favorite scene in the entire series; so infused with deep emotions and meaning. Also the most brilliant writing of the series so far.

Also, the discussion of Sansa and the Hound's cloak. That was the first theory that actually got me really excited, like jumping out of my seat and running around yelling "you have to read this"!

I hope to see many more years of PtP analysis and discussion ahead. :bowdown:

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Happy Birthday PtP!! :cheers:

I'd like to say that I've truly enjoyed all the time I've spent here, from my days as a lurker, to being a participant and contributor. Brash and Milady maintain a lovely welcoming spirit that to me always feels as much a celebration of Sansa as anything else. I look forward to spending many more happy moments reading and interacting with the group here :)

With respect to Sansa/Susan, and as tze suggested above, there's the problematic handling of her maturity and separation from Narnia, which many have seen as an indictment of sorts on adult femininity. This seems very relevant to a discussion on how Martin has developed Sansa's character in ASOIAF, where I would argue we're seeing a much more positive exploration of female sexuality and agency, one that is integral to considerations of the power she will hold in the future.

Just wanted to add to this since Narnia was my first love in fantasy... I've always seen the similarities as well. As far as Susan/Sansa goes, I think it's important to give credence to C.S.Lewis's assertion that Susan did indeed make it back to Narnia eventually. He was dealing with an allegory of heaven after all and Susan's denial of Narnia was, for him, tantamount to Saint Peter denying Jesus Christ. It was presented through the lens of fantasy as a child losing her ability for magical thinking but always with the sense of hope that it could be regained, and that there could ultimately be a reunion between the siblings. As such, I see it less as an indictment of adult femininity (even though the trappings of such are used symbolically) than an indictment of loss of faith, which broadly I see as a reverse process in Sansa.

As for favourites, I'll just name a few:

I love all the Beauty and the Beast discussions, tze's Jon analysis, most of Ragnorak's contributions (especially Parsifal and Lady/Bran), the motherhood project (especially Milady's epic Wicked Stepmother essay) and for crackpots, well... I'm honored to have been involved in one of the three that arose in this very iteration... The Bloody Cloak ;)

[Black Crow]

Thanks for the well wishes and lovely comments folks!

@ Black Crow - Very interesting thoughts concerning Narnia. I haven't read the books, but I do remember us having a brief discussion on it where tze made some provocative arguments. How have the heretics been developing the parallels, because for Sansa's role it might have value in considering her as a Winter Queen candidate, something which you have alluded to in the past as complimentary to Jon's station. I'm reposting tze's thoughts below:

With respect to Sansa/Susan, and as tze suggested above, there's the problematic handling of her maturity and separation from Narnia, which many have seen as an indictment of sorts on adult femininity. This seems very relevant to a discussion on how Martin has developed Sansa's character in ASOIAF, where I would argue we're seeing a much more positive exploration of female sexuality and agency, one that is integral to considerations of the power she will hold in the future.

Very interesting and I'm therefore going off to quite shamelessly post this into the Heresy thread, where if you come and take a look there are all sorts of other parallels explored - but the Sansa one is particularly well thought out.

[Elba the Intoner]

Hello fellow PTP peeps! Happy Anniversary to this thread and special kudos to Brashcandy for lovingly maintaining this thread for two years. I started at almost the very beginning and it was this thread that made me come out of lurker status (which I had been doing since October 2011, after I finished reading all the books) to make an account and start posting. This has been my first real experience with an online forum and I can't think of a better group and topic to have started with. You are all quite the bright bunch and I have learned so much from all of you. This reread has also given me such a huge appreciation for this whole work in general and has hugely helped my understanding of some other characters, particularly Arya, Cat, Ned, Cersei, LF and of course Sandor. It's also broadened my understanding and challenged the way I think about certain feminist issues such as the "feminine ideal."

I promised earlier some light topics to share your appreciation for Sansa. Feel free to answer just a few or all of them :)

1. Favourite topics to discuss in the PTP
2. PTP analyses you really enjoyed reading
3. Favourite Sansa chapter or scene
4. Favourite PTP crackpot (see resources for the three options)
5. Favourite Sansa literary parallel
6. Your head canon Sansa looks like...
7. Favourite Sansa statement or phrase
8. Most interesting Sansa foreshadowing in your opinion
9. When and/or why did you come to love Sansa
10. Favourite Sansa interaction (with another character) in the novels

1. Favorite topics discussed: Well, there were so many good ones that it's hard to choose but I guess the Beauty and the Beast project stands out as well as the discussions on feminism, Sansa's agency including Brashcandy's essays, the passive vs active arguments, and the fairy tale parallels.

