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Do we know Planetos is round?


falcotron

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Some readers seem to think that Euron discovered that the world was round by sailing East until he came upon the Iron Islands from the West. But that's silly. Sailors have known that our world is round since at least the days of the Phoenicians, and likely much longer.

When you sail too far from land, it dips below the horizon. The horizon's only about 5km from the deck of a ship, so people see this all the time. On top of that, it's very obvious that the higher up you go, the farther the horizon is. That's why you have crows' nests on ships, and watchtowers at coastal defenses. And people have gone even higher—the dragonlords, wargs who can see from eagles, etc. Surely everyone must know the world is round.

And yet, it seems like nobody ever sails far enough to lose sight of land in ASOIAF. Look at how Euron caught the Reach by surprise, and how everyone talks about it. In our world, by the time people had carracks and caravels (both of which are described in the novels), sailing beyond the horizon was commonplace, but on theirs, it's nearly unthinkable.

And if sailing beyond the horizon is unthinkable, the horizon must be pretty far. In the middle of the Narrow Sea, you're 100 miles from shore in either direction; on Earth, unless your crows' nest were a couple miles high, you wouldn't see anything but open sea.

Maybe the planet (or version of Earth, or whatever) that ASOIAF takes place on is just many times larger than Earth. But that seems even less likely than the other possibility: It's flat, so there is no horizon.

Of course if the world is flat, Euron must have traveled hundreds of miles out to avoid being spotted on his way south. But people routinely seem to travel around Westeros much faster than cars and stream trains, sometimes even jets, could possibly go. Winterfell to King's Landing is, what, 1500 miles? There's clearly something very weird about distance, so I don't think this is a problem.

Night and day wouldn't work that much differently with a sun rising and falling over a flat world. Seasons would of course not work at all, but we already know that the seasons don't work right on Westeros, and are magical.

EDITED to remove all reference to any name for the planet, in hopes that will stop the thread from being derailed (although not very high hopes)

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GRRM says here that the planet is Earth. http://shelf-life.ew...e-with-dragons/

So yes it should be round.

It's Earth. But it's not our Earth… I have people constantly writing me with science fiction theories about the seasons — “It’s a double star system with a black dwarf and that would explain–” It’s fantasy, man, it’s magic.

Being a flat Earth is consistent with being a magical/fantasy version of our world, especially given the common misconception that people in the Middle Ages thought our world was flat.

Being several times larger, or having a different atmosphere that affects the way light bends, or any other reasonable explanation for why no one ever sails out of sight of land that I can think of, are _not_ consistent with being a magical/fantasy version of our world.

Also, I just realized how that quote starts:

It’s what Tolkien wrote was “the secondary world.” … Tolkien really pioneered that with Middle Earth.

And Middle Earth was flat.

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Damn, we need TWOW to come out.

ADwD Release Day + 809

Dear Diary,

Things are getting bad here, people are losing their minds. No end of crackpot theories and 62 threads about R+L=J. More recently, the author's word on some matters and now the very shape of the planet are being questioned. If The Winds of Winter isn't released soon, I don't think Westeros.org will ever be the same again... :uhoh:

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ADwD Release Day + 809

Dear Diary,

Things are getting bad here, people are losing their minds. No end of crackpot theories and 62 threads about R+L=J. More recently, the author's word on some matters is being questioned and now the very shape of the planet is being questioned. If The Winds of Winter isn't released soon, I don't think Westeros.org will ever be the same again... :uhoh:

:rolleyes: True
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Obviously this theory is a little crackpot, but I don't see why it's insane.

GRRM says Planetos is "a secondary Earth", in exactly the same way Tolkien's Middle Earth is. Middle Earth (well, actually, Arda; Middle Earth is just the region of Arda the eastern continents lie in) is a flat planet, with multiple layers of heavens above it, through which the Sun and stars revolve (until Illúvatar reshapes everything toward the end of the Second Age).

So, why is it ridiculous that the exact same thing could be true of Planetos?

If anyone has any evidence, even indirect, from the novels, or a comment by GRRM, fine. But "wouldn't it be cool if Euron sailed around the world" isn't evidence. And "GRRM said it was like Earth" isn't evidence either, if it's referring to the same quote where GRRM said it was like Middle Earth.

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If Planetos is flat, what keeps the oceans from falling off? How does the sun work?

How are these questions any different from "How do the seasons work?" And we already know the answer to that one:

It's fantasy, man, it's magic.

And if Tolkien never explained what keeps the oceans from falling off his flat world of Ambar or how the Sun works (well, he explained that, but the answer is divine magic), why should GRRM have to?

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I agree. Sounds like a bad sci-fi movie. I have a hard time writing it myself. What would you suggest as an alternative?

Allright Westeros.org message boards.....LISTEN UP. The word "Planetos" literally rhymes with Hitler. Every time I read it I get cancer. By even writing the word "Planetos" you're admitting that high school was kind of a rough time for you. Planetos is drinking orange juice IMMEDIATELY after brushing your teeth. Nothing....and. I. mean. NOTHING. good ever comes from the word Planetos. It sounds like a bad sci-fi movie I'm watching at 1:30 in the morning while I'm absolutely baked. Planetos sounds like some shitty board game you played when the power was out because you didn't have any booze. Planetos is eye bleach. And every time you write it an orphan careens off a cliff.

It's time we rename the ASOIAF world. "But Stan Bamf! Whatever shall we call it!" Let it be known, here and now, right at this very moment, that the world of ASOIAF is no longer colloquially known as "Planetos" but....."GEARTH." Yes....that's right. "GEARTH" For the new name is a portmanteau of "George rr martin" and earth, but also is a double entendre because GRRM is in fact....quite girthy. Yes....GEARTH. All caps. FOREVER AND ALWAYS. GEARTH is freedom, GEARTH is a summer rain, GEARTH is Christmas morning, GEARTH is freshly laundered sheets. IT IS EVERYTHING PLANETOS ISN'T. PLANETOS IS GETTING BRACES FOR THE FIRST TIME. PLANETOS IS RAISINS FOR HALLOWEEN. PLANETOS IS THE WORST!!!!

So starting now....from this moment....we call it GEARTH.

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I always thought the reason they did not like to sail out of sight of land was that navigation in open water is difficult.

OK. That raises the question of why it should be difficult for people sailing the same ships that powered our world's Age of Exploration, but let's accept it as the truth.

How did they then regularly sail across the 200-mile-wide Narrow Sea? Unless you're suggesting that the route from Maidenpool to Braavos goes all the way down the coast, across the Stepstones, and back up?

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I got the name Planetos from these message boards. Previously, I'd only ever seen it called "the planet that Westeros is on" or "the version of Earth in A Song of Ice and Fire" or even longer, clumsier circumlocutions. Putting anything like that in a thread title would make it too long to read in the threads list. If people want to argue about what the planet should be called, can we start a new thread on that instead of derailing this one?

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So starting now....from this moment....we call it GEARTH.

You are a bamf. A BAMF. Like, you're seriously a bamf. That's pretty much the best name for the planet. It's easy, rolls of the tongue and it honors our beloved author in more ways than one.

Gearth it is and Gearth is shall be. Gearth is the greatest name that ever was and that ever will be.

Gearth! Gearth! Gearth!

Tune in next week to find out what's happening on planet Gearth.

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