The Corn Code revision 10, "Advena. Periculum. Mortis." Martins Hendiatris?

[Northernmonkey]

"Stranger. Danger. Death." Yeah sure it can add gravitas but it's still fragmented and he still created the three pattern again. A period does not increase the length of a pause it ends a sentence.

It actually does both, because you normally have a longer pause when you end a sentence.

Can you point me at the sentence. The three words are grammatically linked so it should only have one period. It's not 3 different sentences, if he wants a pause and emphasis on each word he has italics and commas.

It is 3 different sentences. You can have one word sentences. And he could have used italics or commas but he chose to use periods. All would be valid, but in my opinion periods are a much better fit. If he had used commas, it would have suggested a slight difference in the tone and intonation of the phrase. Considering the seriousness of the quote, periods make sense.

There is no pause between dragon and glass, as no punctuation exists.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. There clearly is a pause. The fact that he's used a space where he didn't the first two times means that when you read it you insert a pause.

And a hyphen or dash would actually be used when separating the syllables or extending the length of the word.

No, a hyphen or dash could be used. Both would make sense, but the writer chose to use a space.

It's one statement and the statement is totally related to itself. It's one statement again not 3 unrelated statements. That's not three different sentences that are not grammatically related.

The subject of the sentences isn't important. The point is that they are three distinct sentences, even if they only consist of one word.

I give you Mhysa, he can use 3 interjections but he does not need the all caps. You would use italics to show the emphasis on the last word, but it already has 3 exclamation marks, which is a bit much to begin with. And again it is one statement, the Mhysa, Mhysa, Mhysa! Shows a build up of shouting as well, all caps is poor writing in any standard.

Firstly I think I was wrong - I guess "Mhysa, Mhysa, Mhysa!" does make sense. Secondly, you shouldn't say that "he doesn't need all caps," or "all caps is poor writing in any standard." It's something that a lot of writers do, and I don't see any problem with it.

And Martin does in fact use this pattern in the same scene, and also this pattern "Mhysa! Mhysa! Mhysa! 3 varients in the same scene all supposedly having the same meaning, then why change them?

Why not change them? They all make sense, and it mixes things up a bit, in the same way writers try and use different similies, or don't just say "he said" or "she said" all the time. I would say that it would be poor writing if an author used the same speech patterns all the time.

I'd like to say again that I'm not making any judgement on the validity of the corn code. But you claimed that GRRM made several grammatical mistakes, which isn't true. All your examples made perfect sense, and I can see a lot of reasons why he chose to use the punctuation that he did.

[Ser Creighton]

The 3 pattern also implies the Rule of 3 as ran suggested, beginning, middle, and end. Often times these 3 patterns are formed like tricolons except the punctuation is wrong, but are closer to a hendiatris, yet punctuation is wrong you don't use 3 periods with a hendiatris as the statements are inter related and a hendiatris is how you most often show emphasis with a three pattern.

"Stranger. Danger. Death." Is in the the form of a hendiatris, except he used periods. You use commas to show the relationship that they are interrelated to one statement. It's a standard principle in writing, the periods are three individual statements. Now sometimes you do need to use a period, it happens but never three.

Also in the rule of three you have the triple deity much like Dickens used in A Christmas Carol. In that when the deities are named he does not separate them with periods, he uses commas. One of the most common things you see in the rule of three is the comma, because the 3 are always related.

There are many ways to write things and authors all have there own little things they do. But when you look within the scene he alters standard practices to generate the specific patterns and within each scene is the answer to why. Martin is constantly applying the pattern of a hendiatris or a tricolon but altering it. I believe they are all related to that pattern which I might start calling Martins Hendiatris. Because really that is what it is. My belief is he applies that Hendiatris to every 3 pattern and the punctuation helps to alter the meanings to taylor it to a scene.

Lets say I am right, then Martin invented his own Hendiatris, which is a great accomplishment for any writer. This is something some of the greatest writers ever played with. It's not easy to do or apply but they do it. Dickens, Aristotle, Martin Luther King Jr. famed for his speeches. Used this device. One hendiatris related throughout the story, poem, or speech. Why cover it up? Who said he is covering it up? None of them ever covered it up they just never said anything about, it was there plain as day to see. Just like the 3 pattern is plain as day for anyone to see. Once you figure out how he tweaks it to apply it to a scene, you have it.