2. PTP analyses that I enjoyed: Again, all of them. That's a cop out I guess so some stand outs that pop into my head are Queen of Winter's mythology essays, Tze's essay on Sansa and Jon, the Beauty and the Beast project with the special focus on the Beast, Milady's examinations of the Hound, Mahaut's Courtly Love topic and the essays comparing the Hound and Littlefinger.

3. Favorite Sansa chapter or scene: I really love the scene in AFFC when she is coming down from the Eyrie with Sweetrobin and has to go over that landsaddle and takes him by the hand and just does it. there are so many subtle hints that she is getting strength from her northern identity there, particularly when she hears the wind howling and thinks, as Sansa though she is supposed to be Alayne, that it sounds like a wolf. I can picture the other characters watching in silence, everyone holding their breath as Sansa takes Sweetrobin across, knowing how dangerous it is, and afterwards Myranda says how she is brave as well as beautiful. That scene epitomizes Sansa's inner strength to me. This scene is closely followed by her singing the mother's hymn song to Sandor in her room the night of the Battle of the Blackwater. When she touches his cheek and realizes he's crying was very moving. That scene epitomizes Sansa's empathy to me. Rounding out the top 3 is the snow castle scene.

4. Favorite crackpots: The Elder Brother as Ser Morgarth and the green cloak made from Sandor's white cloak.

5. Favorite Sansa literary parallel: I remember having a discussion about how Sansa was a lot like Emma Woodhouse for Jane Austen's Emma and I think it's very appropriate. I think she is a lot like what Sansa would have been if she hadn't left Winterfell so young and had more time to do matchmaking for her friends and family. They are both matchmakers and hopeless romantics at heart.

6. I don't have a favorite head canon per se. I've seen some really beautiful artwork featuring Sansa and I think Sophie turner is a great Sansa too so I can't pick out one in particular.

7. Favorite statement or thought: Lies and Arbor Gold - This epitomizes her defiance for me and leaves me hopeful that she is not going to follow LF into the moral morass he's trying to lead her to.

8. Most interesting foreshadowing: I think all the bird references and the element of air throughout all her chapters has me wondering if she will ever warg a bird. The little bird references too being the same nickname that Varys uses for his spy network suggests that if she wargs a bird she could use it to gather useful information. Also, as Yolkboy mentioned above, I really want to know who the Giant is that Sansa will slay, that the doll is a red herring, and also hope that it is LF.

9. I liked her all along though I think when she started to plead for Ned after he was arrested had me really sit up and take notice and of course when she is taken to see his head on the battlements and just hardens herself to it and defies Joff, thinks of pushing him off the ledge, really sealed it for me.

a. I'd also like to add a subtopic here about the one point where I liked Sansa the least. I know we all love Sansa but what makes her a great character, as well as many others in this series, is that she has some flaws. For me, one of her lowest points was when she was upset at being sent back to Winterfell in AGOT and she screamed at Arya that she's ugly like Hodor and ought to marry him. Ouch! I know she was upset but that was just mean.

10. Favorite interactions between Sansa and another character is a no brainer - everything with her and Sandor.

[DogLover]

Congratulations on your second anniversary, PtP!! :cheers: While I only recently chimed in as a participant, I've quietly lurked since joining the forum. And PtP was actually one of the main reasons I joined and has remained my absolute favorite forum project. What Brash and Milady have accomplished is truly admirable and inspiring. You've both really raised the bar for other reread/rethink projects. Here's to many more years of thoughtful and insightful analysis and discussion on such a deeply layered character.

1. Favourite topics to discuss in the PTP - The relationship between Sansa and Sandor.
2. PTP analyses you really enjoyed reading - Wow, too many to choose from. While I've thoroughly enjoyed all of the analyses from the PtP contributors, I suppose I'll have to give special mention to A Closer Look at Littlefinger and the Hound by Milady and Brash, the Beauty and the Beast project, Ragnorak's snow castle analysis, and Tze's essay on Jon and Sansa.
3. Favourite Sansa chapter or scene - Again, too hard to choose, but I suppose the serpentine stairs, the Battle of the Blackwater, and the building of the snow castle.
4. Favourite PTP crackpot (see resources for the three options) - They are all very good, but the Elder Brother as Ser Morgarth the Merry is probably my favorite.
5. Favourite Sansa literary parallel - Belle :)
6. Your head canon Sansa looks like... Forever Sophia Turner, but I also love Bubug's illustration.
7. Favourite Sansa statement or phrase "Or maybe he'll give me your head."
8. Most interesting Sansa foreshadowing in your opinion - "Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it" and the snow castle scene.
9. When and/or why did you come to love Sansa - I think I liked Sansa from the very beginning. She's a character I can really relate to, as I had a special fondness for fairy tales when growing up. Her arc and development as a character is not only incredibly rich, but also extremely realistic to me.
10. Favourite Sansa interaction (with another character) in the novels - Sandor, of course. :)

[Old Ida]

Congratulations on your second anniversary.

