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Sansa Stark will ultimately win The Iron Throne


Spartan64Destiny

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Jon didn't make Alys marry against her will, and Alys didn't seem perturbed about the marriage as she didn't show any signs of unhappiness or distress.

Jon did think of sending Arya somewhere to the Free Cities to avoid her being married off to one of Stannis's men. I don't think he would force Sansa to marry against her will either after what's been through.

Crying her eyes out or wringing her hands, maybe not. Bitter? Maybe just a tad:

“And now they are here, on our side of the Wall. Driven from their mountain fastness and into my bedchamber.” She smiled a wry smile. “It is my own fault. My lord father told me I must charm your brother Robb, but I was only six and didn’t know how.”

...Not that Jon cares either way, just as he seems unconcerned with Sansa's forced marriage to Tyrion:

Jon drank with the rest. Whether Alys Karstark would find any joy in her marriage he could not say, but this one night at least should be one of celebration.
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So to summarize the Sansa for Queen theory:



Step 1: Become good at the game of thrones


Step 2: ??????


Step 3: Queen



Seriously, her paths to being Queen are terrible.



1. Her husband is alive and well and will never be King


2. She's wanted for regicide


3. If she gets out of 1 and 2 she's going to get married off to Harry the Heir


4. She has no legitimate claim to the Iron Throne or even semi-legitimate. Her claim to Winterfell is predicated on her brothers being dead, which they aren't. I imagine at least Rickon will be revealed in TWOW.



The only hope Sansa has is to be the Great Widow. Tommen dies, Myrcella dies, Cersei dies. Jamie dies. Tyrion gets Casterly Rock then dies leaving Sansa some vague claim to the West. Robert Arryn dies. Harry gets the Eyrie. Sansa marries Harry, he dies. Sansa gets the Vale. Her brothers stay "dead" or actually die and she gets the North. She marries LF, LF dies and she gets the Riverlands. Still no claim to the Iron Throne but she would have a lot of support from a lot of different places theoretically.


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Crying her eyes out or wringing her hands, maybe not. Bitter? Maybe just a tad:

...Not that Jon cares either way, just as he seems unconcerned with Sansa's forced marriage to Tyrion:

Jon was beyond the Wall when Sansa was married Tyrion, and had no way of knowing about the marriage until he came back to the Wall. By the time he likely heard of the marriage, Sansa had already been whisked away from KL.

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So to summarize the Sansa for Queen theory:

Step 1: Become good at the game of thrones

Step 2: ??????

Step 3: Queen

Seriously, her paths to being Queen are terrible.

1. Her husband is alive and well and will never be King

2. She's wanted for regicide

3. If she gets out of 1 and 2 she's going to get married off to Harry the Heir

4. She has no legitimate claim to the Iron Throne or even semi-legitimate. Her claim to Winterfell is predicated on her brothers being dead, which they aren't. I imagine at least Rickon will be revealed in TWOW.

The only hope Sansa has is to be the Great Widow. Tommen dies, Myrcella dies, Cersei dies. Jamie dies. Tyrion gets Casterly Rock then dies leaving Sansa some vague claim to the West. Robert Arryn dies. Harry gets the Eyrie. Sansa marries Harry, he dies. Sansa gets the Vale. Her brothers stay "dead" or actually die and she gets the North. She marries LF, LF dies and she gets the Riverlands. Still no claim to the Iron Throne but she would have a lot of support from a lot of different places theoretically.

I know you're not advocating this, but this would be the worst thing to ever happen ever. I'm serious, it would just be so contrived, and there is no way it could be written to make any sense lol.

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I know you're not advocating this, but this would be the worst thing to ever happen ever. I'm serious, it would just be so contrived, and there is no way it could be written to make any sense lol.

Dude, GRRM is a strange cat and he's one of your most unpredictable writers ever, the man makes sense of crap that doesn't make any sense (for exp: The Lost series Finale and Twighlight Zone...lol!), that's why I'm calling it, Sansa Stark will sit The Iron Thrown as ruler of Westeros.

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If there were job interviews for sitting on the Iron Throne she might have a chance, though -if i remember well- she has been called the worst liar in King's Landing. While she protects herself with political answers, everyone around her knows exactly that this is what she's doing. But there are no job interviews for it and I don't think she is playing the game at all, she's a pawn that the real players consider valuable, currently being played by Littlefinger. She seems to be headed towards being Lady of the Vale, but i'm sure we'll see some nice twists in the Vale in the future books.



Maybe she could somehow be married to the king that wins the throne in the end (maybe to get the North back into the realm), but then she still wouldn't be the one on the throne.

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I believe Sansa will hold some power over the realm of MT. and Vale. but that is about as far as it will go. She is a Tully descendant and the Vale has suffered through Lysa why not Sansa.

