R + L = J v 63

[Agamemnon]

OK! we have the theory talked to death, honestly I think if this thread reaches 100 GRRM will just say fuck it and give us a Wylla PoV where she remembers birthing Jon just to have a good laugh at the forum raging that follows.

[PromisedPrince694]

OK! we have the theory talked to death, honestly I think if this thread reaches 100 GRRM will just say fuck it and give us a Wylla PoV where she remembers birthing Jon just to have a good laugh at the forum raging that follows.

:bowdown:

[Old-Growth]

Howland Reed + unspecified other person(s) present at the Tower of Joy, and then there's of course Bloodraven who knows and Bran who has the potential to find out.

Some also entertain the notion that there's something of significance hidden in Lyanna's tomb, a Targaryen marriage cloak for example.

And in Meereen, Tyrion and Ser Barristan if they learn about the HotU vision of the blue flower in a chink in a wall of ice.

[King Tyrion VIII]

Random, but I wanted to share:

My girlfriend has seen all three seasons of the show, but only just started reading the books recently. It's kind of hard not to talk about things a little with her, but I've made a concerted effort to avoid anything that might lead us to R+L=J. Over the weekend, I noticed she was dog-earing certain pages and kept flipping back and forth. When I asked what she was doing, her response was, "I might be crazy, but I think Lyanna is Jon's mom." I was totally blown away that she could have figured that out before even finishing the book, but then she said, "But I hope not. There's already too much incest in this story." Yup, my girlfriend thinks N+L=J.

Promise me Ned. Promise me you won't tell anyone what we did.

:P

[King Tyrion VIII]

:agree:

King Tyrion VIII in the ballroom ftw!

:D

:bowdown:

[Ghost's Shadow]

Promise me Ned. Promise me you won't tell anyone what we did.

:P

Foreshadowing for Jon/Arya? :P

[King Tyrion VIII]

Foreshadowing for Jon/Arya? :P

Lol. Different roads lead to the same castle ;)

[Alia of the knife]

Lol. Different roads lead to the same castle ;)

Very true, and I if I haven't said it before, I'm glad you are contributing here too. I know you contribute a lot to the Heretics thread, and while I enjoyed it, I'm afraid I'm not as knowledgeable on the Celtic Pantheon of gods, though I did learn a lot from that thread. :)

[Alia of the knife]

On the subject of Jons "identifier," whether it's a person, or thing, my question is do we know how Illyrio came to have the dragons eggs he gave Dany?

I'm speculating if Rhaegar wasn't going back and forth to Summerhall to find a clutch of dragons eggs? Perhaps the same eggs Summerhall was burned down for?

If so, then perhaps he meant those eggs for his children.

Perhaps Jon did get one that was buried with Lyanna, and then the others fell into Illyrios hands by way of Varys.

[King Tyrion VIII]

Very true, and I if I haven't said it before, I'm glad you are contributing here too. I know you contribute a lot to the Heretics thread, and while I enjoyed it, I'm afraid I'm not as knowledgeable on the Celtic Pantheon of gods, though I did learn a lot from that thread. :)

Thank you :) After so much time in Heresy I feel kinda out of my element here. I'll have to spend more time over here on the main board :)

[King Tyrion VIII]

On the subject of Jons "identifier," whether it's a person, or thing, my question is do we know how Illyrio came to have the dragons eggs he gave Dany?

I'm speculating if Rhaegar wasn't going back and forth to Summerhall to find a clutch of dragons eggs? Perhaps the same eggs Summerhall was burned down for?

If so, then perhaps he meant those eggs for his children.

Perhaps Jon did get one that was buried with Lyanna, and then the others fell into Illyrios hands by way of Varys.

Well if the dragon eggs were stone I don't expect them to have been destroyed in the fire. So Im sure someone found them. Would they really be difficult enough to find that it took several trips?

Weren't there dragons eggs in Dunk and Egg? What happened to those?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

On the subject of Jons "identifier," whether it's a person, or thing, my question is do we know how Illyrio came to have the dragons eggs he gave Dany?

I'm speculating if Rhaegar wasn't going back and forth to Summerhall to find a clutch of dragons eggs? Perhaps the same eggs Summerhall was burned down for?

If so, then perhaps he meant those eggs for his children.

Perhaps Jon did get one that was buried with Lyanna, and then the others fell into Illyrios hands by way of Varys.

That's interesting, if Targs were commonly given eggs in their cradles, the three eggs could have been Rhaegar's, Aegon's and Rhaenys' (alternatively Viserys'-- something tells me it was only boys that got eggs in TMK, but I don't have it here to check) that Varys retrieved from their apartments in KL prior to or during the Sack.

Jon would still have his own hidden somewhere else (my money's on Lyanna's tomb) since he was never in KL.

[King Tyrion VIII]

I'm very intrigued by the possibility of a dragon egg being in Lyanna's tomb. But I'm wondering if we will ever see anyone open it.

[Alia of the knife]

Thank you :) After so much time in Heresy I feel kinda out of my element here. I'll have to spend more time over here on the main board :)

I promise I won't say "teat." :D

Well if the dragon eggs were stone I don't expect them to have been destroyed in the fire. So Im sure someone found them. Would they really be difficult enough to find that it took several trips?