Been lurking all the time ... and today I baked a Lemoncake ;)

[Mahaut]

Happy birthday PtP!

And thank you Brashcandy and Milady for having maintained this thread for two years :)

I promised earlier some light topics to share your appreciation for Sansa. Feel free to answer just a few or all of them :)

1. Favourite topics to discuss in the PTP
2. PTP analyses you really enjoyed reading
3. Favourite Sansa chapter or scene
4. Favourite PTP crackpot (see resources for the three options)
5. Favourite Sansa literary parallel
6. Your head canon Sansa looks like...
7. Favourite Sansa statement or phrase
8. Most interesting Sansa foreshadowing in your opinion
9. When and/or why did you come to love Sansa
10. Favourite Sansa interaction (with another character) in the novels

1. Favourite Topics

I enjoyed the Beauty and the Beast project and any discussion that had to do with Sansa gaining agency. I also appreciated the gothic romance expansion and the talk about Arthurian legends. And I enjoyed writing about courtly love too.

2. Analyses I enjoyed

There are so many of them…

Milady’s essays: The inspiration for "I'm no ser

The Two Faces of the Beast I: By Fire Transformed, The Making of the Hound

Some thoughts on the unkiss

Brashcandys’ ones: Awakening the Beast: Female Sexuality and Empowerment in Sansa's Arc

Awakening the Beast II: The Courtship of Mr. Lyon.

An exploration of Gothic themes in Sansa's arc

DogLover’s: Sexual awakening in the Female Gothic

Elba’s: The Phantom of the Opera

The Hunchback of Notre Dame

3. Favourite Sansa chapter or scene

I’ve always had a soft spot for Sansa’s last chapter in AGOT. It’s a very sad chapter for her but I think that’s also the one in which she starts to rely on her own strength. I find her “badass” in that chapter, in her own unique way.

4. Favourite PTP crackpot

The Elder Brother as Ser Morgarth… We live in hope :)

5. Favourite Sansa literary parallel

None really

6. Your head canon Sansa looks like...

Like Elba, no head-canon really. But I’ve seen nice fanarts out there. And I really like the one Bubug did for the Beauty and the Beast project. So Thanks Bubug and Milady for that :)

7. Favourite Sansa statement or phrase

The last lines of her last chapter in AGOT. Oddly enough, these lines really caught my eyes the first time I read them. They seem so out of place in this context, so desperate and yet so “Sansa” (with the importance of courtesies). I think they illustrate her emotional turmoil well.

The moment was gone. Sansa lowered her eyes, “Thank you,” she said when he was done. She was a good girl, and always remembered her courtesies.

8. Most interesting Sansa foreshadowing in your opinion

The snow castle and the giant… I’m dying to see if there’s more to that one.

9. When and/or why did you come to love Sansa

I’ve always liked her. I like the contrast between her and Arya, and I like reading about her evolution in the saga. I can relate to her too since I am myself very interested in knightly tales.

10. Favourite Sansa interaction (with another character) in the novels

Can’t lie here; I love her interaction with Sandor. But I also enjoy her memories of her past interactions with her family.

[The Crow's Third Eye]

Happy Birthday PtP folks, your contributions to the forum are much appreciated and very insightful. Although I have contributed little and less to these threads (I think I have commented a grand total of twice, hehe) I do thoroughly enjoy reading the work of all of you and respect you all greatly for your ideas and the brilliant way you manage to get your points across in essays.Happy 2nd Birthday, and may your work continue into Winter and beyond :cheers: :grouphug:

1. Favourite topics to discuss in the PTP - Not so much to discuss, but very much enjoyed reading the female influences on Sansa :)
2. PTP analyses you really enjoyed reading - Motherhood project, in particular The Mother role model and its impact on character development: The case of Daenerys and Sansa by Ragnorak
3. Favourite Sansa chapter or scene - Sansa viewing the heads of her father and Septa, before preparing to drag Joffery to his death in an act of self-sacrifice.
4. Favourite PTP crackpot (see resources for the three options) - Definitely Morgarth as the Elder Brother, searching for posts on the Hedge Knights in the Vale is what introduced me to this thread, and since then I have worked my way steadily through the resources here!
5. Favourite Sansa literary parallel - I can't pick just one!
6. Your head canon Sansa looks like... I have my own picture of her in my head, and since I lack the ability to draw...
7. Favourite Sansa statement or phrase "I thought my song was beginning that day, but it was almost done."
8. Most interesting Sansa foreshadowing in your opinion
9. When and/or why did you come to love Sansa - I enjoyed Sansa from a Game of Thrones, but she really started to shine to me in her Clash of Kings chapters, as I began to feel great sympathy for her
10. Favourite Sansa interaction (with another character) in the novels - Her final confrontation with her aunt, memorable for so many reasons

[Houndbird]

Of the topic. I was reading through the Sandor Clegane threads from a few years back. Really enjoyed them. They ended at v. 19. Was it just a natural ending or was it stopped? Just curious.

Congratulations on the 2nd anniversary of the PtP threads. It's my absolute favourite and the only one I subscrbe too.

[Adara]

Of the topic. I was reading through the Sandor Clegane threads from a few years back. Really enjoyed them. They ended at v. 19. Was it just a natural ending or was it stopped? Just curious.

Congratulations on the 2nd anniversary of the PtP threads. It's my absolute favourite and the only one I subscrbe too.

Do you have a link for the threads? Search function hates me..

Happy Nameday PtP :) I enjoy your essays, your crackpots (love the cloak! :D) , and simply - everything.

[EmmaoftheCanals]

Congratulations on the two year anniversary! I must admit this is my favourite corner of the forum... I love reading the stuff in here and has provided me with a lot of new insights. I want to compliment everyone here for the job well done!

1. Favourite topics to discuss in the PTP - I don't often partake in the discussions but I love reading about basically everything!
2. PTP analyses you really enjoyed reading - I enjoy reading all of them. One that stuck by me the most is the Beauty and the Beast project I think. But there are so many gems!

3. Favourite Sansa chapter or scene -

The snow castle comes to mind of course, the love for Winterfell really resonates... I also love the scene were she gets Sweetrobin over the gorge.

4. Favourite PTP crackpot (see resources for the three options) - The Bloody Cloak.
5. Favourite Sansa literary parallel - Belle :)
6. Your head canon Sansa looks like... I first watched the show, so Sophie Turner is Sansa to me.
7. Favourite Sansa statement or phrase Hmmm... Difficult.
8. Most interesting Sansa foreshadowing in your opinion - Snow Castle
9. When and/or why did you come to love Sansa - I only came to the novels after watching season 1 & 2. So it was Sophia Turner who convinced me not to write off Sansa too quickly (she was not very likeable in the beginning to me). The books probably would've turned me as well in aCoK, but I'll never know ;).

10. Favourite Sansa interaction (with another character) in the novels - Though Sandor and Sansa have the most interesting relationship, I really liked the Arya-Sansa interactions of aGoT. Maybe because I have two little sisters who have driven me crazy ;)... I'm sad they're not together anymore.

[Milady of York]

Time for the hosts to step into the sandbox and play like good girls...

1. Favourite topics to discuss in the PTP

Enjoyed all of the topics we’ve touched, but three sets of topics are near to my heart: the Examining the Beauty and the Beast project and the Female and Male Influences in their second iteration.

2. PTP analyses you really enjoyed reading

Most of what Brashcandy has written, in particular her Awakening the Beast essays, Ragnorak’s Symbolism and Foreshadowing in Sansa’s snow castle, and Tze’s Some thoughts on Sansa and Jon would be my picks.

3. Favourite Sansa chapter or scene

So many of them! I cannot choose just one, so I’d have to go book by book. In AGOT: Sansa II, in ACOK: Sansa II and Sansa IV to VII, in ASOS: Sansa VII, and in AFFC: Alayne II.

4. Favourite PTP crackpot (see resources for the three options)

Ser Morgarth the Merry as cover-up identity for the Elder Brother first, and then the Kingsguard cloak dyed green and worn by Sansa at her escape.

5. Favourite Sansa literary parallel

Being an avid reader, I’ve come across other heroines and storylines with varying degrees of resemblance to Sansa, but thus far I still haven’t found one that I can tell reminds me of her in a wholly satisfactory manner.