Vale has suffered through Lysa? I am sorry, but regardless the fact she killed Jon, she did absolutely the best for Vale. No matter whether I hate her, and I consider her crazy piece of work, she saved Vale from war, poverty and destruction... I don't think that any of the Vale lord ever looked at Lysa as someone who made Vale suffer in any way.

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I strongly doubt that the IT will survive as an institution. What happened in Westeros is madness, with the war of Five Kings. Many villages burned, many men carried into war, many broken men... and they still have to face Aegon (and maybe Dany), so it'll be like more lords recruiting more men, or children, or women... If the Others manage to break through Moat Cailin, it'll be complete desolation. There will be no kingdom to rule over. Anarchy will spread all over the Seven Kingdoms, and new goverment forms will be developed to partly take the former power of lords/crown.


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I don't understand the argument that Sansa has no claim to the thrown. So what? Aegon the conqueror had no right to the throne. If she could take it successfully through military action she'd stil be Queen regardless of if it was hers by right. Unless it's been stated that whoever ends up on the throne in the end is legitimate, in that case ignore everything I just said haha.



Do I think this is what will happen? No. I'm holding out for a Queen in the North/Regent of the North type situation for Sansa. I get the overwhelming sense that Sansa is being molded into becoming a real player. How I see this going down is that she follows Littlefinger's plan, marries Harry Hardyng (who I pray to the old gods and the new is a loving husband to Sansa), and becomes Lady of the Vale. This gives her control of the Knights of the Vale and I'm assuming the remaining Northern lords would rally around a surviving Stark heir. That would give her the power to at least put up a good fight against the Freys and Boltons. Assuming she defeats both these houses she can re-take Winterfell and make a stand against the South which is pretty unstable at the moment.



When you bring Danaerys, (f)Aegon, and Jon Snow into the mix it starts to get complicated. There's the possibility that Aegon is unmasked as a Blackfyre and kicked out of the runnging but I doubt that. Maybe he dies some other way or maybe he marries Dany and joins the two Targaryen bloodlines. Either way I see Dany on the throne in the South. Who (if anyone) will sit beside her is another question. I loathe the idea of Jon and Danaerys being together although I see how it could work if R+L=J is true. At the same time however I do believe Jon is AA/TPtwP so I expect a powerful position in the kingdoms for him. As stated above she could also marry (f)Aegon, which I would like more.



Whoever Sansa has to deal with in the South will result in the outcome for her. Either the ruler could let her have half the kingdom (if Jon is on the throne in some way he could swing that) or they make her regent. IMO Bran will never return to Winterfell to rule it, I believe he will stay with Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest. I can't see Rickon being regent either but I can't figure out how he'd be put aside (hopefully he won't be killed). Arya will be off murdering people but I do think she will visit Sansa now and again.


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Throne seems a bit of a stretch both in plot and her character.



But here is a question - what does Littlefinger's power come from? Does he have all the money he defrauded from Robert/borrowed from the Iron Bank in the name of the Crown? Has he translated it into any armed force? Because although I don't really buy into the idea of Sansa as the sorcerer's apprentice, if he is depending on her strategic marriage/s to give him the armed forces of the Vale, then she only has to knock him off to get those forces for herself. And how long term is his plan - because as Harry's widow alone she doesn't inherit the Vale or have any power in it, she would have to be pregnant or have Harry's child and be the mother of the new Lord of the Vale. So, Littlefinger needs to marry her to Harry, knock off Robert, and have her have a baby. There is the matter of her marriage to Tyrion but I guess if the Vale were prepared to ignore that (she could argue it was invalid and not consummated) then it doesn't really matter. Just need to find a Septon prepared to marry them.



So, is this really his plan? Obviously he also wants to use her claim to the North as well and have the Vale and the North. The Vale might be able to conquer the North which is weakened. His plan is dependent on brainwashing her or appealing to her own desire for power, and on her not seeing that once he has organised all this, he is disposable. Would he allow her to have that power and If he killed her, would he be accepted as still being the Lord Protector of the Vale and new guardian of Harry's child?

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GRRM has been as random as life when it comes to fate of his characters. However the pattern I see is this.



Character X has some dream and thinks that a certain things are neccessary to get that dream (or it is an impossible dream). But because of randomness of fate X realizes that those certain things are no more achieavle but instead takes thsoe characters to a different path through which those characters might actually get the dream.



See the pattern



**Dany**


Dream: Go home


How: With help of her brother and Khal's army


Instead: Brother is dead, Khal is dead but she is not mother of dragons, not interested in going to westeros but rather understanding the duties and responsibilites of a queen.



**Tyrion**


Dream: Impress his father and others, become powerful man worthy of respect.


How: Gaining knowledge, acting smart.


Instead: Gets jailed, his family betrays him. Learns the deep hatred his father has for him and eventually kills him. But now he is near Aegon and has a good chance at playing important role he dreamed of.



**Bran**


Dream: Be a hero. A knight. A warrior.