At least that is my assertion. I will be right or wrong when I know I am right or wrong. I don't claim I am right, I believe in the key and the assertion. Call it whatever you want, I like Corn code cause it began there, it's not accurate but it reminds me of my mistakes and double and triple check.

[Ser Creighton]

"Stranger. Danger. Death." Yeah sure it can add gravitas but it's still fragmented and he still created the three pattern again. A period does not increase the length of a pause it ends a sentence.

It actually does both, because you normally have a longer pause when you end a sentence.

Can you point me at the sentence. The three words are grammatically linked so it should only have one period. It's not 3 different sentences, if he wants a pause and emphasis on each word he has italics and commas.

It is 3 different sentences. You can have one word sentences. And he could have used italics or commas but he chose to use periods. All would be valid, but in my opinion periods are a much better fit. If he had used commas, it would have suggested a slight difference in the tone and intonation of the phrase. Considering the seriousness of the quote, periods make sense.

There is no pause between dragon and glass, as no punctuation exists.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. There clearly is a pause. The fact that he's used a space where he didn't the first two times means that when you read it you insert a pause.

And a hyphen or dash would actually be used when separating the syllables or extending the length of the word.

No, a hyphen or dash could be used. Both would make sense, but the writer chose to use a space.

It's one statement and the statement is totally related to itself. It's one statement again not 3 unrelated statements. That's not three different sentences that are not grammatically related.

The subject of the sentences isn't important. The point is that they are three distinct sentences, even if they only consist of one word.

I give you Mhysa, he can use 3 interjections but he does not need the all caps. You would use italics to show the emphasis on the last word, but it already has 3 exclamation marks, which is a bit much to begin with. And again it is one statement, the Mhysa, Mhysa, Mhysa! Shows a build up of shouting as well, all caps is poor writing in any standard.

Firstly I think I was wrong - I guess "Mhysa, Mhysa, Mhysa!" does make sense. Secondly, you shouldn't say that "he doesn't need all caps," or "all caps is poor writing in any standard." It's something that a lot of writers do, and I don't see any problem with it.

And Martin does in fact use this pattern in the same scene, and also this pattern "Mhysa! Mhysa! Mhysa! 3 varients in the same scene all supposedly having the same meaning, then why change them?

Why not change them? They all make sense, and it mixes things up a bit, in the same way writers try and use different similies, or don't just say "he said" or "she said" all the time. I would say that it would be poor writing if an author used the same speech patterns all the time.

I'd like to say again that I'm not making any judgement on the validity of the corn code. But you claimed that GRRM made several grammatical mistakes, which isn't true. All your examples made perfect sense, and I can see a lot of reasons why he chose to use the punctuation that he did.

They are not three different sentences it's a form of a hendiatris. A chant or a cheer is not 3 different sentences they inter related. You are just repeating the same word over. It's not 3 different statments.

[Northernmonkey]

To put it simply, I still don't believe there's anything wrong with the phrase "Stranger. Danger. Death." I'll try and find some similar examples from other books tomorrow.

I'm not sure if the hendriatis thing is relevant. Just because it's three words in a row, doesn't neccesarily mean its an example of a hendriatis, and if it is, it still doesn't mean it can't use periods.

[Ser Creighton]

To put it simply, I still don't believe there's anything wrong with the phrase "Stranger. Danger. Death." I'll try and find some similar examples from other books tomorrow.

I'm not sure if the hendriatis thing is relevant. Just because it's three words in a row, doesn't neccesarily mean its an example of a hendriatis, and if it is, it still doesn't mean it can't use periods.

Yeah it generally does, cause it's a saying. Anyway actually really enjoyed the discussion, you made some good points. Not everything I said about the punctuation was correct. But your still missing the point. I don't really work with the sounds of what is being said. I work with the pattern itself. While it can be relevant to what I do it's not how the key works. The key uses the punctuation as a framing device, that's it. It doesn't matter what it sounds like or the pace of how it is said. While a word can be a clue to who or what, it does not apply to the meaning of the pattern.