6. Your head canon Sansa looks like...

It’s evolved and been polished over the years, so the Sansa I saw in my mind when I first read the books isn’t like the Sansa I visualise now; the Sansa in Bubug’s poster is closer to my original headcanon than to my current, for example. And being an ASOIAF books fan, it’s definitely nothing like the actress who plays her in the HBO show.

7. Favourite Sansa statement or phrase

I’d have to go book by book again, as it’s so difficult to single out just one quote, but if I had to pick only one, it’d be this passage, which is not exactly an statement she’s uttered yet has always appealed to me:

When she opened the door to the garden, it was so lovely that she held her breath, unwilling to disturb such perfect beauty. The snow drifted down and down, all in ghostly silence, and lay thick and unbroken on the ground. All color had fled the world outside. It was a place of whites and blacks and greys. White towers and white snow and white statues, black shadows and black trees, the dark grey sky above. A pure world, Sansa thought. I do not belong here.

Yet she stepped out all the same. Her boots tore ankle-deep holes into the smooth white surface of the snow, yet made no sound. Sansa drifted past frosted shrubs and thin dark trees, and wondered if she were still dreaming. Drifting snowflakes brushed her face as light as lover’s kisses, and melted on her cheeks. At the center of the garden, beside the statue of the weeping woman that lay broken and half-buried on the ground, she turned her face up to the sky and closed her eyes. She could feel the snow on her lashes, taste it on her lips. It was the taste of Winterfell. The taste of innocence. The taste of dreams.

8. Most interesting Sansa foreshadowing in your opinion

The snow castle, definitely, because of the hints at her role in the rebuilding of Winterfell, and the slaying of the giant. Aside its foreshadowing value, the scene itself is quite beautiful and conveys strong emotions, very apt to read and re-read.

9. When and/or why did you come to love Sansa

I can pinpoint with precision the moment: AGOT Sansa II, her “he was no true knight” reaction was definitely a turning point in my opinion of her and kindled my interest in examining her closely thenceforward, so the hitherto fourth and last character in my favourites list began the climb upwards to the pole position.

10. Favourite Sansa interaction (with another character) in the novels

Her interaction with the Hound certainly takes the cake, and I also love the small windows into her relationship with her brothers Bran and Jon that we find in the boys’ chapters.

[Queen Alienor]

Happy Nameday! I have to say I only recently stumbled over this thread and it is genius. I'm really impressed by the knowledge people here have. Keep up the good work!

[Elba the Intoner]

I just thought of another favorite Sansa moment. Well, it's not really one moment, but all the moments where she goads Joff and he's too stupid to realize it, for example when she asks him if he will be on the front lines of battle and how her brother Robb is always in the front leading the battle.

[DogLover]

I just thought of another favorite Sansa moment. Well, it's not really one moment, but all the moments where she goads Joff and he's too stupid to realize it, for example when she asks him if he will be on the front lines of battle and how her brother Robb is always in the front leading the battle.

Any time Sansa trolls Joffrey is awesome. :laugh:

Another favorite scene of mine is when she saves Dontos. I just love the dynamic between Sansa, Sandor, and Tommen, and how Sandor deftly manages to diffuse the entire situation.

[Bran Vras]

As mainly a former contributor to the forum, I am delighted to make a short apparition here for the second birthday of what can not be appropriately described as a mere thread. Friendship and the appeal of celebration make me come. And a little debt.

I had decided to retire from all ASOIAF analysis some time ago, when Brashcandy and Milady brought my attention to their post on Ser Morgarth.

I don’t know if I should curse or thank them, but I couldn’t help having a second, in-depth, look at Brienne’s quest.

It seemed to me that Brienne’s final claim to Jaime that she had found Sansa should not be untrue. It would be quite inelegant from GRRM to have left us with a meaningless lie. So, perhaps, the notion that Brienne has completed her quest has merit, or so it seemed to me.

But my own quest for Sansa went astray. I could never piece together a coherent explanation with what we are given. But, along the way, I have accumulated a large set of notes, on the Quiet Isle and the Brotherhood without Banners, on the Whispers and Septon Meribald, maritime transportation and the circulation of oranges, the Tarly-Mooton wedding and the politics of the Reach, the Hightowers, and finally the Citadel of Oldtown, which was a less pleasant end point than expected.

