The Corn Code revision 10, "Advena. Periculum. Mortis." Martins Hendiatris?

[bronnie]

Bran only has 4 chapters in Dance and I would have to look over all the codes in 4 of the books to lock it down. But in Dance there are a lot of Danger codes in Brans chapters. But I don't recall a death code among them, I'll look again. I am not down with Jojen paste, Jojen having his body taken over by Bloodraven or even Bran would seem like a far more practical use of his body. I have wondered about a code for Jojen, but mostly because of Jojen talking about his own death. It will take awhile to go over all Brans chapters though.

Thank you for replying! i went back to read the last chapter but i am still pretty terrible at the whole finding codes lol... i dont believe or more like i hope Jojen didnt become paste, but i guess we will have to wait and see.. =..(

[Ser Creighton]

Chapter 24 crows.

I am sorry I forgot who sent me this code via PM, I get a lot of PM's about the code and have to delete my inbox more often than I like. Not that I mind the PM's but it's hard to keep track of all questions and who sent them.

"Tommen will be the champion, the champion, the champion."

Champion is all in Italics. At first look it looks like a code with a pattern break. The quotation marks are in the wrong place though. The code is close to being a future death code but isn't. It's a typical and simple broken pattern or near death code. Loras is teaching Tommen to joust, and Cersei enters, and gets pissed. This is the beginning of the Queen of mean hating Loras, she then takes Loras for a little walk. The chapter features a lot of the Queen hating on Loras. The code would seem to indicate Loras, the use of Champion is pretty obvious. But you need to look close to realize it is a near death code and not about Tommen who is named in the pattern itself. But italics are Italics and the only words in Italics are champion.

Also of note and forgot this Marg has 3 cousins with her. Probably not a good sign for those ladies, though maybe she has more cousins with her at KL than just three.

Given his sigil I suspect Loras will die on his return, maybe at the trial, maybe some other way, I just know he is not dead yet. Or another code for him can be out there. Now I need to look at the Drogo code that someone posted today. I want to make sure it's his and not the legendary worst big brother ever.

[Ser Creighton]

Thank you for replying! i went back to read the last chapter but i am still pretty terrible at the whole finding codes lol... i dont believe or more like i hope Jojen didnt become paste, but i guess we will have to wait and see.. =..(

No code in his last chapter of Dance, I remember looking for one there and not finding anything. But codes can literally be years before it happens, but future codes are usually followed by codes in the moment when death is happening and that does not happen in Dance. As it stands I am pretty sure Jojen is alive. It's his future that I am interested in and the code for it if there is one.

[Ser Creighton]

found another from aGoT Eddard III(?) when Arya is brought before the king to tell the story of Nymera attacking Joffrey. its after Sansa says she doesnt remember what happened.

probably for Lady, thought it could be for Mycah. thought im unsure about it being a 4 code. i think the other 4 codes had a text break

4 codes do have pattern breaks and the quotation marks isolate the first word and frame the other three together. You see extended patterns like that with anger, and panic in the books most of the time. Some counts get as high as twelve. Knock off the last word and you have a danger code. No matter what happens the first word sets the pattern. So the other three are out of sink with a death code, it's pattern one with a 4 count.

A, a, a, a, The first word of the code always sets the pattern. For a death code the first word must always be identical in each count. "A. A. A." or if you want "Count 1. Count 2. Count 3." Just like a waltz 1, 2, 3. Even if the other words are different it doesn't matter, it's the first word of each count.

One of the reasons I don't do a lot of danger codes is because they are usually very obvious, and danger is around so often you don't need them much to know something is dangerous. If I do post a danger code there is usually significance to it beyond the obvious. Like using them to point out just where the danger is coming from in a not so obvious scene. Helps to spot a threat to a character.

I don't know if Lady got a code or Mycha. I think Lady may have though, I don't remember but I think someone found one for her. But I can't be sure. If I recall I don't think Miclan the smith had a code either, but in WOW he actually has a past code pointing to his death in the past. At least I think it was a code from WOW. Just remember someone posted it on the old thread. I would not worry about patterns like that, the scene itself is obvious as Lady is ordered to be killed and the Butcher boy is shown dead. They may have future codes early on but I have not looked for them.

[Eira Seren]

I think you are right, from a writing standpoint, he probably uses the pattern partly to help him remember characters and the writing. It also helps to establish the characters, by giving them a particular voice. The patterns do seem to reveal more, however.