[The Others Take Ya]

Can anyone find a code or anything relating to Jojen Reed? It bugs me the whole jojen paste theory so i was wondering if any1 has found any code or better hints as to what happened to Jojen and Meera

Thank you for replying! i went back to read the last chapter but i am still pretty terrible at the whole finding codes lol... i dont believe or more like i hope Jojen didnt become paste, but i guess we will have to wait and see.. =..(

No code in his last chapter of Dance, I remember looking for one there and not finding anything. But codes can literally be years before it happens, but future codes are usually followed by codes in the moment when death is happening and that does not happen in Dance. As it stands I am pretty sure Jojen is alive. It's his future that I am interested in and the code for it if there is one.

I admit to being super new to the whole code-interpretation thing but I found a pattern of three here in ADWD Bran III

No one ever knew when he was wearing Hodor's skin. Bran only had to smile, do as he was told, and mutter “Hodor” from time to time, and he could follow Meera and Jojen, grinning happily, without anyone suspecting it was really him. He often tagged along, whether he was wanted or not. In the end, the Reeds were glad he came. Jojen made it down the rope easily enough, but after Meera caught a blind white fish with her frog spear and it was time to climb back up, his arms began to tremble and he could not make it to the top, so they had to tie the rope around him and let Hodor haul him up. “Hodor,” he grunted every time he gave a pull. “Hodor, hodor, hodor.”

The moon was a crescent, thin and sharp as the blade of a knife. ...

Then it goes on with Summer digging up the severed arm of a wight and having a snack.

So first I could be easily getting this code pattern wrong because I don't feel up on the details yet. But my guesses are it is a future danger pattern. Not necessarily huge danger. Hint of danger.

Story context wise it could be about them being told not to venture off into the caves by leaf, but that's their danger in the present situation. In terms of the future subject of danger I would have to say it could be Jojen because Bran/Hodor could be symbolically pulling him out of it, but I'm just throwing potential metaphor spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

Off topic, but it seems like all of them are pretty depressed being stuck in that cave. I wonder if Hodor being all smiley already clued Jojen and Meera in to the fact that he was being skinchanged by Bran. Meera caught a blind fish. An allusion to Arya's story perhaps?

[Ser Creighton]

I admit to being super new to the whole code-interpretation thing but I found a pattern of three here in ADWD Bran III

Then it goes on with Summer digging up the severed arm of a wight and having a snack.

So first I could be easily getting this code pattern wrong because I don't feel up on the details yet. But my guesses are it is a future danger pattern. Not necessarily huge danger. Hint of danger.

Story context wise it could be about them being told not to venture off into the caves by leaf, but that's their danger in the present situation. In terms of the future subject of danger I would have to say it could be Jojen because Bran/Hodor could be symbolically pulling him out of it, but I'm just throwing potential metaphor spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

Off topic, but it seems like all of them are pretty depressed being stuck in that cave. I wonder if Hodor being all smiley already clued Jojen and Meera in to the fact that he was being skinchanged by Bran. Meera caught a blind fish. An allusion to Arya's story perhaps?

Well when asked about a code or pattern it was for a death code. And you got the code right, Jojen I would say is the focus. But I am thinking about changing the name of that pattern. I often call it a whisper of danger, so I get a lot which danger is it and I think it's this kind of danger. But I think I have a better term than whisper of danger and it's stranger inspired. I am thinking of calling this "A. a. a." the ill omen or bad omen code. As it doesn't lose the meaning and is less likely to get confused with the other danger code.

So how does the future bodes ill for Jojen sound? I going to go look at the passage a little bit. But yeah it seems to involve Hodor or Hodor/Bran grunting or pulling and maybe blind or can't see. That knife really stands out but that is a different scene. The Pit probably will be involved, and maybe we find out why taking a human skin is an abomination.

[alienarea]

First you agreed with the "Asha dies" code, then you took it back.

Regardless of your corn code theory, Asha will die in TWoW. Bet?