I can only offer here are my thoughts in three parts on the Citadel and the order of maesters. From Darkness to Darkness (an examination of the origin of the Citadel), From Ruled to Ruler (the political influence of the Citadel), New Events in Oldtown (the complex situation prevailing in Oldtown). I don’t post here because it is very long, and has nothing to do with Sansa unfortunately. Once again, my thinking began with Brash and Milady's seminal observation in this very thread.

To formulate explicitly the possible lesson of my wandering: one can not examine Sansa without examining all of the saga – and vice versa. “This is so,” Illyrio agreed, “but the world is one great web, and a man dare not touch a single strand lest all the others tremble. More wine?”

PS: Among the post I have enjoyed recently, I can perhaps single out Lady Gwynhyfvar’s observation on Sandor’s cloak – The devil is in the details (AGoT, Acknowledgements).

[brashcandy]

Just wanted to add to this since Narnia was my first love in fantasy... I've always seen the similarities as well. As far as Susan/Sansa goes, I think it's important to give credence to C.S.Lewis's assertion that Susan did indeed make it back to Narnia eventually. He was dealing with an allegory of heaven after all and Susan's denial of Narnia was, for him, tantamount to Saint Peter denying Jesus Christ. It was presented through the lens of fantasy as a child losing her ability for magical thinking but always with the sense of hope that it could be regained, and that there could ultimately be a reunion between the siblings. As such, I see it less as an indictment of adult femininity (even though the trappings of such are used symbolically) than an indictment of loss of faith, which broadly I see as a reverse process in Sansa.

Thanks for the further insight Gwyn! I agree that the reverse process can definitely be glimpsed in Sansa, with the snow castle scene exemplifying an almost mystical embodiment of faith.

Now I go join Milady in the sandbox because she's tugging my pigtails :P

Favourite topics to discuss in the PTP

I like mostly everything, but my definite interest concerns analyses which reveal the particularities of Sansa’s character - what she’s like and what she likes, to put it plainly. Anything that focuses on her development and the themes therein: sexuality, motherhood, agency, home and belonging, to name a few.

PTP analyses:

I do honestly cherish everything that is in the Resource section. To highlight a few favourites: Milady of York’s Baelish vs. Stark and The Two Faces of the Beast I and II; Lyanna Stark’s analysis on Tyrion for the Male Influences project; and Elba’s essays on the Phantom of the Opera and The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

Favourite Sansa chapter:

The one where she journeys to the Fingers. I just find it fascinating on many different levels, including the interaction she shares with Littlefinger and Lysa, and her dream of the Hound. Hmmm, at the end of that chapter Lysa makes a prediction of what Sansa’s fate will be – My son will have a grateful and obedient wife – that is similar to LF’s confidence in his own calculations at the end of AFFC. They should have asked Tyrion Lannister how that grateful and obedient wife thing worked out for him.

Favourite scene:

Ahhh, so hard to choose, but it comes down to two with the Hound: their meeting on Maegor’s Holdfast, pre- Blackwater, and then on the actual night of the battle when he comes to her room. Things said and things left unsaid…. Enough said ;)

Favourite PTP crackpot:

I don’t think anything can top the jump up and down excitement when Milady and I hit on Morgarth as the Elder Brother. If we are wrong, I will be very very sad.

Favourite literary parallel:

Jane Eyre. They are both passionate, and let their voices be heard and their desires felt despite attempts to silence and negate them.

Your head canon Sansa looks like:

No one in particular, but that goes for a lot of the characters. I prefer to have this fuzzy, indeterminate vision in my head, which is only defined by general attributes: auburn hair, beautiful, blue eyes, tall.

Favourite Sansa statement:

Probably he was no true knight – that is everything you ever needed to know about Sansa Stark and why she’s fabulous/you need to rethink this girl right there – but other close contenders would be:

- “Maybe my brother will give me your head.”.

- “I will sing it for you gladly.”

Most interesting foreshadowing:

The Ghost of High Heart’s prophecy, the cloak exchanges with Sandor, and snow castle Winterfell.

When/why I came to love Sansa:

During the conversation with the Hound as they walk across the tourney grounds after the feast in her second AGOT chapter. It showed not only her compassion and empathy – emotional depth at its finest – but the fact that she was fearless in her own way.

Favourite interaction:

Sandor Clegane, also known as the Hound, and Grave Digger on the Quiet Isle. Special mention goes to Sweetrobin as well. I am particularly interested in seeing how her relationship with the latter develops in TWOW.

[brashcandy]

As mainly a former contributor to the forum, I am delighted to make a short apparition here for the second birthday of what can not be appropriately described as a mere thread. Friendship and the appeal of celebration make me come. And a little debt.