It also reminds me of Arundhati Roy's The God of Small Things, where the dreamlike, vivid images in the first chapter are a map of the events in the rest of the novel. The child characters (the twins) also play a great deal with words, and GRRM's moments like "Dragonglass. Dragonglass. Dragon glass." remind me of this; one of my favorites from Roy is the "Bar Nowl" that lived in the old canning plant. There's a real joy in playing with the sounds and changing meanings/symbols; there's also (like with the Dragonglass example) a fragmenting or fracturing of the sounds and language. In the case of Roy's characters, this is also important from a postcolonial perspective (English language fractured by a subject living in a country (India) where the English no longer rule, but where their re-enacted or disintegrating systems, institutions and ideas are causing fragmentation in the persons growing up there).. . . but I'm getting off track.

What I think I'm trying to say is that in GRRM, his pattern seems to be about not only prediction, and remembering, but memory. We remember the repeated cry of "Corn, Corn, Corn" and pay attention when we see it again. It evokes memories in us, as readers, just as in other books and settings, language holds different kinds of memories for it's readers and characters. And in this series, he's developed all kinds of history and memories that the characters are haunted by and draw upon, which, thanks to you, is what I finally think is going on with the repeated mentions of places -- the Ruby Ford, Harenhall, Summerhall, Oldstones. . . the stories and the past are all brought up by mere mention of these names. So I think you are onto something with your code, not just as a tool for remembering, but something which helps, through memory, present some really interesting connective tissue. interesting, too, that it comes from sources we least expect -- in code, from a raven, or child narrators. . .

Sorry, I probably shouldn't have had the second glass of wine.

[im317]

i have been reading carefully and that was the first code in the books, so unless they get a past code niether Lady or Mycha got one

also i think having a list of all the death codes and who they are for would be helpful in determining the relative value of charicters, making figuring out new found codes easyier.

[Ser Creighton]

I think you are right, from a writing standpoint, he probably uses the pattern partly to help him remember characters and the writing. It also helps to establish the characters, by giving them a particular voice. The patterns do seem to reveal more, however.

It also reminds me of Arundhati Roy's The God of Small Things, where the dreamlike, vivid images in the first chapter are a map of the events in the rest of the novel. The child characters (the twins) also play a great deal with words, and GRRM's moments like "Dragonglass. Dragonglass. Dragon glass." remind me of this; one of my favorites from Roy is the "Bar Nowl" that lived in the old canning plant. There's a real joy in playing with the sounds and changing meanings/symbols; there's also (like with the Dragonglass example) a fragmenting or fracturing of the sounds and language. In the case of Roy's characters, this is also important from a postcolonial perspective (English language fractured by a subject living in a country (India) where the English no longer rule, but where their re-enacted or disintegrating systems, institutions and ideas are causing fragmentation in the persons growing up there).. . . but I'm getting off track.

What I think I'm trying to say is that in GRRM, his pattern seems to be about not only prediction, and remembering, but memory. We remember the repeated cry of "Corn, Corn, Corn" and pay attention when we see it again. It evokes memories in us, as readers, just as in other books and settings, language holds different kinds of memories for it's readers and characters. And in this series, he's developed all kinds of history and memories that the characters are haunted by and draw upon, which, thanks to you, is what I finally think is going on with the repeated mentions of places -- the Ruby Ford, Harenhall, Summerhall, Oldstones. . . the stories and the past are all brought up by mere mention of these names. So I think you are onto something with your code, not just as a tool for remembering, but something which helps, through memory, present some really interesting connective tissue. interesting, too, that it comes from sources we least expect -- in code, from a raven, or child narrators. . .

Sorry, I probably shouldn't have had the second glass of wine.

No that's a great analogy of the code, yes the repetitive nature would very much be used as a sort of memory trigger for not Just Martin but the readers.

[Ser Creighton]

i have been reading carefully and that was the first code in the books, so unless they get a past code niether Lady or Mycha got one

also i think having a list of all the death codes and who they are for would be helpful in determining the relative value of charicters, making figuring out new found codes easyier.

Yes having all the codes would make things easier, and I have a lot of them, but they are not just characters, they also point to events involving death like the black water, battle of the wall etc...

But the length of the OP would be just to big, several codes are still in revision 8 in the reply section. We did a lot of them, and I have most of them on my PC. It's not just about seeing the codes, but studying the way they are used, the punctuation and the wording. Identifying clues.

