Who will the Faith Support?

[jarl the climber]

I think the main question is if he knows if cersei's children are bastards

I think he beleives that it might be true but he has no wish to see Stannis on the Throne. Still if his people flock to Aegon he might have more of reason to pursue them. We also do not know if he has any personal prejudice for or against the Targs. Connington might also insist that the Faith disband its military wing. So while he might be inclined to belive the charge I think he will consider the alternative. I think he would rather back Tommen, incest or not, than a man who has abandoned his Gods to worship false ones or a pretender who has no right to the throne and who could both cancel the decree that Tommen signed that allowed the Faith to rearm.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I think he beleives that it might be true but he has no wish to see Stannis on the Throne. Still if his people flock to Aegon he might have more of reason to pursue them. We also do not know if he has any personal prejudice against the Targs. Connington might also insist that the Faith disband its military wing. So while he might be inclined to belive the charge I think he will consider the alternative. I think he would rather back Tommen, incest or not, than a man who has abandoned his Gods to worship false ones or a pretender who has no right to the throne and who could both cancel the decree that Tommen signed that allowed the Faith to rearm.

Yea I think he doesnt want stannis cause Stannis is a herectic.

Why I think the faith have something against the targs is that they rose against them even when they had dragons which I think was the boldest move of all the rebellions under the targ dynasty.

[The Mountain That Flies]

It's not possible that the Seven/the Drowned God could want Stannis/Euron to sit the throne. But it's also not possible that the divine basis for kinghood is wrong. The only reasonable conclusion then is that the priest who blessed Tommen/legitimized the kingsmoot was wrong, and is not divinely inspired. But can the HS/Damphair reach that conclusion about themselves?

Speaking for the Damphair is a bit trickier (since he's an idiot), but this probem doesn't actually exist for the HS. Remember, it was the previous High Septon (Tyrion's man) who sanctioned Tommen as king, and his predecessor (the fat one) who signed off on Joffrey. In the real world, multiple popes have issued doctrines going against what previous popes have said, and since the Seven is most closely based on Catholicism (Martin's own religion growing up which he eventually gave up), it's not hard to see how the HS could say previous rulings were no longer valid. This is especially true since it can be pretty easily implied (if not outright proven) that the last two HS were Lannister stooges.

It's also worth noting that, for various periods of history, popes have not only acted as military leaders, but also heads of state over enormous parts of Europe (he is currently still the head of state in the Vatican). So there is some precedent for the HS trying to make a power play, though I see him preferring to control the crown than posses it.

Im shocked alot of people think he will support Aegon, the fact that he punished cersei for adultery shows he wont support a grandchild of incest.

Yes, but most of the Targs kings were born of incest, and the Faith stopped complaining about it a long time ago. Besides, if (f)Aegon marries a non-Targ (like say Margary or Arienne) it could be seen as an effort to remove the taint of incest from the royal line.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Speaking for the Damphair is a bit trickier (since he's an idiot), but this probem doesn't actually exist for the HS. Remember, it was the previous High Septon (Tyrion's man) who sanctioned Tommen as king, and his predecessor (the fat one) who signed off on Joffrey. In the real world, multiple popes have issued doctrines going against what previous popes have said, and since the Seven is most closely based on Catholicism (Martin's own religion growing up which he eventually gave up), it's not hard to see how the HS could say previous rulings were no longer valid. This is especially true since it can be pretty easily implied (if not outright proven) that the last two HS were Lannister stooges.

It's also worth noting that, for various periods of history, popes have not only acted as military leaders, but also heads of state over enormous parts of Europe (he is currently still the head of state in the Vatican). So there is some precedent for the HS trying to make a power play, though I see him preferring to control the crown than posses it.

Yes, but most of the Targs kings were born of incest, and the Faith stopped complaining about it a long time ago. Besides, if (f)Aegon marries a non-Targ (like say Margary or Arienne) it could be seen as an effort to remove the taint of incest from the royal line.

They had no choice it was them up against dragonriders and afterwards they made a law for there to be no faith militant.

[jarl the climber]

Speaking for the Damphair is a bit trickier (since he's an idiot), but this probem doesn't actually exist for the HS. Remember, it was the previous High Septon (Tyrion's man) who sanctioned Tommen as king, and his predecessor (the fat one) who signed off on Joffrey. In the real world, multiple popes have issued doctrines going against what previous popes have said, and since the Seven is most closely based on Catholicism (Martin's own religion growing up which he eventually gave up), it's not hard to see how the HS could say previous rulings were no longer valid. This is especially true since it can be pretty easily implied (if not outright proven) that the last two HS were Lannister stooges.

It's also worth noting that, for various periods of history, popes have not only acted as military leaders, but also heads of state over enormous parts of Europe (he is currently still the head of state in the Vatican). So there is some precedent for the HS trying to make a power play, though I see him preferring to control the crown than posses it.

Yes, but most of the Targs kings were born of incest, and the Faith stopped complaining about it a long time ago. Besides, if (f)Aegon marries a non-Targ (like say Margary or Arienne) it could be seen as an effort to remove the taint of incest from the royal line.

I agree with what your saying to an extent. The Faith has backed people worse than Tommen over the years. Still I do not think that Connington will care for this HS or the Faith Militant. The HS more or less took power in a coup against the Faiths political leadership so he could face opposistion within his own Faith. He seems more dependent on grass roots support and he could start losing that if his some of his followers start backing Aegon and this would give his enemies in the Faith an opening to attack his legitmacy.