How: Learn the art of war.


Instead: Loses legs, gains sight. Now beyond the wall but with a good chance of becoming a hero.



**Arya**


Dream: Not to be a lady but a warrior.


How: By learning to handle a sword.


Instead: Sees her father and brother and mother being killed brutaly. Learns pain of violence. Becomes a deadly assasin but by paying a price of giving up her identity.



Now let us put Sansa into persepctive.



Dream: To be a lady. Queen. Have Knights in shining armour around her. Be loved by someone strong.


How: By learning all the customs and arts. By training herself to be a good queen and give children.


Instead: Learns that courage, bravery is not always in the knights. Her prince is cruel coward. The man who loves her is ugly, not a knight but a brave a courageous man.



I will nto be surprised if Sansa comes very close to become Queen but she will surely have to pay some price for it like everyone else.

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Now let us put Sansa into persepctive.

Dream: To be a lady. Queen. Have Knights in shining armour around her. Be loved by someone strong.

How: By learning all the customs and arts. By training herself to be a good queen and give children.

Instead: Learns that courage, bravery is not always in the knights. Her prince is cruel coward. The man who loves her is ugly, not a knight but a brave a courageous man.

I will nto be surprised if Sansa comes very close to become Queen but she will surely have to pay some price for it like everyone else.

Problem with this is that her dream is not to be a lady or a Queen, therefore we can't speak about objective goal of hers to become Queen. And furthermore, all those beatings and rape threats, and later being married to dwarf weren't enough price for anything?

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Problem with this is that her dream is not to be a lady or a Queen, therefore we can't speak about objective goal of hers to become Queen. And furthermore, all those beatings and rape threats, and later being married to dwarf weren't enough price for anything?

Not in this series. Where whippings, mutilations, disfigurements, amputations, consummated forced marriages to warlords and psychopaths, and actual rapes abound, mere beatings, an unconsummated forced marriage, and rape threats are chump change.

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Not in this series. Where whippings, mutilations, disfigurements, amputations, consummated forced marriages to warlords and psychopaths, and actual rapes abound, mere beatings, an unconsummated forced marriage, and rape threats are chump change.

Actually it was price for her naivete in this series. Or perhaps you suggest she should have been raped to settle some score?

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I know you're not advocating this, but this would be the worst thing to ever happen ever. I'm serious, it would just be so contrived, and there is no way it could be written to make any sense lol.

I agree completely. I think Sansa is far less important than people think. She's a window into LF's ambitions at this point. Being able to manipulate Robert Arryn isn't proof that she's ready to play the actual game of thrones. Ned Stark could manipulate Sweet Robin.

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Actually it was price for her naivete in this series. Or perhaps you suggest she should have been raped to settle some score?

Ashlesha suggested that if Sansa was to achieve something greater than her current status--"very close to becoming Queen"--then she'd have to pay a price. You then suggested that Sansa had paid a sufficient price through her previous sufferings--beatings, rape threats, marriage to a dwarf--for anything she might accomplish. I was merely making the point that that might be true in another series, but not ASOIAF, where Sansa's sufferings are chump change, and aren't really much of a "price" in the grand scheme of things.

Reading comprehension! It's awesome!

...It stands to reason, therefore, that if Sansa is to achieve some type of greatness, she's going to have to pay some great price, in addition to that she's already paid (which isn't all that great in comparison), just like every other character in this series has to pay a great price to achieve anything worth having.

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Ashlesha suggested that if Sansa was to achieve something greater than her current status--"very close to becoming Queen"--then she'd have to pay a price. You then suggested that Sansa had paid a sufficient price through her previous sufferings--beatings, rape threats, marriage to a dwarf--for anything she might accomplish. I was merely making the point that that might be true in another series, but not ASOIAF, where Sansa's sufferings are chump change, and aren't really much of a "price" in the grand scheme of things.

Reading comprehension! It's awesome!

...It stands to reason, therefore, that if Sansa is to achieve some type of greatness, she's going to have to pay some great price, in addition to that she's already paid (which isn't all that great in comparison), just like every other character in this series has to pay a great price to achieve anything worth having.

And what price previous Kings and Queens paid for becoming monarchs. I understand the notion of paying some price for our actions, and Sansa paid it. With watching her father die, being constantly beaten, with rape threats, marriage to dwarf, deaths of her family members... She paid it enough, so if Martin wants her to become a Queen, he has already made it painful enough. If she is to become a Queen, she will become one realizing how unfair life is and she will have all the life experience Joffrey gave her...

I understand that for some readers blinded by Sansa hate, she should have been raped, beaten and tortured more for her "crimes", so they would decide that she is fit to become a Queen. But, alas, behind that hate there is nothing more than shallow arguments of how things work "on grand scale"

Reading comprehension? Hmm, you should try it dear... Your arguments lately seem a bit too off to be considered seriously...

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