Like after looking at the Drogo code poster here out of the text is one thing but you have to see them in the text within the scene they are placed. That is not Drogo's code. That is Vis's code, he is also within the scene it is given in, the wording which is not in italics points to him not Drogo, "I am the blood of the dragon." A common saying for him, which is why I always say I need to double check a code. Also chronological order is important as the codes when taken from thrones to dance have a specific order to them bouncing from one book to another can get confusing or just reading a specific character ignores a lot of the plot line, but when seen in order the plot becomes much clearer. I'll eventually put all the codes in order together but that is a OP that would be 20-30 pages in length. As it's not just the codes but the scene in which they are given. And even when I summarize the scene it is still a massive amount of work and writing for me and I don't have time for that. It's an entire reread of the series, plus stopping to basically write a thesis on all the codes along the way.

[ViserionsFire]

I just noticed where Tyrion is eating crab with Mormont and Alliser Thorne. He’s been jesting Thorne and Thorne asks him to make his japes with steel in his hand. Tyrion replies ..Why, I have steel in my hand, Ser Alliser, although it appears to be a crab fork. Shall we duel?”…. Even the ravens joined in, cawing loudly from above the window. “Duel! Duel! Duel!”

This certainly has significance as Tyrion has just told Mormont that he is leaving the Wall to go south with Yoren.

[im317]

no worries, i know its a lot of work. im reading on my Kindle which lets me take virtual notes ever time a code pops up. when i finish reading the first 4 books(its a 4 book bundle that are all in 1 big e-book) then i will post all the codes i find. i have gotten very good at finding them, just not always interpreting them

[Ser Creighton]

I just noticed where Tyrion is eating crab with Mormont and Alliser Thorne. He’s been jesting Thorne and Thorne asks him to make his japes with steel in his hand. Tyrion replies ..Why, I have steel in my hand, Ser Alliser, although it appears to be a crab fork. Shall we duel?”…. Even the ravens joined in, cawing loudly from above the window. “Duel! Duel! Duel!”

This certainly has significance as Tyrion has just told Mormont that he is leaving the Wall to go south with Yoren.

Yeah that was a perplexing code for a long time. It's a false code, there are a few examples in the books. If you look right above it you will see the word "duel" with a question mark. That is some sort of code breaker, it has happened with 2 other death codes I know of. In which the word in the code is questioned within the scene. It's the only connection I can find between the 3 false codes, and they were always in the moment, always a single word and always had the word questioned within the scene. 2 are in thrones and one is in Dance. But I am not 100 percent sure of what they are. Martin just may be marking something, and puts the questioned word in there to remind himself he didn't off anyone. But given the rarity or that pattern I am not sure what he is doing as I would need more examples to cross compare it to.

[Ser Creighton]

no worries, i know its a lot of work. im reading on my Kindle which lets me take virtual notes ever time a code pops up. when i finish reading the first 4 books(its a 4 book bundle that are all in 1 big e-book) then i will post all the codes i find. i have gotten very good at finding them, just not always interpreting them

Interpreting comes in time, that took me awhile as well. But something I have noticed is that I have gotten really good at spotting his clues which now seem obvious. He likes to play with a lot of dual meanings, the clues are not really hidden they are just subtle and usually in passages where he is being very descriptive with things that would normally seem meaningless. I don't need to know how many bows a character has in there head, wait there three of them. Maybe I do need to know how many bows a character had in her head.

[ViserionsFire]

Yeah that was a perplexing code for a long time. It's a false code, there are a few examples in the books. If you look right above it you will see the word "duel" with a question mark. That is some sort of code breaker, it has happened with 2 other death codes I know of. In which the word in the code is questioned within the scene. It's the only connection I can find between the 3 false codes, and they were always in the moment, always a single word and always had the word questioned within the scene. 2 are in thrones and one is in Dance. But I am not 100 percent sure of what they are. Martin just may be marking something, and puts the questioned word in there to remind himself he didn't off anyone. But given the rarity or that pattern I am not sure what he is doing as I would need more examples to cross compare it to.

Perhaps the question mark pertains to the character. In Tyrion's request of "shall we duel?" Tyrion is directly part of the equation. But later when Tyrion is held at the Eyrie, he requires a stand-in to represent him in his duel of honor. It's Bronn who stands in for Tyrion and the fight is to the death. Tyrion either lives or dies by the outcome. The uncertainty of the outcome, could be questioned and Tyrion's abduction is the catalyst for the Lannister's to enter into war with the Stark's which until that time was a huge threat to not only the Lannister's and Starks, but to the realm in general.