[Little Balerion]

An author of the calibre of GRRM does not need punctuation marks in his text to serve as some kind of cryptic code. Punctuation and italics are nothing but tools to help people read the text better, they don't contribute to the story. Besides every author uses punctuation to craft his own style of writing. James Joyce who wrote Ulysses, kept punctuation to a minimum in his story.

These authors are just following the rule of 3.

Harry Potter:

“Hagrid!” Harry called, holding on to the bike for dear life. “Hagrid—Accio Hagrid!”

Tresasure Island:

"Rum," he repeated. "I must get away from here. Rum! rum!"

Inheritance Cycle, Christopher Paolini

"No, no, no, no, Eragorn muttered. He can't be dead. He can't, he can't, he can't….

[Esa1996]

I know the scene but do you remember the chapter number. The first code is actually what I called whisper of danger, or stranger. The first word sets the pattern and that is the uppercase "Die." It's a future pattern, I would have to look at the other to actually know what it is. I'll go see if I can find it. Thanks for posting that.

Chapter is Jon VI, and it ends on page 420 of my version of ADWD.

[WeaselPie]

Danger code - Wine merchant to Dany:

“I have sweet reds, from Lys and Volantis and the Arbor. Whites from Lys, Tyroshi pear brandy, firewine, pepperwine, the pale green nectars of Myr. Smokeberry browns and Andalish sours, I have them, I have them.”

[Ser Creighton]

First you agreed with the "Asha dies" code, then you took it back.

Regardless of your corn code theory, Asha will die in TWoW. Bet?

I didn't take it back I said I had to look at the scene to be sure. It's not about weather she dies or not, the question was, is that her code? Will she die in WOW? Maybe I still haven't done all the codes. But she will have one if she dies. I did think it was her code when looking at it out of the scene.

Why do you want me to say Asha will die? Have you found every 3 pattern in the books? When I lock it down I will let you know, that's the best I can do. She may die at the battle involving fire, I just find it weird that Martin would use that word for her code. It bugs me a little bit.

[Ser Creighton]

An author of the calibre of GRRM does not need punctuation marks in his text to serve as some kind of cryptic code. Punctuation and italics are nothing but tools to help people read the text better, they don't contribute to the story. Besides every author uses punctuation to craft his own style of writing. James Joyce who wrote Ulysses, kept punctuation to a minimum in his story.

These authors are just following the rule of 3.

Look three examples from 3 books, would like 150 examples from 5 books? If you don't like it don't read it. Prove me wrong, apply the code.

If you don't read the OP and apply the code how do you expect to understand it. I tell you that I am making an assertion about what I think Martin is doing. What I think, you seem to be speaking for him. Martin doesn't have too? Who says he is doing it because he has too, you ever think he might be doing it because he wants too. He doesn't have to kill as many people off in his books as he does, he does it because he wants too.

Tell you what you give me all the 3 patterns from TI and Harry Potter all there variants and we will compare notes. Last I checked neither of those authors is writing his books.

[Ser Creighton]

Danger code - Wine merchant to Dany:

I have sweet reds, from Lys and Volantis and the Arbor. Whites from Lys, Tyroshi pear brandy, firewine, pepperwine, the pale green nectars of Myr. Smokeberry browns and Andalish sours, I have them, I have them.

Near death code. "I" setting the pattern, but the text break is verbal, and the quotation marks are not right, so while it looks like a death code actually, as the "I's" all match. It lacks the correct punctuation for a death code. Tell me I forget, what happened there?

Also notice while there is a lot of text between the first use of "I have" and the next two, he never isolated "I" or "I have" so he is not generating a future pattern just a near death code. Which he does do in his future patterns of near deeath codes. See the Jon Snow near death code and the Myrcella near death codes to see how he does it.

[Little Balerion]

Look three examples from 3 books, would like 150 examples from 5 books? If you don't like it don't read it. Prove me wrong, apply the code.

If you don't read the OP and apply the code how do you expect to understand it. I tell you that I am making an assertion about what I think Martin is doing. What I think, you seem to be speaking for him. Martin doesn't have too? Who says he is doing it because he has too, you ever think he might be doing it because he wants too. He doesn't have to kill as many people off in his books as he does, he does it because he wants too.