[Castellan]

Their only options are Aegon, because he follows the Faith of the Seven, or to somehow control the supposed Baratheon king, because Lannisters and Tyrells may be repugnant to the Sparrow for other reasons (worldliness, riches, and sin) but are nominally followers of the seven. Stannis has abandoned the Faith for a fire god and what's more would be impossible for the Sparrow to deal with. Dany would be a truly horrifying prospect.

The High Septon must be aiming for the second option, surely, because he would not have even been aware of Aegon when he started acting. Also, any incoming force would be coming in with soldiers and outstrip any power of the Faith Militant, wouldn't it? If they took Kings Landing, the Faith Militant would be a mere irritant. The Faith Militant are more like jackbooted blackshirts able to be a force against the status quo because the status quo fears that the Blackshirts may have the sympathies of the people behind them, and could rouse them.

If I was Aegon, I'd assassinate the High Sparrow in the chaos of the invasion and act nicely to the next one and sponsor lots of small scale worthwhile and difficult endeavours to be conducted by the Faith, such as running hospitals or rebuilding cities, and send the likes of Lancel off to that, like sending the Red Guards off to the countryside once they had served their purpose.

[falcotron]

Speaking for the Damphair is a bit trickier (since he's an idiot), but this probem doesn't actually exist for the HS. Remember, it was the previous High Septon (Tyrion's man) who sanctioned Tommen as king, and his predecessor (the fat one) who signed off on Joffrey.

Actually, the current HS _is_ responsible for Tommen. He agreed to bless Tommen (and forgive the crown's debt) in exchange for Cersei and Tommen agreeing to restore the Faith Militant.

He can only get out of that by saying he didn't know Tommen was an incestuous bastard at the time—in fact, that's the whole point of the trial of Cersei. But if he does so, Stannis the heretic becomes the legitimate heir. And that's why he's in a pickle.

If he stays in power much longer, one way or another, he's going to have to either admit that he's been wrong, challenge the very basis of kingship, or start making declarations that are obviously based on flimsy rationalizations. And I think the last of these is what we'll see from him.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

If they are so pro Aegon and so powerful then why have they not already declared for Aegon?

[Batman]

According to the Faith Aegon is a walking sin considering his incestuous parents. There is doubt.

[Myrish Swamp Thing]

If they are so pro Aegon and so powerful then why have they not already declared for Aegon?

Why give away your support for free if you can get a nice reward?

[Old-Growth]

The Faith will support whoever gives the High Septon the better deal.

Just so. The better deal meaning, among other things, the preservation of the Swords and Stars. Getting the revocation of Maegor's decrees cost him nearly a million dragons (the golden kind), and his blessing upon Tommen. He will find Jon C.'s desire to "end the Usurpers line forever", however, rather difficult to accept, which may make it difficult for him to support Aegon, even if he gets the concessions he wants.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

Why give away your support for free if you can get a nice reward?

What would the reward be?

[falcotron]

What would the reward be?

1. Keeping what he already has—an explicit royal endorsement of the Faith Militant from Aegon to match the one from Tommen, and a tacit endorsement of the idea that the Faith have the authority to judge the Royal House as they did with the false Royal House of the usurpers and bastards.
   
2. To be allowed (but not required) to fight Stannis and any other heretics, rather than to be hamstrung by any agreement that Aegon and Stannis might come up with (as implausible as such an agreement might be).
   
3. Delicious candy.
   

[Euranus]

The faith will support itself. Since they've become radicalized again, they will fight off anyone that isn't a believer in the seven. So they'd probably oppose the ironborn, Stannis, and perhaps Dany's foreign army if she brings one. But I don't think they need to clearly support one person over another, say, if they both believe in the seven and command armies that believe in the seven.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

• Keeping what he already hasan explicit royal endorsement of the Faith Militant from Aegon to match the one from Tommen, and a tacit endorsement of the idea that the Faith have the authority to judge the Royal House as they did with the false Royal House of the usurpers and bastards.
• To be allowed (but not required) to fight Stannis and any other heretics, rather than to be hamstrung by any agreement that Aegon and Stannis might come up with (as implausible as such an agreement might be).
• Delicious candy.

To me this is just saying they wait until whoever conquers KL, then make deals with that person.

Whoever has the best army, that's who they will support.

So they will stay with Tommen until somebody proves strong enough to take him off the throne.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

According to the Faith Aegon is a walking sin considering his incestuous parents. There is doubt.

This

[Dead Wolf]

Even if the Faith do support Aegon, JonCon will destroy the orders of Sword and Star after the war is over, and strip the Faith of all political power

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Even if the Faith do support Aegon, JonCon will destroy the orders of Sword and Star after the war is over, and strip the Faith of all political power

That won't be an easy task though, the faith is growing strong.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

The Faith is only getting strong because the smallfolk are near starving and they feel religion is the one best looking out for them.

In the end they will go with who actually puts food in their belly and brings some peace.

Which may not happen for a very long time with the winter arrival and imminent invasion of Others.

Kings with great armies will be in the best position to restore some type of civil society.

Faith would make a huge mistake not supporting a good one based on heretical reasons.

[Tyrion's Third Wife]

According to the Faith Aegon is a walking sin considering his incestuous parents. There is doubt.

Huh? Rhaegar and Elia weren't related.