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

Not convinced, but very impressed. Two observations with respect to the examples in your opening post (rev. 9):

1) I do think it's interesting that you've identified a "Hodor" pattern as harbinger of the Red Wedding and the danger presented by the Freys. You didn't mention this in your post, but... "Hodor's real name was Walder." (AGoT, Bran IV)

2) Re: the "Dragon glass" repetition and broken word... it would be a nice parallel if the dagger itself actually broke. Unfortunately, that's not what happens in the book - though it may occur in the televised episode. In the book Sam is unable to pick up the dagger immediately after destroying the Other, because it is so intensely cold. A moment later, however, Grenn picks it up with no problem.

Still feel like much of this is a stretch - but I'll certainly be aware of it as I reread.

[Ran]

I'll tell you all the same thing I told Creighton: there's nothing to this but wishful thinking. When "errors" or "anomalies" are found, notice how efforts are made to paper it over with new clarifications and variations to try and make a rickety whole. I mean, this "code" is nothing more than realizing that George uses one of the oldest possible rhetorical patterns, the rule of three, for effect. Pretty much every other writer will do so as well, because, well, it's effective.

George has spent over 40 years as a professional writer. He has never, ever indulged in cryptograms or other hidden codes. There is no one reason to believe he has done so now.

I'm quite familiar with this sort of thing, having done much the same, years ago, in defense of GUCT -- it became ever more elaborate as holes were poked into it. And it was ultimately pretty futile.

[Lady Arya's Song]

The dragonglass.

Sam hears a crack, like the sound ice makes when it breaks beneath a man's foot and then a screech so shrill and sharp that he went staggering backward with his hands over his muffled ears, and fell hard on his arse. The dragonglass dagger is in the Other's throat. "Obsidean". Sam struggled to his knees. " Dragonglass, they call it. Dragonglass. Dragon glass." Sam gives this knife to Grenn I think.

( Notice the sound is like breaking ice a crack like something shattering) Then the Other melts.

But he has another dragonglass dagger that he took from Lord Mormont's body at Crasters just before he fled. This is the second dagger that shatters when he uses it on Small Paul.

Small Paul the wright scene. " Your're dead!" Sam screamed as he stabbed. "Your're dead, you're dead." Shards flew as the blade shattered on the iron mail beneath the wool.

In this case the dragonglass shattered when he tried to use it against a wright.

This might be Small Pauls death code.

I realize many do not think this is a code at all, and I respect that opinion as its true a rule of three is used in many stories. I happen to think there is merit in the code idea of three and its fun to go through the books and notice what the raven or hodor says in threes.

[Associate Maester]

I'll tell you all the same thing I told Creighton: there's nothing to this but wishful thinking. When "errors" or "anomalies" are found, notice how efforts are made to paper it over with new clarifications and variations to try and make a rickety whole. I mean, this "code" is nothing more than realizing that George uses one of the oldest possible rhetorical patterns, the rule of three, for effect. Pretty much every other writer will do so as well, because, well, it's effective.

George has spent over 40 years as a professional writer. He has never, ever indulged in cryptograms or other hidden codes. There is no one reason to believe he has done so now.

I'm quite familiar with this sort of thing, having done much the same, years ago, in defense of GUCT -- it became ever more elaborate as holes were poked into it. And it was ultimately pretty futile.

I'm well aware of the rule of three. I also happen to think there is more to it than that and that Ser Creighton is onto something here. I don't find sufficient evidence to not think that Martin could be playing with codes and ciphers for fun.

[Rooseman]

I'll tell you all the same thing I told Creighton: there's nothing to this but wishful thinking. When "errors" or "anomalies" are found, notice how efforts are made to paper it over with new clarifications and variations to try and make a rickety whole.

Even though I really want to believe in this hidden code, and I found the topic super interesting: The more I think about it, there more I'm afraid I'll have to agree with this.

You just have to make too big of an effort to explain inconsistencies. Like in the example mentioned a few postings earlier, "Duel! Duel! Duel!" it's unbroken, three exclamation marks and contained within the quotation marks. This should indicate a major death/event in the same chapter. Yet there isn't anything like that, so because of that you have to look outside of the supposed code-boundaries to find a questioned "duel?"