Weren't there dragons eggs in Dunk and Egg? What happened to those?

That's a good question.

I was rather thinking that perhaps they were lost in the rubble.

If you think what a massive structure a country seat, or another castle is, if it collapsed in a fire, something as indiscreet as nature could make it, like an egg, might take awhile to find.

That's interesting, if Targs were commonly given eggs in their cradles, the three eggs could have been Rhaegar's, Aegon's and Rhaenys' (alternatively Viserys'-- something tells me it was only boys that got eggs in TMK, but I don't have it here to check) that Varys retrieved from their apartments in KL prior to or during the Sack.

Jon would still have his own hidden somewhere else (my money's on Lyanna's tomb) since he was never in KL.

I think that's right, so perhaps the third egg that should have gone to Rhaenys, Varys sent to Illyrio for "Faegon." Even if he is a Blackfyre, he is still a dragon.

But Jon could have have his own as well.

I'm very intrigued by the possibility of a dragon egg being in Lyanna's tomb. But I'm wondering if we will ever see anyone open it.

I have a feeling that someone will end up being Jon himself after he learns of his parentage. I imagine he would want to go back to the Crypts and see the statue of his mother in a new light.

[King Tyrion VIII]

Alia of the Long Knife (I know but Ive always read it like that for some reason :P):

Lol thank you for sparing me the torture :P

That's true about the dragon eggs. I never stopped to think just how big Summerhall wouldve been. Probably lots of almost impossible to move pieces of stone too.

Jon and Mance are the only two candidates I can think of for opening Lyanna's tomb. Ive yet to convince myself Jon will go to Winterfell. If he does it might not be until ADOS.

[Ser Creighton]

Alia on the R+L=J with a Knife. The clues were there all along.

[Ser Creighton]

Alia of the Long Knife (I know but Ive always read it like that for some reason :P):

Lol thank you for sparing me the torture :P

That's true about the dragon eggs. I never stopped to think just how big Summerhall wouldve been. Probably lots of almost impossible to move pieces of stone too.

Jon and Mance are the only two candidates I can think of for opening Lyanna's tomb. Ive yet to convince myself Jon will go to Winterfell. If he does it might not be until ADOS.

Well when the true brothers Blackfyre get together, Varys, and Illyrio, they can get a lot done. Though I would say Alia is right, with eggs, the White egg all ways strikes me as the egg from Whitewalls, and the black and red a Blackfyre egg and of course nobody cares about the Green egg, thats why as a dragon he is so angry, he was never loved as an egg.

I also think you are correct if Jon does get to the crypt, it will be well down the road. Though my speculation on the crypt dream is that Bloodraven, blocked Jon from having a prophetic dream. That it was in fact him telling Jon he did not belong there. Either that or he was trying to tell him a message about the Starks. I think he influenced the Dragons being born in Danys dream, and prevented Jon from seeing something he was not ready for at the time.

Bloodraven seems to be preparing the children of death, all three of them.

[FrozenFire3]

That's interesting, if Targs were commonly given eggs in their cradles, the three eggs could have been Rhaegar's, Aegon's and Rhaenys' (alternatively Viserys'-- something tells me it was only boys that got eggs in TMK, but I don't have it here to check) that Varys retrieved from their apartments in KL prior to or during the Sack.

Jon would still have his own hidden somewhere else (my money's on Lyanna's tomb) since he was never in KL.

I suspect some girls were given dragon eggs too. The example of Elaena comes to mind. According to this ssm, Elaena's most cherished possession was a dragon's egg whose stony shell showed the same colors as her hair (a platinum white with a bright golden streak down the middle). The resemblance to Viserion's egg is striking btw, and Brown Ben Plumm's (with his drop of dragon princess' blood) affinity to Viserion suggests that the two eggs are indeed one and the same.

[Ygrain]

I suspect some girls were given dragon eggs too. The example of Elaena comes to mind. According to this ssm, Elaena's most cherished possession was a dragon's egg whose stony shell showed the same colors as her hair (a platinum white with a bright golden streak down the middle). The resemblance to Viserion's egg is striking btw, and Brown Ben Plumm's (with his drop of dragon princess' blood) affinity to Viserion suggests that the two eggs are indeed one and the same.

BTW, it would be interesting to know what colours Meraxes and Vhagar were - I don't think that Drogon being black and the biggest of the current three is coincidence, and I also wonder about their genders - according to the wiki, Vhagar may have been female, so the dragons' genders were actually a reversal of Aegon's trio.

- Oh, and in the same SSM: "Daena was expert at riding at the rings, though she was never allowed to joust in an actual tourney." I'm sure it has ben pointed out before but repetition never hurts, right? :-)

[corbon]

- Oh, and in the same SSM: "Daena was expert at riding at the rings, though she was never allowed to joust in an actual tourney." I'm sure it has ben pointed out before but repetition never hurts, right? :-)

:cool4:

Not pointed out enough it seems. I don't recall ever seeing this brought up at the appropriate times...