I had decided to retire from all ASOIAF analysis some time ago, when Brashcandy and Milady brought my attention to their post on Ser Morgarth.

I don’t know if I should curse or thank them, but I couldn’t help having a second, in-depth, look at Brienne’s quest.

It seemed to me that Brienne’s final claim to Jaime that she had found Sansa should not be untrue. It would be quite inelegant from GRRM to have left us with a meaningless lie. So, perhaps, the notion that Brienne has completed her quest has merit, or so it seemed to me.

But my own quest for Sansa went astray. I could never piece together a coherent explanation with what we are given. But, along the way, I have accumulated a large set of notes, on the Quiet Isle and the Brotherhood without Banners, on the Whispers and Septon Meribald, maritime transportation and the circulation of oranges, the Tarly-Mooton wedding and the politics of the Reach, the Hightowers, and finally the Citadel of Oldtown, which was a less pleasant end point than expected.

I can only offer here are my thoughts in three parts on the Citadel and the order of maesters. From Darkness to Darkness (an examination of the origin of the Citadel), From Ruled to Ruler (the political influence of the Citadel), New Events in Oldtown (the complex situation prevailing in Oldtown). I don’t post here because it is very long, and has nothing to do with Sansa unfortunately. Once again, my thinking began with Brash and Milady's seminal observation in this very thread.

To formulate explicitly the possible lesson of my wandering: one can not examine Sansa without examining all of the saga – and vice versa. “This is so,” Illyrio agreed, “but the world is one great web, and a man dare not touch a single strand lest all the others tremble. More wine?”

PS: Among the post I have enjoyed recently, I can perhaps single out Lady Gwynhyfvar’s observation on Sandor’s cloak – The devil is in the details (AGoT, Acknowledgements).

You made it, and you came bearing gifts, I should be the one thanking you :)

[Milady of York]

In keeping with the lighthearted tone of the day, I've now been reduced to the role of Butterbumps! (the jester, not Lemoncakes!) and here I bring the Q&A I came up with Brashcandy's complicity...

THINGS YOU ALWAYS WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SANSA

BUT WERE AFRAID TO ASK

1. Why does Sansa like lemoncakes so much?

Partly because of the exoticism of its flavour and partly because she favours the scent of lemons, apparently. Lemoncakes would be a rare treat to Sansa, a welcome variation to traditional sweets of milk, eggs, flour and sugar with some conserves, because in a cold place like Winterfell, citric fruits such as oranges and lemons are scarce, likely brought from the south if not grown in the castle’s glass gardens, so a girl like Sansa, who longs for a more exciting environment is almost a perfect candidate for a lemoncake addiction. Besides, lemoncake is delicious, neither excessively sweet nor bitter but an appealing mix of both.

2. What's up with Sansa never commenting on Sandor's age?

We know that Sansa thought Beric Dondarrion was “awfully old” at twenty two, so that would make Sandor Clegane positively ancient at the ripe old age of twenty-six… Why then does she never mention his age even in passing?

Before you think this makes Sansa an incorrigible hypocrite, the likes of which have only been seen in any random chapter concerning a lion, bear in mind that it is in human nature to be a little blind when it comes to one’s own interests, especially in matters of the heart. The naïve eleven-year old Sansa Stark did take into account such trifles as age and looks where potential romantic partners for herself or her friends were concerned, but thirteen-going-on-fourteen year old Alayne is more mature and understands that appearance and counting your namedays aren’t pivotal factors in stable and satisfying relationships but positive character traits and compatibility. True to that newfound knowledge, she now is on her way to playing matchmaker to that prehistoric relic with graying fur that is Lothor Brune and the stripling youngster Mya Stone.

3. If Renly was the most handsome man Sansa had ever seen, why was she crushing on Loras?

Renly was uncle to her betrothed Joffrey, so he was poised to become her uncle-by-marriage, and unlike the Targaryens, Sansa does adhere to the rule of “No boffing your uncles...” That aside, she doesn’t fall for just any random handsome man she meets but for those who are gallant towards her and show what she perceives as genuine interest in her, and Renly Baratheon exhibited more his jester side than her gallant side to her, unlike Loras, who was always courteous to her and gave her as a present a red rose, a gesture which would charm a romantic girl like her.