Tell you what you give me all the 3 patterns from TI and Harry Potter all there variants and we will compare notes. Last I checked neither of those authors is writing his books.

I think you mean 'to' and not 'too'.

[Ser Creighton]

I think you mean 'to' and not 'too'.

Oh no, you got me. I don't know how I will survive "to and too," but I will try and find a way. Thanks for the reply. You got those patterns yet? You tried to apply the code yet? You look into the use of death and 3 as a theme in the series?

If don't use the key, or try it, how would know if it works or not? Apply the key to the patterns if you want to talk about it with me. If not, enjoy Harry Potter. Spoiler Alert, Harry wins.

[WeaselPie]

Near death code. "I" setting the pattern, but the text break is verbal, and the quotation marks are not right, so while it looks like a death code actually, as the "I's" all match. It lacks the correct punctuation for a death code. Tell me I forget, what happened there?

Also notice while there is a lot of text between the first use of "I have" and the next two, he never isolated "I" or "I have" so he is not generating a future pattern just a near death code. Which he does do in his future patterns of near deeath codes. See the Jon Snow near death code and the Myrcella near death codes to see how he does it.

What happened in the scene you mean? Robert had put a price on her head... Dany is at the market, and when the wineseller realizes who she is, he offers her the poisoned wine, but Jorah realizes this and prevents her from taking/drinking it. The wine merchant is later killed, by being force-marched naked behind Dany and her Silver.

Near death code, got it. Thanks, this is really insightful as I keep reading and rereading.

[Northernmonkey]

Yeah it generally does, cause it's a saying. Anyway actually really enjoyed the discussion, you made some good points. Not everything I said about the punctuation was correct. But your still missing the point. I don't really work with the sounds of what is being said. I work with the pattern itself. While it can be relevant to what I do it's not how the key works. The key uses the punctuation as a framing device, that's it. It doesn't matter what it sounds like or the pace of how it is said. While a word can be a clue to who or what, it does not apply to the meaning of the pattern.

I was deliberately trying to not mention the pattern because all that stuff still stands. But if there is a code then it would have to work on two levels, as a code and to fit in with the grammar and writing of the book.

[Ser Creighton]

I was deliberately trying to not mention the pattern because all that stuff still stands. But if there is a code then it would have to work on two levels, as a code and to fit in with the grammar and writing of the book.

You are 100 percent correct, he just makes it a little wonky sometimes, not even all the time, just now and then. Usually the wonky patterns are the easiest, while Corn is probably the hardest. For some odd reason I find Hodor easier even though the patterns are identical, probably because it's a name and he will go lower case with it. So I guess that helps, plus Hodor usually interacts a lot more than the bird in terms of what he is doing in a scene.

Though the Raven does on occasion look right at the subject which I find awesome and kind of scary. I don't just base this theory on the patterns though, it's based heavily on the three and death theme in the books.

I did the house sigils as one way he uses the theme and I am currently looking at the fleet Jon sent to Hardhome. the base of the fleet is 3 groups of three ships, 3 from Bravos which are the ships I am interested in, 3 from the watch, and 3 from Lys. So far it's been a train wreck. I look at any use of 3 in the books for the most part.

[Lady Arya's Song]

Caught this the other day while doing a re-read. I am not sure but it looks like something applied to Walder Frey.

AFFC. Cersei IV Council pg 245-246

“The next matter . . . we have had a letter from Lord Frey putting forth some claims . . .” “How many lands and honors does that man want?” snapped the queen.

“His mother must have had three teats.” (Qyburn explains that in KL there are those suggesting that the crown was complicit in Lord Walder's crime.)

“Lord Walder must soon face the Father’s judgment. He is very old. Let the sparrows spit upon his memory. It has nought to do with us."

"No," said Ser Hary's. " No," said Lord Merryweather. "No one could think so," said Pycelle. Lord Gyles coughted.

Not sure if I have this one right. A, A, A, All three No's begin with cap but the last phrase has added words.

I am not sure if Lord Walder is the object or its the three Ser Harys, Lord Merryweather, and Pycelle.