And the other way around: In Joffrey's wedding chapter, you should find a connected "Word! Word! Word!" but there isn't any. There's a future-pattern with "Margaery!" some text "Margaery! Margaery! To the queen!" yet now the inconsistencies are supposed to mean that it actually refers to Joffrey's death? That's a leap I just don't understand. Wouldn't George rather let the people cry "Joffrey! Joffrey! Joffrey!" instead?

The Hound's "Bugger that. Bugger him. Bugger you." should refer to an incoming death of one or more medium-important characters. Yet both the Tickler and Polliver definitely count as minor characters in my book. They're not in the same category as Jeor Mormont, whose death was supposedly foreshadowed by a "Word. Word. Word."-pattern.

Chett, a super-minor character got his "Meat. Meat. Meat"-treatment in the prologue, yet in the Kevan-epilogue there's no pattern at all to be found, even though we should expect that his death is important.

I think this is more of a proof that the human brain is very talented at detecting patterns. If you look for them, you're gonna find them. And if the established rules don't fit the empirical observations, the rules are bent accordingly. The supposed growing complexity of the code as the books go on is perfectly explained by this. There is no code that's growing more complex, you just have to make more exception rules. Sorry, I just can't buy it. Again, I really enjoyed reading your OP and found it very intriguing, but there are too many inconsistencies for me to believe it's any more than wishful thinking.

[Ser Creighton]

I'll tell you all the same thing I told Creighton: there's nothing to this but wishful thinking. When "errors" or "anomalies" are found, notice how efforts are made to paper it over with new clarifications and variations to try and make a rickety whole. I mean, this "code" is nothing more than realizing that George uses one of the oldest possible rhetorical patterns, the rule of three, for effect. Pretty much every other writer will do so as well, because, well, it's effective.

George has spent over 40 years as a professional writer. He has never, ever indulged in cryptograms or other hidden codes. There is no one reason to believe he has done so now.

I'm quite familiar with this sort of thing, having done much the same, years ago, in defense of GUCT -- it became ever more elaborate as holes were poked into it. And it was ultimately pretty futile.

Hey Ran, how you doing? You can always poke a hole in it if you want. But I have been using the same rules for weeks and they work. I have not changed any of the rules for 3 weeks and I apply it the same way. Weather you like it or not thank you for posting. If you like, and I would be honored if you went over the 3 fires prophecy I have in the OP. Though as a rhetorical vice it doesn't really fit into Logos, Pathos or Ethos when he uses the pattern. I will happily go over the codes with you if you want. And the most complex codes give away the most. Take Dragonglass, or Benjen, or even the near death codes. Lets also not forget Martin doesn't just you use three, he uses 3 and death together. Which is consistently symbolic in the books.

Also I had established the danger as the second count and death as the third count long before a poster found this quote "Stranger. Danger. Death." Which is in the 3 count pattern by the way. So just another coincidence.

Like I said like it or don't like it, anytime you want to go over the codes let me know. Cause I would never turn down a chance to talk about the books with you.

ETA Almost forgot when is the world book coming out man? I am totally psyched about it. Amazon says end of October but wiki says unkown.

[Ser Creighton]

The dragonglass.

Sam hears a crack, like the sound ice makes when it breaks beneath a man's foot and then a screech so shrill and sharp that he went staggering backward with his hands over his muffled ears, and fell hard on his arse. The dragonglass dagger is in the Other's throat. "Obsidean". Sam struggled to his knees. " Dragonglass, they call it. Dragonglass. Dragon glass." Sam gives this knife to Grenn I think.

( Notice the sound is like breaking ice a crack like something shattering) Then the Other melts.

But he has another dragonglass dagger that he took from Lord Mormont's body at Crasters just before he fled. This is the second dagger that shatters when he uses it on Small Paul.

Small Paul the wright scene. " Your're dead!" Sam screamed as he stabbed. "Your're dead, you're dead." Shards flew as the blade shattered on the iron mail beneath the wool.

In this case the dragonglass shattered when he tried to use it against a wright.

This might be Small Pauls death code.

I realize many do not think this is a code at all, and I respect that opinion as its true a rule of three is used in many stories. I happen to think there is merit in the code idea of three and its fun to go through the books and notice what the raven or hodor says in threes.

That's a danger code but I have to see it in the books to be sure the text is correct. It's a future danger code actually. Not sure about the first exclamation mark though.