4. Does Sansa have a favourite colour?

Yes, she does have one: blue. Out of sixteen times the colour of her dress is described in her chapters, six times it’s a blue, which indicates that this is her favourite colour. That does definitely show good taste in dressing, and we’re sure that if there’s a Vogue Westeros, it’d say blue is recommendable for all fashionable blue-eyed redheaded maidens, as it brings out the colour of their eyes and contrasts quite nicely with the reddish hue in their head.

5. Just how good of a singer is she?

Ask the Hound, he was moved to tears by her singing, wasn’t he? “A sweet little song,” are his exact words, and for the fearsome Hound of all people to compliment her singing means it was good enough to make a lasting impression on him. Now, if you think his assessment might be slightly biased, you can always ask Arya for her opinion, who mentions that Sansa excels at playing the bells and the harp, that she sang, and that she “did everything prettily,” which can be assumed extends to her singing.

6. Once and for all, what colour is auburn hair?

Auburn is a reddish brown shade, leaning more towards the red than the brown. According to her mother, Sansa “had auburn hair, lighter than mine, and so thick and soft . . . the red in it would catch the light of the torches and shine like copper.” So, Sansa’s hair would be like this, but a tad brighter if we go by Catelyn’s description:

7. Does Sansa have a sense of humour?

Surely calling Joffrey’s once beautiful mouth “red as those worms you found after a rain” and wondering if he moved those “fat wormy lips” when he read count as humour, right?

If we define having a sense of humour as cracking jokes, making witty remarks and spouting hilariously sarcastic one-liners, then Sansa definitely doesn’t fit in the typical definition of someone with a sense of humour. Yet, we know that she’s sociable, likes gossiping and giggling, having fun conversations and has a rather quiet penchant for fun. And seeing her interactions with Renly and Garlan as well as the Three Gallant Louts hired by a certain mockingbird, we see that she can handle herself quite well where jesting is concerned.

8. What is a cruel kiss?

This is a question that needs visual aids, plenty of them. But before we get to it, perhaps it would be better to tell you what a cruel is not: it’s not unpleasant, distasteful or icky, and certainly not what you normally associate when you hear the word cruel at all. Coming from Sansa's imagination, it's clear that a cruel mouth pressing down on hers is something she'd like to happen to again.

As for how it looks like, we’re told kissing experts seem to agree that this is the definition of a cruel kiss.

9. Of all the dozens songs and stories in Westerosi folklore, why does she prefer a song about a fool?

Simply put: because of the love story that inspired these songs. Sansa’s two favourite songs, this one and Aemon & Naerys are both love stories, a theme that is strong in her arc and features prominently in her own life aspirations to love and be loved for herself. But in contrast to Aemon and Naerys, a tale of possibly unconsummated love, in the sense that the lovers never ended up together, and that the storyline likely tells about secrecy and loving from afar, never attaining happiness with the person you want, thus it’s a sad story with an unhappy ending, in the song cycle about the fool-knight there are strong suggestions about a genuine love between him and Jonquil, and although we don’t know much of the plot to speculate whether they ended up together or were separated in the end, we do know enough to be sure that these two consummated their love and were actually happily together, at least for a while, as Duncan the Tall describes the tale as “sad and sweet” in opposition to Sansa describing Aemon/Naerys as just “sad.”

But this is also a tale of heroic chivalry, not just romance, as Florian hits all the hallmarks of the hero of a great story: he is homely and lowborn, earns a living as a minstrel (fool), but he gets knighted because of his ability, and through his own merits he became the greatest knight that lived by fighting a dragon and a giant, which accounts for his popularity amongst the male Stark children (Jon included) minus Arya, and for being the figure from Westerosi folklore more popular than other greats like the Dragonknight, Ser Ryam, Serwyn of the Mirror Shield and Arthur Dayne to name some, to judge by the number of mentions throughout the novels and the D&E tales. In sum, Florian is both a warrior, which explains the fanboyism of Jon, Robb and Bran, and a lover, which explains Sansa’s fangirlism.

10. Do any animals hate Sansa?

Yes, cats. Our wolfish little bird has a terrible track record with felines: first, when scurrying by the Serpentine to her meeting with Dontos, a cat hisses menacingly at her, then when she is summoned by Joffrey to answer for Robb’s victories there’s a dying cat mewling piteously at her, and finally we have the infamous “Only Cat” line, courtesy of Petyr Baelish.

Bad associations all around, as you can see. But given her very good relations with animals of the canine family, we’re sure there’s a scientific explanation for this which is connected to the ages-old rivalry between cats and dogs, for surely those ill-intentioned cats did smell that and acted accordingly.